Stripehaven
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They're still widely available in Snohomish County, though. But I've never seen them used as rain hats
Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7
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They're still widely available in Snohomish County, though. But I've never seen them used as rain hats
kammiemc
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If you don't mind me asking, is "here" a city? Small town? What region? I am curious about the plastic-bag-as-hat practice. Clearly it's a thing.
If this happened in Esperance, I'd be confused as to who the lead investigator would even be. Snohomish County Sheriff, I guess. Its weird being in Edmonds, but its called Esperance, in parts. If you call 911, you gotta wait for the sheriff, you need animal control? It doesn't exist. If the animal that you needed animal control for was 1 block away, then animal control exists.
Eileen730
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They're still widely available in Snohomish County, though. But I've never seen them used as rain hats
We would just use it to get from the car to the shop or restaurant without getting our head wet.
If it was raining and had to get from my car to the shop I work in and there was a plastic bag in the car id use it. When it rains here the heavens open up.
Eileen730
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Stripehaven
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I lived there once! Many years ago. I still don't know if it's in unincorporated SnoCo. It's not actually in the Edmonds City Limits, is it? I guess I could google. Weird little spot. Now I live right near Brier but in another small unincorporated pocket. The sheriff handles animal complaints
I wondered how the agencies would handle Cheryl's case. Since the creek flows through the culvert into King County, I wondered who all would be searching for evidence.
One thing about the bag -- LE said it was "loosely secured". In my mind, that is different than "loosely over the head". So either it was partially tied, or that's where the zip tie was, or something was done to "loosely" secure it. I think based on that wording it is unlikely a) the bag was already in the creek and just caught on her head b) she was using the bag to protect from rain (plus it wasn't raining....). If the bag was "loosely secured" it was either done by CD or another person.
The only times I know of would be poison+gun, drugs+hanging, drugs+stabbing... but to be fair I am not sure what they actually put on the COD. I don't usually see them directly, I hear from a detective usually after the autopsy so it is a bit third hand, and even then, they typically just get a call from the ME (I assume they read the paperwork later). Drugs we usually hear about after the autopsy, poisons there is usually a container near the body, at least has been my experience.
I've never heard of anything like drowning + asphyxiation as two "causes of death". Technically drowning is asphyxiation because you don't have sufficient oxygen in your lungs. That might be one explanation why both were listed. One way to confirm that would be to look at other SnoCo drownings and see what the ME lists.
Let's turn this around -- they definitely can tell death by drowning vs a body that was dropped in the water, even if the lungs fill with water. So in my mind, it tells me the ME determined drowning was the primary cause of death. So listing asphyxiation either means "drowning, a type of asphyxiation" or that the bag ALSO interfered with her ability to breathe.
I would remind the family members here (Stryker) that they have standing under WA state law to request a copy of the ME report/autopsy. There may be more detail there that would save endless speculation here. However, I also respect their right to not dig into it, or if they do, to keep it private.
dizzychick
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Question: if they found water in lungs and bag on head, will the ME go on and do a complete autopsy ? or just leave it at that knowing the water and evidence in the pulmonary area was the cause of death?
It's great to apply many different ways of thinking, around what we do know, right now. That's when balanacing out scenarios & putting them up against each other, works. If a situation doesn't make sense to me, I like to eliminate all the other ways, that it wouldn't make sense to me either, hope things start to make sense on their own. Its amazing how a person's theory, a persons skill set, triggers the next persons way of thinking about something. I respect everyone's opinions, that's how you can respectfully weigh things against your own, and someone else's and so on and so on.
I hope that I, or anyone else doesnt offend the Deboer family in anyway. I can't speculate or know what does, I just can tell they're tough. I sincerely hope peoples skills/knowledge/compassion/imaginations/creative/critical/logical/combined forces of thought, has helped them tremendously in any helpful way....
....I hope that's the only reason they're here
I hope that I, or anyone else doesnt offend the Deboer family in anyway. I can't speculate or know what does, I just can tell they're tough. I sincerely hope peoples skills/knowledge/compassion/imaginations/creative/critical/logical/combined forces of thought, has helped them tremendously in any helpful way....
....I hope that's the only reason they're here
"The culvert she was found in is large, Wilson said. Investigators who are 6 feet tall or taller were able to walk and stand inside. A creek runs through the culvert. It is about 2 to 3 feet deep. From the east, the culvert is blocked by blackberry bushes and other shrubs that were not disturbed, but from the west, where most of the traffic would be in that area, the opening is clear."
http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/
It wasn't raining on Feb 8th.
Eileen730
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Yea i found that out lol
So why were we all talking about the rain that day?
Would that also mean the water levels inbthe culvert would have been lower.
Is there a ledge of any kind in these culverts?
dizzychick
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oh gosh, I can see how that looks self induced...I dont know why I dont want to accept she could have done this to herself...bless her heart, I dont know what to say
Not necessarily. Here is the temp and rain map. It rained both before and after Cheryl disappeared.
"DeBoer’s body was found lying face down in a culvert near the intersection of Cedar Way and 244th Street Southwest with a bag loosely secured over her head. It was a take-out bag from a fast food restaurant she frequented, Wilson said."
http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/
When I read the ME's description:
The cause of death is asphyxia due to plastic bag over head and freshwater drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined.
http://snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4431
I think of someone who is suffocating and then their head is submerged in water.
The cause of death is asphyxia due to plastic bag over head and freshwater drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined.
http://snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4431
I think of someone who is suffocating and then their head is submerged in water.
dizzychick
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I saw that report of the loosely secured but when you add a twist tie or whatever that device was called it begins to look more deliberate ofcourse in the back of my mind im thinking someone else could have secured the tie.. will this mystery ever be solved???
dizzychick
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