Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[Starry Night]

We're asking a lot from Cheryl in order to believe this was suicide. We have to believe that she was mentally ill, that she plotted to conceal her intent to commit suicide by pouring animal blood in her car and planting blood (cuts to fingers), that she avoided being seen for 1.5 miles during rush hour, that she chose a polluted creek, and especially a dark culvert, to breath her last breath and see her last memory.

It's not logical, but she was an analyst - who is by nature: logical.

What do you mean lol?

 

[otto]

A working theory isn't sensitive information, it is a working theory. They'll tell the family and if they're right, it will get released eventually by the ME.

When they say "there is no danger to the public" that means "we think it is suicide". (We say that a lot to looky-loos "there's nothing to be concerned about")

I guarantee there is other information they are withholding. But what I do not know.

Sensitive Information:

"Mountlake Terrace police concede they’re holding back on releasing “sensitive information” about the death of Cheryl DeBoer until toxicology and forensic analysis of her computer and cellphone records are complete."

The working theory is suicide, and they are waiting for toxicology and forensic analysis of her computer and cellphone records to confirm this theory. Those results did not confirm the theory. The information was not released to the public. Family, via discussion forums, released that information.

Police said on Feb 14 that there was no danger to the community, and approximately three days later, they warned the public to be mindful and report anything unusual.

In any case, as soon as the "sensitive information" and police suicide theory was released (regardless of whether it was supported by toxicology results and electronic device analysis), the community stopped being concerned about the boogie man.

 

[otto]

What do you mean lol?

I mean that it doesn't add up in a way that can be explained. Why does a woman who loves hiking and hunting choose a drainage ditch and a plastic bag to end it all? Why not a gun in the outdoors?

 

[DatelineFan]

I know a few people have mentioned the idea of Cheryl possibly putting a plastic restaurant bag over her head to protect her head/hair from the rain. I am wondering if this is something people do in the south or if it happens in the country? I have lived in cities all over the west coast and in Seattle for nearly 15 years (plus short times in NYC and Paris) and I have never seen a person tie a plastic bag over their head that I can recall. In Seattle we generally wear raincoats with hoods during the rainy months. Otherwise even the fussiest (Cheryl doesn't appear fussy) don't pay much mind to drizzle. Hair be damned.

That said, I just googled plastic bag tied over head and a pic did pop up of a woman who looked like she was protecting her 'do with a white bag, so I guess it happens. It looked ridiculous. (There was also a joke pic of a cat with a plastic bag protecting its head. If we weren't talking about a tragic case, I would share it because it was pretty funny looking.)

I'm with you. I've said this before, I am extremely vain, especially with my hair! Haha! And I would never and have never put a bag on my head. Until last year I spent my life in Seattle and Portland, and I have not ONCE seen this!

 

[otto]

The problem with raw meat being the origin of the animal blood in Cheryl's car is that animals are cleaned after the kill, and that includes removing blood. If the animal blood in her car is from an innocuous source, then that source is not cleaning raw meat properly.

Something is wrong with this picture regardless of whether you lean towards suicide or murder.

 

[Jen Darme]

A Tragic Accident or Homicidal Drowning? Andrea Zaferes and Walt Hendrick, Lifeguard Systems and RIPTIDE

Victim trauma, signs of struggle at the scene, and signs of previous abuse, are not typically visible at pure-drowning homicide incidents (i.e. no other violence or cause of death other than drowning).​

We are quick to perceive foul play when victims have a bullet in their head or bricks tied to their body, or when the available information is illogical. The vast majority of drowning homicides that do get reported in research papers and coroner reports involve additional forms of violence, such as strangulation, stabbing, or beating.[SUP]1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8[/SUP] This is not evidence that the majority of drowning homicides include other forms of violence; rather it more likely demonstrates that police and medical personnel more frequently recognize such aggravated drowning homicide incidents, and miss, or fail to gain convictions on, pure drowning homicides.​

RIPTIDE is a non-profit that collects case information for analysis to help "medics, law enforcement, prosecutors, coroners, and pathologists identify whether a drowning is accidental, suicidal or homicidal" and also offers training in homicidal drowning investigations, and assistance with investigations. Contact info is at the end of the article.

Authors' credentials: Walt "Butch" Hendrick, Andrea Zaferes

And a tip o' the hat to the ME for noting the manner of death as undetermined.

 

[Alohaj]

Jen darme, took me a few minutes to connect your name, gendarme (I'm French). Are you in LE? You post a lot of useful and knowledgeable info in addition to your clever name.

 

[Jen Darme]

Jen darme, took me a few minutes to connect your name, gendarme (I'm French). Are you in LE? You post a lot of useful and knowledgeable info in addition to your clever name.

Thanks! The name's just a pun. I'm not in LE, more off to the side in the non-profit and private sectors writing security software and doing online investigations of systems abuse.

 

[Alohaj]

Thanks! The name's just a pun. I'm not in LE, more off to the side in the non-profit and private sectors writing security software and doing online investigations of systems abuse.

Clever, I like it!

 

[Starry Night]

Thanks! The name's just a pun. I'm not in LE, more off to the side in the non-profit and private sectors writing security software and doing online investigations of systems abuse.

Sure buddy-thanks!

 

[Eileen730]

I mean that it doesn't add up in a way that can be explained. Why does a woman who loves hiking and hunting choose a drainage ditch and a plastic bag to end it all? Why not a gun in the outdoors?

Because possibly something was wrong in her personal life.
Imoo

 

[Sun009]

I guess you have already forgotten the "12:30" posts. I think that's an outlier.

Lack of evidence pointing to a homicide now, does NOT mean, that a MOTIVE couldnt still aways appear down the road..

It reminds me of when the police have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE on a suspect, but they juuust need to FIGURE out that MOTIVE, so that jury will convict. When EVIDENCE isn't always enough....

No evidence linking a killer now, not 100% of evidence pointing to a suicide, indicates to me, how there still could be a MOTIVE, a strong enough MOTIVE, that required the use of NO weapons, no signs of a violent struggle, and definetly no sneezing.

I think it would be almost necessary to start jotting down things, that connect, or dont, or seem odd (doesnt have to be how I connect something)..just the small pieces that dont fit now somewhere for them, might be what people won't remember later. If you take notes of a lot of small stuff, it might lead to the bigger picture. If her family & those closest to her, strongly think she has a calculated killer, then why not jot down some calculations, as they see fit, relevant or odd to them.

 

[kammiemc]

Which would explain why animal control was seen at the creek where and when they found her body..i still would like to explore why else theyd be there.

When was animal control seen by the creek? As in, it was part of the investigation? Was LE there at the same time?

 

[kammiemc]

Why is Police Chief Greg Wilson looking for the easy solution that ignores the irregularities of the easy solution?

If Cheryl walked to the culvert, someone should have seen Cheryl walking to the culvert, or seen something suspicious. Yet, it appears that no one saw either Cheryl walking 1.5 miles to her self-managed demise, or anything suspicious. No one saw anything that supports suicide or murder, but one would expect that if she walked 1.5 miles a lot more people should have seen her. With a quick dump murder, fewer people would be expected to see or hear something.

Can the police chief present his theory of how a claustrophobic person commits suicide in a drainage ditch early on a Monday morning without drugs or any record of planning?

Is it possible that someone out there maybe did think they saw a woman walking that morning and LE has just not told us? Or has LE stated that there have been no tips of that sort? I can't imagine a woman walking during the commute timeframe standing out, so maybe no one took notice. But do we know for sure that no one did?

 

[Jen Darme]

The problem with raw meat being the origin of the animal blood in Cheryl's car is that animals are cleaned after the kill, and that includes removing blood. If the animal blood in her car is from an innocuous source, then that source is not cleaning raw meat properly.

Something is wrong with this picture regardless of whether you lean towards suicide or murder.

Another tidbit, thanks to my resident chemist. He's presenting at a conference so you're stuck with my layperson's understanding until someone clueful chimes in.

Hemoglobin and myoglobin both contain hemes which contain ferrous (iron) ions.

At least two of the common presumptive/field tests for the presence of blood (phenolphthalein-based Kastle-Meyer and EDTA-based Hemastix) actually reveal the presence of ferrous ions.

See where this is going?

Both tests will return a positive on hemoglobin/blood and myoglobin/from muscle tissue.

... and rust and the crushed root nodules of legumes (leghemoglobin - who knew?!?), according to a 2014 article in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, and other common substances. Btw, Luminol has the same problem, both with iron and the "presence of vegetable peroxidases (e.g., horseradish, broccoli, cauliflower or fruit juice)." This report has a veggie chart and notes beneath it that tomato juice and beetroot don't cross-react. (Odds are the blood on the floor board wasn't from a spilled smoothie but I was curious.)

If the next test, more time-consuming and done in a lab, checks for the presence of human glycophorin A antigen, you've narrowed it down to human vs animal. If it's not human, you still don't know if it's animal hemoglobin or animal myoglobin.

This isn't as hinky as it sounds (sans the horseradish, et al). If a person has been badly injured (think bullet wound), "blood" evidence could be both myoglobin (from muscle tissue) and hemoglobin. The distinction wouldn't be important, it's the victim's bodily fluids. Plus, when we have a muscle injury, myoglobin is released into our bloodstreams so a trail of blood may contain myoglobin.

 

[eucalyptuz]

Re: a witness to Cheryl's 1.5 mile walk
This seems to be a deal breaker for many people when considering a suicide scenario, but I really think it's highly possible that she may have been seen but nothing stuck in the minds of anybody that did. I lived in Canada for a while and once people are in winter coats (predominately dark in color), with collars up, hats/hoods on, hands in pockets, hunched in the cold...well, it's difficult to really recognize anyone unless you wore a particularly flamboyant scarf or something. I can see a walk east on 234 st SW, using the little pedestrian cut through at the eastern end, a sort hop nouth on 48th ave W before turning right on 233 st SW walking east and ending up at Cedar Way and just 20 mins. A further 5 mins walking south brings us to the culvert but as some have mentioned, there are entry points along Cedar way that have access to Lyon Creek. I think it possible that this walk while witnessed by commuters did not register in the memories, additionally so, as we are all so distracted and often rushed in the morning.

I am still on the fence, but Cheryl getting to the culvert unseen is not chief in my concerns with a suicide theory.

 

[kammiemc]

Re: a witness to Cheryl's 1.5 mile walk
This seems to be a deal breaker for many people when considering a suicide scenario, but I really think it's highly possible that she may have been seen but nothing stuck in the minds of anybody that did. I lived in Canada for a while and once people are in winter coats (predominately dark in color), with collars up, hats/hoods on, hands in pockets, hunched in the cold...well, it's difficult to really recognize anyone unless you wore a particularly flamboyant scarf or something. I can see a walk east on 234 st SW, using the little pedestrian cut through at the eastern end, a sort hop nouth on 48th ave W before turning right on 233 st SW walking east and ending up at Cedar Way and just 20 mins. A further 5 mins walking south brings us to the culvert but as some have mentioned, there are entry points along Cedar way that have access to Lyon Creek. I think it possible that this walk while witnessed by commuters did not register in the memories, additionally so, as we are all so distracted and often rushed in the morning.

I am still on the fence, but Cheryl getting to the culvert unseen is not chief in my concerns with a suicide theory.

I agree. I was walking all around those areas and I doubt anyone (even that afternoon) would have recalled seeing me. I don't think anyone would have necessarily noticed Cheryl walking.

I am with you. I can't claim to know at all whether this was homicide or suicide. But one could also argue that no one noticed Cheryl being forced into a car. Just like if no one noticed her walking, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[roro206]

Another tidbit, thanks to my resident chemist. He's presenting at a conference so you're stuck with my layperson's understanding until someone clueful chimes in.

Hemoglobin and myoglobin both contain hemes which contain ferrous (iron) ions.

At least two of the common presumptive/field tests for the presence of blood (phenolphthalein-based Kastle-Meyer and EDTA-based Hemastix) actually reveal the presence of ferrous ions.

See where this is going?

Both tests will return a positive on hemoglobin/blood and myoglobin/from muscle tissue.

... and rust and the crushed root nodules of legumes (leghemoglobin - who knew?!?), according to a 2014 article in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, and other common substances. Btw, Luminol has the same problem, both with iron and the "presence of vegetable peroxidases (e.g., horseradish, broccoli, cauliflower or fruit juice)." This report has a veggie chart and notes beneath it that tomato juice and beetroot don't cross-react. (Odds are the blood on the floor board wasn't from a spilled smoothie but I was curious.)

If the next test, more time-consuming and done in a lab, checks for the presence of human glycophorin A antigen, you've narrowed it down to human vs animal. If it's not human, you still don't know if it's animal hemoglobin or animal myoglobin.

This isn't as hinky as it sounds (sans the horseradish, et al). If a person has been badly injured (think bullet wound), "blood" evidence could be both myoglobin (from muscle tissue) and hemoglobin. The distinction wouldn't be important, it's the victim's bodily fluids. Plus, when we have a muscle injury, myoglobin is released into our bloodstreams so a trail of blood may contain myoglobin.

Good information. A verified family member posted earlier in thread regarding blood in car. My understanding is that blood on floor board was that of non-domestic animal but it was inconclusive as to what specific animal. Blood on console and door was that from CD.

I can't find the post now.

 

[kammiemc]

Good information. A verified family member posted earlier in thread regarding blood in car. My understanding is that blood on floor board was that of non-domestic animal but it was inconclusive as to what specific animal. Blood on console and door was that from CD.

Anyone else caught that post?

I saw the post and recall that he said the test was inconclusive but I didn't see the non-domestic animal part. I'll see if I can find it to be sure.

ETA. Found it. Post #876. In response to a question asking if the test determined what kind of animal, he said Nope, it was inconclusive.

On another post, he said that it was animal blood and that it was fresh enough and of substantial quantity to be able to smear with your hand.

 

[Yvettea]

I guess you have already forgotten the "12:30" posts. I think that's an outlier.

Please explain, what are the "12:30" posts?