Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[otto]

When I read the ME's description:

The cause of death is asphyxia due to plastic bag over head and freshwater drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined.

http://snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4431

I think of someone who is suffocating and then their head is submerged in water.

Apparently if someone puts a bag on the head, it is possible to asphyxiate. Parents know to keep plastic bags out of reach of young children for that very reason. If someone put a bag over the head next to a creek, falling into the cold water may cause that person to gasp (kind of a shock from the cold water). If that happened underwater, that gasp would result in taking water into the lungs, and drowning.

The manner of death is undetermined because it's still unknown whether this is a suicide or a homicide.

 

[otto]

I saw that report of the loosely secured but when you add a twist tie or whatever that device was called it begins to look more deliberate ofcourse in the back of my mind im thinking someone else could have secured the tie.. will this mystery ever be solved???

A zip-tie was found in the area. The bag may have been loosely secured, but it was firmly enough fastened that it remained on her head even though she was face down in the creek and in the culvert for 6 days.

 

[Yvettea]

will Washington release the complete autopsy report ? I think Texas and I know Florida does

Autopsies are confidential in Wa.

 

[Yvettea]

The manner of death is undetermined because it's still unknown whether this is a suicide or a homicide.

I agree with you as to what caused her death. As to manner of death can you see any way this could be murder unless she was accompanied into the culvert?

 

[otto]

I agree with you as to what caused her death. As to manner of death can you see any way this could be murder unless she was accompanied into the culvert?

I can see this as a murder, but given the facts we have, I think it has to be someone close to her.

I think Cheryl forgot her badge, and that she texted her carpool. Then something happened.

My initial thought was that Cheryl's car was used to transport her to the culvert. It was 7:02AM and the Park and Ride lot, where she met the carpool, was not full, yet her car was parked in the overflow area. She was rushing that morning, and that's not the time that we decide to park farther away if we don't have to. We have also heard that the spot behind her car was not occupied until 8AM.

If her car was used by someone else, leaving it in the overflow lot increases the probability that something happened after she got on the train.

The animal blood is a problem. The scenario would be that Cheryl parked, texted her friend, saw an injured animal, retrieved the animal, looked for a plastic bag to put under the animal, and then something happened. Perhaps she was carjacked and the animal is also in the creek.

 

[Yvettea]

I can see this as a murder, but given the facts we have, I think it has to be someone close to her.

I think Cheryl forgot her badge, and that she texted her carpool. Then something happened.

My initial thought was that Cheryl's car was used to transport her to the culvert. It was 7:02AM and the Park and Ride lot, where she met the carpool, was not full, yet her car was parked in the overflow area. She was rushing that morning, and that's not the time that we decide to park farther away if we don't have to. We have also heard that the spot behind her car was not occupied until 8AM.

If her car was used by someone else, leaving it in the overflow lot increases the probability that something happened after she got on the train.

The animal blood is a problem. The scenario would be that Cheryl parked, texted her friend, saw an injured animal, retrieved the animal, looked for a plastic bag to put under the animal, and then something happened. Perhaps she was carjacked and the animal is also in the creek.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

I wonder if LE has considered that Cheryl could have been murdered anywhere along the creek then her body lowered into the culvert?

 

[Koshka]

I totally agree. I was raised in the south and have lived in the Seattle area since I was 15. I am probably the fussiest (love that word) NW girl you could run across, yet I do nothing to particularly protect my hair or makeup. It would be more hassle than it is worth. And aside from thinking of an elderly woman who has her hair "set" a few times a week, I can't imagine, nor have I ever seen, anyone use a plastic bag to cover their hair - especially in the greater Seattle area.

bbm

4th generation Washingtonian here, and I completely agree. I've never covered my head with a plastic bag nor has anyone I've known there.

 

[kdg411]

will Washington release the complete autopsy report ? I think Texas and I know Florida does

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=68.50.105
RCW 68.50.105
Autopsies, postmortems—Reports and records confidential—Exceptions.
(1) Reports and records of autopsies or postmortems shall be confidential, except that the following persons may examine and obtain copies of any such report or record: The personal representative of the decedent as defined in RCW 11.02.005, any family member, the attending physician or advanced registered nurse practitioner, the prosecuting attorney or law enforcement agencies having jurisdiction, public health officials, the department of labor and industries in cases in which it has an interest under RCW 68.50.103, or the secretary of the department of social and health services or his or her designee in cases being reviewed under RCW 74.13.640.
(2)(a) Notwithstanding the restrictions contained in this section regarding the dissemination of records and reports of autopsies or postmortems, nor the exemptions referenced under RCW 42.56.240(1), nothing in this chapter prohibits a coroner, medical examiner, or his or her designee, from publicly discussing his or her findings as to any death subject to the jurisdiction of his or her office where actions of a law enforcement officer or corrections officer have been determined to be a proximate cause of the death, except as provided in (b) of this subsection.
(b) A coroner, medical examiner, or his or her designee may not publicly discuss his or her findings outside of formal court or inquest proceedings if there is a pending or active criminal investigation, or a criminal or civil action, concerning a death that has commenced prior to January 1, 2014.
(3) The coroner, the medical examiner, or the attending physician shall, upon request, meet with the family of the decedent to discuss the findings of the autopsy or postmortem. For the purposes of this section, the term "family" means the surviving spouse, state registered domestic partner, or any child, parent, grandparent, grandchild, brother, or sister of the decedent, or any person who was guardian of the decedent at the time of death.

 

[Yvettea]

The culvert she was found in is large, Wilson said. Investigators who are 6 feet tall or taller were able to walk and stand inside. A creek runs through the culvert. It is about 2 to 3 feet deep. From the east, the culvert is blocked by blackberry bushes and other shrubs that were not disturbed, but from the west, where most of the traffic would be in that area, the opening is clear.
http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

From these comments it seems apparent investigators believe Cheryl entered the culvert alive and from the west. The blackberry bushes blocking the culvert overgrew even the opening to the culvert so it wasn't visible from above. Once Cheryl reached the east side, after wading though 2 - 3 feet of rushing water, she may have had nowhere to sit or lie down while asphyxiating with a loosely secured plastic bag.

There would be nothing to prevent the current from carrying her to the west side once she drowned unless she happened to be in a calm area (if there was one) or her body was hungup on something.

The scenario is hard to imagine.

I wonder if LE has considered that Cheryl could have been murdered anywhere along the creek then her body lowered into the culvert?

Apparently LE is convinced there are no indications of homicide. From the same article quoted above:

“What we know is the physical evidence, or lack thereof, discovered at either scene does not support that there was evidence of a robbery, assault, abduction or homicide,” Wilson said, referring both to where DeBoer’s car was found at a Mountlake Terrace Park and Ride overflow lot on Feb. 8 and where her body was discovered at Cedar Way and 244th Street Southwest on Feb. 14.

Maybe there is a third scene.

 

[cs2012]

I can see this as a murder, but given the facts we have, I think it has to be someone close to her.

I think Cheryl forgot her badge, and that she texted her carpool. Then something happened.

My initial thought was that Cheryl's car was used to transport her to the culvert. It was 7:02AM and the Park and Ride lot, where she met the carpool, was not full, yet her car was parked in the overflow area. She was rushing that morning, and that's not the time that we decide to park farther away if we don't have to. We have also heard that the spot behind her car was not occupied until 8AM.

If her car was used by someone else, leaving it in the overflow lot increases the probability that something happened after she got on the train.

The animal blood is a problem. The scenario would be that Cheryl parked, texted her friend, saw an injured animal, retrieved the animal, looked for a plastic bag to put under the animal, and then something happened. Perhaps she was carjacked and the animal is also in the creek.

Which would explain why animal control was seen at the creek where and when they found her body..i still would like to explore why else theyd be there.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

What an unusual method of suicide. I still don't buy this theory. Statistics show that firearms, hanging and poisoning account for 92.3% of all suicides. Suffocation is most often done with carbon monoxide and poisoning is most often with drugs. However, "poisoning and firearm were the most common mechanisms for middle-aged women". And although middle age Americans demonstrate an increase in suicide, CD does not appear to fit the profile IMO. I have not read every post but such a complicated 'plan' seems so unlikely. There's too much effort involved and a lack of privacy.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-rates-increase-dramatically-among-middle-aged-americans/

 

[otto]

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

I wonder if LE has considered that Cheryl could have been murdered anywhere along the creek then her body lowered into the culvert?

If she was murdered prior to being put into the creek, drowning would be a cause of death. Given that it was asphyxia and drowning, we know that she was still breathing (albeit perhaps unconscious) when she entered the water. If she drowned, then water was found in her lungs. The plastic bag over her head probably adds the asphyxia ruling.

She could have been asphyxiated prior to being put into the water alive. That has happened before.

 

[otto]

From these comments it seems apparent investigators believe Cheryl entered the culvert alive and from the west. The blackberry bushes blocking the culvert overgrew even the opening to the culvert so it wasn't visible from above. Once Cheryl reached the east side, after wading though 2 - 3 feet of rushing water, she may have had nowhere to sit or lie down while asphyxiating with a loosely secured plastic bag.

There would be nothing to prevent the current from carrying her to the west side once she drowned unless she happened to be in a calm area (if there was one) or her body was hungup on something.

The scenario is hard to imagine.

Apparently LE is convinced there are no indications of homicide. From the same article quoted above:

Maybe there is a third scene.

I have a problem with assuming that Cheryl voluntarily entered 2-3 feet deep cold water from the West and entered the culver to commit suicide. I am of the opinion that she went into the creek on the East, and that her body floated to the West after 6 days.

In fact, I would accept that her body entered the creek a bit upstream of the culvert.

Investigators are assuming that because her clothing is not dishevelled, and there are no signs that she struggled in the culvert, it must be a suicide. However, if she was overcome in her car with a plastic bag on her head, transported to Lyon Creek, and put into the water while she was unconscious, we would have the same result: clothing not dishevelled, no fight marks from trying to survive in a culvert, asphyxiation, and drowning.

 

[otto]

Which would explain why animal control was seen at the creek where and when they found her body..i still would like to explore why else theyd be there.

Which would explain why they looked for evidence upstream, but that does not rule out that a squirrel, puppy, or cat carcass would pass through the culvert system. An animal that may have been in Cheryl's car could be anywhere.

 

[Yvettea]

My initial thought was that Cheryl's car was used to transport her to the culvert. It was 7:02AM and the Park and Ride lot, where she met the carpool, was not full, yet her car was parked in the overflow area. She was rushing that morning, and that's not the time that we decide to park farther away if we don't have to. We have also heard that the spot behind her car was not occupied until 8AM.

I wondered about this too, parking on 58th St. One thought that occurred to me is that Cheryl had agreed to meet someone very briefly and that was the location that was chosen, in front of the library. But she forgot her badge and needed to go home so there was no time for the meeting. One of two things could've happened the person she was meeting agreed to take her home and they would talk on the way or Cheryl decided she would honor the meeting and catch a ride after the 10 minutes going to work without her badge.

If she went with someone voluntarily it would explain why there were no signs of struggle as many have said before.

 

[otto]

What an unusual method of suicide. I still don't buy this theory. Statistics show that firearms, hanging and poisoning account for 92.3% of all suicides. Suffocation is most often done with carbon monoxide and poisoning is most often with drugs. However, "poisoning and firearm were the most common mechanisms for middle-aged women". And although middle age Americans demonstrate an increase in suicide, CD does not appear to fit the profile IMO. I have not read every post but such a complicated 'plan' seems so unlikely. There's too much effort involved and a lack of privacy.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-rates-increase-dramatically-among-middle-aged-americans/

It is a very bizarre scenario where it is alleged, per the suicide theory, that this 53 year old woman poured animal blood on the floor of her car, cut her fingers with a razor blade, and then walked 1.5 miles on a Monday morning (instead of going to work), climbed into a dark, cold creek in a culvert (unseen by the traffic that is apparently frequent and regular), put a bag over her head, and decided to die ... in a drainage ditch.

The fact that there were no drugs in her system, and there is no evidence of searching suicide methods or locations on her computer, are strongly against suicide.

 

[otto]

I wondered about this too, parking on 58th St. One thought that occurred to me is that Cheryl had agreed to meet someone very briefly and that was the location that was chosen, in front of the library. But she forgot her badge and needed to go home so there was no time for the meeting. One of two things could've happened the person she was meeting agreed to take her home and they would talk on the way or Cheryl decided she would honor the meeting and catch a ride after the 10 minutes going to work without her badge.

If she went with someone voluntarily it would explain why there were no signs of struggle as many have said before.

I don't think that it's reasonable to add information when there is no known factual basis. For example, if Cheryl had a planned meeting on 58th at 7:05AM that morning for a legitimate reason, there would be evidence in her email or her texts.

Regarding signs of a struggle, if a bag is put over someone's head, they might break a nail, but I doubt there are any other outward signs of a struggle. Cheryl doesn't look the type to have concerns about breaking a nail. That is, short nails don't break in a struggle, and there would be no real signs of a struggle if someone put a plastic bag over her head except if she was in the 3% who experience petechia.

Do we know if she had petechia and visible blood vessels in her eyes after death?

 

[Yvettea]

I don't think that it's reasonable to add information when there is no known factual basis. For example, if Cheryl had a planned meeting on 58th at 7:05AM that morning for a legitimate reason, there would be evidence in her email or her texts.

Regarding signs of a struggle, if a bag is put over someone's head, they might break a nail, but I doubt there are any other outward signs of a struggle. Cheryl doesn't look the type to have concerns about breaking a nail. That is, short nails don't break in a struggle, and there would be no real signs of a struggle if someone put a plastic bag over her head except if she was in the 3% who experience petechia.

Do we know if she had petechia and visible blood vessels in her eyes after death?

I don't think the ME said if she had petechia.

 

[otto]

Did Cheryl have an appointment that was not above board at 7:05AM that morning? If so, who?

 

[otto]

I don't think the ME said.

The ME did not specify whether petechia was present, but the family would know.

Regardless, the absence of petechia does not mean that someone was not suffocated with a plastic bag on the head.

Denis Radar delighted in suffocating his victims, allowing them to come to, and then suffocating them again. One of his first victims was a 9 year old girl who was hung by the neck and just able to hold herself up with her tippy toes. She ultimately died.