Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[Starry Night]

I meant that it was a convenient find in her vehicle maybe. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Alohaj]

I'm trying to really keep an open mind, and have been doing some reading on suicide, everything I am reading said there is SOME indicator, at least ONE. So I don't know how to discount that.

 

[ANZAC]

"Time spent as a patrol officer is usually mandatory before becoming eligible to pursue the position of detective. While a great deal of knowledge is learned on the job, further training and education in investigative techniques are required to make detective. This training and education are specified by the department that employs the aspiring detective. Much of a detective's time is spent on investigation and paperwork, but they are expected to maintain a certain level of physical fitness."

I'm bad at computers and don't know how to add the link to this, but the website is www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo.com

To give credit where credit is due 

That's not really true in this area. There's no firm training or educational requirement for detectives at most sheriff offices here (or WA State Patrol) beyond the basic training to become a commissioned law enforcement officer (eg CJTC) and the field training for the specific agency.

Detective is really considered an assignment, although there is a small salary increase attached to it.

However, of course, additional continuing ed is always encouraged.

These links look like a scraper site but the content is kosher (BBM):

WSP: http://www.detectiveedu.org/washington/
"Applicants must be a U.S. citizen and 21 or older for an entry-level police officer who may then have an opportunity to promote to detective or criminal investigator after a period of 3 – 5 years."

King County: http://www.detectiveedu.org/washington/king-county/
"The path towards detective jobs with the King County sheriff’s office starts by becoming an entry-level deputy sheriff. Being assigned as a detective usually requires deputies to demonstrate quality service over the course of three and five years. As deputies gain experience, they will have plenty of opportunities to work closely with detectives and gain valuable on-the-job experience."

 

[PLT]

This happened on a Sunday (Easter) and I am wondering if the transit area is popular with drug users on the weekends? The night before CD went missing was Super Bowl (correct?) I have been wondering if someone was searching for money or strung out from the night before. We discussed these theories and most felt that in those situations the tendency isn't to move the victim but to rob and flee (I agree) but the article caught my eye because of location and I went back to the crime of opportunity scenario.


http://mltnews.com/mountlake-terrace-police-blotter-march-26-30/

Officers assisted with a medical call in the Mountlake Terrace Transit Center. A man was slumped over inside a car in the parking lot. Responding officers noticed a small metal tube and two pieces of tin foil on the passenger seat with a white residue on them. Responders were able to wake the subject and get him to exit the vehicle. He said he had been smoking methamphetamine. He was dazed and took several minutes to become coherent. Responders determined he did not need medical assistance. The suspected drug paraphernalia was placed into evidence.

 

[Sun009]

How close in proximity was this bag tnear her work?

Was it 151 hours since she was last seen?

 

[brandi]

How close in proximity was this bag tnear her work?

Was it 151 hours since she was last seen?

There is no answer to that since we don't know what bag it is....

 

[jbelle]

Irks me too, and makes me wonder, why a few people on here are trying SO hard to convince everyone it was suicide when it is such a stretch to do so. It just doesn't add up for suicide, yet there's a pervasiveness to explain it all away with statistics. Statistics can be distorted to suit the situation.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck... It's most probably a duck. And this duck doesn't look, sound or walk like suicide. If one were to put probabilities on suicide/homicide, what would they be? 50/50, 20/80? 80/20? IMO I'd go with 10/90

I see just as many who are trying SO hard to convince everyone it was murder.
We all have different opinions on the different cases here, and that is OK.
I could be wrong, I have been enough times before!

I actually find that people who think this was a murder are more frustrated with those of us who think it's suicide. And I completely understand that. Suicide is
still a big taboo. In a lot of cases I follow here that turn out to be suicide, there are a lot of people upset with those that initially bring up the suicide theory. ANZAC has
taken a lot of pretty harsh comments in stride and I appreciate all our verified insiders.

Anyways, no vested interests here. It's such a strange case that I could not definitely rule out a murder, and I'm not even in the US.
The biggest reason I believe it was suicide is that there is no defensive wounds. I have read autopsies of healthy adults who were asphyxiated and there was always a violent struggle and wounds to prove it. People don't just pass out in 10 seconds. I also feel if this was murder, the murderer would have to know Cheryl forgot her badge, when she would notice her badge missing, that she would stop her car where she did to text/look for it, and that she wouldn't just head home
directly to grab said badge.

Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean that they are being rude or that they are trying to steer the investigation or public opinion for some nefarious reason. It's just what we do here, we discuss.
And, you see a Mallard duck but I might see an Eider. We'll have to wait and see, I have a feeling that we will be waiting sometime until we know what happened that day. That is the part I hate for her family.

 

[ANZAC]

This happened on a Sunday (Easter) and I am wondering if the transit area is popular with drug users on the weekends? The night before CD went missing was Super Bowl (correct?) I have been wondering if someone was searching for money or strung out from the night before. We discussed these theories and most felt that in those situations the tendency isn't to move the victim but to rob and flee (I agree) but the article caught my eye because of location and I went back to the crime of opportunity scenario.

If I am right about the location of her car on 58th street, there is a park right there, Veteran's Memorial Park. It is certainly possible there was a tweaker there, they love parks and wooded areas.

Still not clear how they would have moved her 1.5 miles. A tweaker isn't going to say "get in my car" they'd just rob them there and take off, generally speaking. Also tweakers generally stick to petty theft, break and enter etc. Not saying they are not capable of murder in the right circumstances, but generally that they spend most of their time on robbery to support their habits. If the body had been discovered in the park itself, that would make the tweaker theory more likely IMHO.

 

[Master Gee]

I see just as many who are trying SO hard to convince everyone it was murder.
We all have different opinions on the different cases here, and that is OK.
I could be wrong, I have been enough times before!

I actually find that people who think this was a murder are more frustrated with those of us who think it's suicide. And I completely understand that. Suicide is
still a big taboo. In a lot of cases I follow here that turn out to be suicide, there are a lot of people upset with those that initially bring up the suicide theory. ANZAC has
taken a lot of pretty harsh comments in stride and I appreciate all our verified insiders.

Anyways, no vested interests here. It's such a strange case that I could not definitely rule out a murder, and I'm not even in the US.
The biggest reason I believe it was suicide is that there is no defensive wounds. I have read autopsies of healthy adults who were asphyxiated and there was always a violent struggle and wounds to prove it. People don't just pass out in 10 seconds. I also feel if this was murder, the murderer would have to know Cheryl forgot her badge, when she would notice her badge missing, that she would stop her car where she did to text/look for it, and that she wouldn't just head home
directly to grab said badge.

Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean that they are being rude or that they are trying to steer the investigation or public opinion for some nefarious reason. It's just what we do here, we discuss.
And, you see a Mallard duck but I might see an Eider. We'll have to wait and see, I have a feeling that we will be waiting sometime until we know what happened that day. That is the part I hate for her family.

Agreed. I wanted to believe that this was murder as well. As the "facts" of the case became clear, one by one the possibilities of murder (in my opinion) one-by-one came off of the table. And while I cannot fathom why or how someone could take their own life in any manner, I have came to believe it was just that. SO..why did I want so bad to believe it was murder....ok, I'm twisted I guess but 1) Murder takes the responsibility (perceived or real) off of CD and her family. Spares them the "how couldn't you have known?" 2) Not as much stigma with murder as suicide 3)It's fun trying to catch the bad guy. There are probably no bad guys with suicide. So that's why I was a "last-gasper" with the murder theory.


Unfortunately, for those who still believe its murder, I really don't hear any evidence from them. Just ideas and "but what about..." No evidence. sorry. With that, I still hope I'm wrong in a way.

 

[Master Gee]

If I am right about the location of her car on 58th street, there is a park right there, Veteran's Memorial Park. It is certainly possible there was a tweaker there, they love parks and wooded areas.

Still not clear how they would have moved her 1.5 miles. A tweaker isn't going to say "get in my car" they'd just rob them there and take off, generally speaking. Also tweakers generally stick to petty theft, break and enter etc. Not saying they are not capable of murder in the right circumstances, but generally that they spend most of their time on robbery to support their habits. If the body had been discovered in the park itself, that would make the tweaker theory more likely IMHO.

I thought for a while that maybe a couple of tweekers, tried to strong arm her and she ended up in their car somehow, plastic bag over the head to conceal their identity and her suffocating quickly before being dumped in the creek. Don't really believe it now..but

 

[Dushi]

Agreed. I wanted to believe that this was murder as well. As the "facts" of the case became clear, one by one the possibilities of murder (in my opinion) one-by-one came off of the table. And while I cannot fathom why or how someone could take their own life in any manner, I have came to believe it was just that. SO..why did I want so bad to believe it was murder....ok, I'm twisted I guess but 1) Murder takes the responsibility (perceived or real) off of CD and her family. Spares them the "how couldn't you have known?" 2) Not as much stigma with murder as suicide 3)It's fun trying to catch the bad guy. There are probably no bad guys with suicide. So that's why I was a "last-gasper" with the murder theory.



Unfortunately, for those who still believe its murder, I really don't hear any evidence from them. Just ideas and "but what about..." No evidence. sorry. With that, I still hope I'm wrong in a way.

So well stated. I appreciate that explanation . Its not always clear why we feel the way we feel about things

 

[maggieo]

IMHO, statistics have a limited use in cases like this one--and for a large portion of cases that make it to Websleuths--because they're already highly abnormal. Murder or suicide involving a take-out bag are both basically unheard of. Almost everything in this case is contrary to what you'd look for in either case.

If you hear the sound of hooves, statistics say it's probably a horse. But that doesn't matter if a zebra just escaped from a zoo.

(That said, I'm leaning toward suicide myself, if only because in my experience suicides can be really weird and inexplicable. I had a neighbor--a single lady-- who hung her laundry on the line, then went inside and killed herself. Why hang out the laundry??? People do baffling things when they're in that extreme state of mind.) (But I'm far from discounting the idea of murder.)

 

[kammiemc]

Couple different things Stryker (her son) has said---She only carries a wallet (not found,nor phone) and the bag was not from a restaurant that she frequented and it wasn't a fast food joint. Just throwing that out there, not trying to correct you )

I took from his post the bag was not from her "favorite" restaurant/fast food. But I could have interpreted it wrong! Also semantics are at play--places like Chipotle or Mod pizza are quick service restaurants, but some people might not call them fast food.

 

[brandi]

:happydance: this is me for the new format!

 

[Dushi]

:happydance: this is me for the new format!

Yes!! Like it

 

[Occam's Zebra]

SNIPPED FOR BREVITY

Unfortunately, for those who still believe its murder, I really don't hear any evidence from them. Just ideas and "but what about..." No evidence. sorry. With that, I still hope I'm wrong in a way.

If it's suicide, why would she get rid of her phone and wallet? I get turning off the phone and maybe even disposing of it.... but if I'm going to kill myself why would I get rid of my wallet? It's not like I'd be unidentifiable without it.

I still think it's murder, and the evidence has not been made public because they haven't arrested anyone. LE knows way more than they publicize.

All IMHO.

 

[Master Gee]

If it's suicide, why would she get rid of her phone and wallet? I get turning off the phone and maybe even disposing of it.... but if I'm going to kill myself why would I get rid of my wallet? It's not like I'd be unidentifiable without it.

I still think it's murder, and the evidence has not been made public because they haven't arrested anyone. LE knows way more than they publicize.

All IMHO.

If it's suicide, why would she get rid of her phone and wallet? Heck, I'm semi-well adjusted and the snakes that crawl around in my head..sheesh.. You're asking to explain why distraught people do what they do. We may never know, perhaps she didn't want to be identified when found, perhaps it was a connection to the real world that she was trying to escape from or perhaps she thought they were sending her coded messages from Pluto....or... perhaps the cops have them and we do not know. Still not evidence of Murder to the contrary supports someone trying to go away.

 

[darring21]

If it's suicide, why would she get rid of her phone and wallet? Heck, I'm semi-well adjusted and the snakes that crawl around in my head..sheesh.. You're asking to explain why distraught people do what they do. We may never know, perhaps she didn't want to be identified when found, perhaps it was a connection to the real world that she was trying to escape from or perhaps she thought they were sending her coded messages from Pluto....or... perhaps the cops have them and we do not know. Still not evidence of Murder to the contrary supports someone trying to go away.

Except those that believe it is suicide (I lean to believing suicide) have no evidence of suicide, either. Their only argument is that there is no evidence of murder so it must be suicide. There is evidence that suggests it is not murder (no violence, no witnesses, etc.) just as there is evidence it is not suicide (no known mental health issues, text saying she would be 10 minutes, nobody witnessing her walking, etc.).

The only evidence is self-inflicted finger cuts and that is really weak without knowing more. What evidence do you know that points to suicide?

 

[TeaTime]

I think the suicide theory does a great disservice to Mrs. DeBoer and allows her killer to remain free.

 

[Master Gee]

Except those that believe it is suicide (I lean to believing suicide) have no evidence of suicide, either. Their only argument is that there is no evidence of murder so it must be suicide. There is evidence that suggests it is not murder (no violence, no witnesses, etc.) just as there is evidence it is not suicide (no known mental health issues, text saying she would be 10 minutes, nobody witnessing her walking, etc.).

The only evidence is self-inflicted finger cuts and that is really weak without knowing more. What evidence do you know that points to suicide?

The bag loosely "secured" around her head with NO evidence of a struggle, restraint or injury or torn bag. LE apparently collecting evidence on the east side of the culvert yet no evidence of entry on that side. (I think she entered on the west and walked through the culvert to be concealed) Glasses folded on or near her body. Razor blade in her pocket (never in my life). Cuts on her fingers (test cuts) Badge left at home, phone and wallet disposed of..all leading toward NOT wanting to be identified (for whatever reason) AND surprisingly enough, the fact that she wasn't seen walking to the culvert leads me to believe that she was very careful about her path that day. and the lack of any trace of another being involved..not a fibre, print on the bag?Scuff?Smudge?..... Evidence? .. not strong..but preponderance..