WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #2

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I wonder if Cooper did not request a parachute that steered because it was dark out so he couldn't see where he was going anyway.

I don't think he was an experienced jumper, he probably had done the 2 jumps required to get the wings in the military but was likely not a paratrooper. If he had been experienced in zero-visibility night jumping he'd have requested 2 leg flares and an altimeter. I know this has been evoked and countered with the theory that Cooper didn't use flares because he didn't want to give off his position but that makes little sense considering that the air crew could pinpoint where he had jumped and when you use a flare you wait until you're near the ground to light it up. Chances of being seen from the ground in that particular area were very slim with or without a flare, not using one was either suicidal on purpose or denoted lack of forethought.

Unless of course he had brought flares with him on the flight. It's possible given the near-absence of airport security at the time.
 
There are many inconsistencies in the parachute stories.

It sounds like Officer Ed Mott, collected 2 reserve chutes from the parachute center in Issaquah.

And rigger Earl Cossey provided the two back rigs from his workshop at home. He must have also provided the canopies for them also because in the short time allotted, it would have been crazy to worry about compatibility between other canopies and the backpack rigs he provided. All canopies and rigs are not compatible.

Earl Cossey has said there were two different rigs. One padded and comfortable, the other not. He says Cooper used the inferior nonpadded rig. The FBI has never published info on the main rig that was left behind. Just the red/pink reserve chute that was opened and had lines cut.

Cossey also says the reserve chute Cooper apparently took with him didn't have D-rings. Reserve chutes in the '50s had two styles. Either with hooks on the chute and d-rings on the harness or vice-versa. So maybe the "training" reserve chute was incompatible with the harness Cossey provided..i.e. the chute had hooks. If so, Cooper, being inexperienced might have just hooked it to the hooks on the harness, rather than D-ring to hook.

Oddly, Cossey was quoted in a 1971 newspaper article as saying he packed all 4 chutes. But then he later said one was a training chute and he packed just the other three. It's unclear whether the training chute was a sewn shut system, or whether the canopy panels were sewn in some way.

In any case, since Cossey was an FAA master rigger, he would have signed packing cards for each chute and included them in the rigs.

There's no way Cossey would have signed off on a reserve chute he knew was bad. It sounds like he either didn't pack that reserve chute i.e. it was discovered by others that it was a training chute the next day (i.e. maybe someone said "hey..they took the training chute last night)

So I don't think Cossey did anything to the reserve chutes. He may be covering a little for himself, since as a FAA Master Rigger, he may have worried he screwed up by not checking the reserve chutes. Riggers hold themselves to very high standards.

There are inconsistencies in the color claimed for the main chute Cooper used. Early on, people said red and yellow. Now FBI is saying it's a white conical 26-foot NB-6.

Here's my main point.

It's clear no one has good knowledge of what the reserve chute was that Cooper jumped with (color or type). Probably a 24' chute.

Cooper was probably inexperienced. There were enough risks in the jump that it's unlikely he'd think he'd have some added risk mitigation with a reserve. Hell, at that point, you just use the main, and go with the odds that you won't need a reserve. (1 in 100 say). If you had to deploy the reserve, you'd be all screwed up anyhow and probably wouldn't survive.

Now on the found chute. (FBI is apparently now are saying he jumped with a main white NB-6).

Could it be a random surplus chute someone was using?

There's no reason for a chute in a field to have the strings still attached. Sure someone may have a surplus chute for use as a tarp..but it's too unwieldy to use with all the strings attached.

I think it's very likely the new find is Cooper's reserve chute. (which may have ripped off him on the jump, and sat inside the bag in the ground all these years... undeployed..until the fabric tore up.

 
There are many inconsistencies in the parachute stories.

It sounds like Officer Ed Mott, collected 2 reserve chutes from the parachute center in Issaquah.

And rigger Earl Cossey provided the two back rigs from his workshop at home. ...

There was a hectic scramble going on by the FBI trying to locate the four chutes demanded by "Cooper". The Issaquah Sky Diving School was called and the only person still there that evening was a woman clerical worker, who said that she could probably find four parachutes if it was really necessary. The FBI man told her that it was, and put out the word for a patrol car in the vicinity of the school to get there immediately.

The woman went to a rack and picked up two chest chutes. One evidently was this dummy "training chute" and the other was a regular chest pack used as an emergency chute. Both had ripcord handles, but the dummy chute was inert - not meant to open. The dummy was properly marked, but the woman was not experienced in recognizing such markings. To her they looked the same.

Not finding any backpack type chutes, she called Master Rigger Earl Cossey who was one of the school's instructors. He said that he had two finished assemblies and would bring them to the school immediately. By the time he arrived, the police car was already there with lights flashing. Both of the chest chutes had been placed in the car, and an urgent message came over his radio urging him to hurry. Cossey and the policeman put both backpack assemblies into the patrol car and it then sped off with siren screaming. There was no time to do the proper paperwork with chute serial numbers.

Cossey had not been able to examine the chest chutes before they left the school. It is possible that he had at some time previous actually packed them, but he did not know then which ones they were. It is possible that a later inventory of chutes led him to believe that he had actually packed all three of the good chutes, but that is speculation regarding the good chest chute.

If there had been a problem regarding compatability between the school's backpack chutes and chest chutes, Cossey probably would have said something about that. My feeling is that all chutes used by the school were compatablile. That would have been a basic safety consideration.

The plane landed almost at the same time the chutes arrived. They were rushed to the plane without examination because of the hostage situation. A delay could have been potentially fatal.
 
also note there is a long trail of misinformation in this case.

The FBI made a big deal of saying how unsafe the jump was.
And most writers maintained that point of view.

However, less reported was the McCoy hijacking just months later, copycat. Hijack and parachute jump from 727. $500,000 ransom. He was caught thru fingerprints and a tip. They found duffel bag with almost the full $500,000. He led a prison escape and was shot.

So there's the existence proof that jumping from a 727 worked.

Also the CIA was parachuting people into Vietnam out of 727s. HALO drops and otherwise.

Some of the misinformation may be unintentional. Even though the FBI took pictures of all the money, they were less detailed in a lot of other things. i.e. never assume evil when simple incompetence explains it.

They didn't keep details of the chutes very well. They totally blew the chase plane plan (fighter jets and helicoptor).

For all the talk of Cooper just winging it, the FBI that night was just winging it more. i.e. I think Cooper was the acting the most expertly that night, of all the parties involved. (except maybe the pilot).

at least the discovery of the money by the kid, and the card detailing operation of the aft stairs of the 727 (on the ground), make it likely he went out. For a period of time, one could imagine that he actually never left the plane.
 
Here's the article where Cossey supposedly said the training reserve chute didn't have D-rings.

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/NWA305-DBCooper.htm

There is a picture in that article of I think the opened reserve chute pack
that was left on the plane (as well as the pink/red chute)

Here's a comment by Cossey revealing which main rig Cooper selected
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=upiUPI-20080327-201237-5279&show_article=1


I mostly wanted to point out how the FBI is relying a lot on Cossey's memory/testimony..i.e. most of the parachute detail is from just one witness.

It's surprising that they worried about tracking the money, but they
didn't too much about tracking the chute.
 
How do we know the training chute story is right?

Cossey says there were no D-rings. He must say that based on his knowledge of the training chute, not from visual inspection that night. He would have noticed the X on the training chute and he probably would have said something about how the reserve wouldn't work with his backpack rig.

I mean supposedly they thought the guy was going to jump with one of the passengers right? So unless Cossey thought to himself "the mains are good...don't need to worry about reserves" ....he probably didn't look at the reserves at all.

It wasn't decided that it was a training chute till the next day. Cossey must
have looked over the inventory at the parachute center.

But what if that is all wrong. What if the description of the mistake was a mistake. Nothing that happened that night identified the bad reserve chute..it was apparently all deductive reasoning that happened the next day, based on observing other things at the center.

Maybe that was just wrong. All sorts of odd things could have happened.

It's also not been described just what was sewn on the training chute. The bag? or the panels somehow (to keep from inflating when used on the ground for teaching?). I'd like to see a description of said training chute. Or was it kludged locally just at this parachute center in that time period? Sounds weird.
 
snip...
But it seems clear that Earl Cossey said it was a reserve, and not the reserve that was left behind. i.e. the one
Cooper jumped with.

if this guy (Earl Cossey) is still alive - don't you think HE could identify the parachute??? :confused: :crazy:

and WELCOME to Websleuths snowmman!! :)
 
Okay I had mentioned the McCoy copycat hijacking. Part of the stuff against McCoy was his commenting to a friend about he Cooper job "Why didn't he ask for $500k" ...and then all of a sudden a $500k hijacking happens.

So the $200k number is interesting. You can imagine if you have two guys, split down the middle it makes sense. $200k is not a number that jumps out for a one guy plan. $100k maybe. $500k maybe.

Now heres the thing. There are people involved that seem to spend way too much time "explaining" how Cooper couldn't have survived and he was an idiot.

Especially Ralph Himmelsbach the original lead FBI agent.

Now it's only human nature to do that, if you failed at the task assigned (both that night and later). No problem, I'm not faulting Ralph.

But he has said whacky things like the following, where he's basically saying he can attest to the character of all airline employees. (that's just stupid). And we're talking 1971. from New York magazine interview
http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/index5.html

...I asked him if he’d ever investigated anybody who worked for Northwest Airlines. “No,” he said, and explained. “We had an awful lot of suggestions by people that said ‘I think it’s an inside job.’ It is inconceivable for several reasons. The most obvious, if you know anything about airline procedure, is that it is not possible for a conspiracy to form because the individuals are not in charge of what flights they’re going to go on.” But what about a lone employee? Himmelsbach ruled this out too. “If you were acquainted as I was with many of the people in the airline industry,” he explained, “they are exceptional people. They are head and shoulders above the standards and the values and the character of normal, average Americans.”...


That doesn't sound like an investigator is going to just deal with facts and understand non-facts. Airline conspiracies have happened before, with luggage guys smuggling drugs and such. I mean Ralph is just being stupid there.

So: Everyone goes on and on about how Cooper jumped in just a suit and leather shoes and an overcoat and the weather.

But: No one saw what he was wearing when he jumped. They weren't even sure he jumped when they landed. The last they saw him (thru a curtain) he was tying the money bag around his waist (apparently).

And where is the 2nd main chute that was supposedly left on the plane? It wasn't shown in the evidence video Carr recently made. Does that mean the FBI doesn't have it now? Apparently it was there when the plane landed from what I can gather from reports.

BUT: what if extra gear was packed in one or more of the 4 chutes. What if Cossey was an accomplice? The only parachute center in the area...I think reports said Cooper actually recommended the parachute center after he said he didn't want military parachutes..everyone says this is because he didn't want the "auto-open" military style (I'm not sure how they auto-opened anyhow...barometic altitude detect? it would have been obvious they wouldn't open with clips inside the plane like normal paratrooper drops)

Maybe he emphasized civilian so the chutes would come from the parachute center. And then magically, Cossey provides backpack rigs that were packed at home.

Were the rigs checked before delivery? Evidently not, noting the lack of inspection on one reserve.
So anything could have been smuggled on the plane in those chutes. Shoes etc.

He could have jumped wearing new clothes. Note that when Cooper was alone before the apparent jump, and the pilot heard something, they asked him if he needed any help back there and he yelled "No!" You yell No when you're in the middle of doing something.

Cooper was detailed about a lot of things in the hijack. It doesn't make sense that he thinks about lots of details, like dimming the lights when it's at the airport to avoid getting hit by police sharpshooters, and not have thought through the last part: the jump/landing/recovery (and how to avoid
being found by the FBI).

Cossey was supposedly investigated. He's been quoted an amazing number of times since then. More than all the other players: cops, pilots, stewardess, etc. Always talking up how the guy was inexperienced for various wacky reasons. I mean if I was in his shoes, I would just say "dunno" thinking the guy could be experienced or not, and maybe was
acting certain ways to cover his tracks.

Here's a theory:
Cossey was in on it.
Cooper died somehow on the jump and never made it back.
Cossey kept his mouth shut.

Maybe Cossey didn't really know the guy real close...a crazy guy who comes up to you with a crazy plane..you smile and laugh and think how cool it would be pull it off half thinking he'd never do it...then he goes and do it so you keep your half of the deal...but then afterwards you realize you really screwed up and keep your mouth shut.
 
For all the talk about him demanding civilian parachutes, they gave him a parachute rig, olive drab, NB-6...military issue.

Evidently that was okay with him.

here are pictures of a older NB-6 backpack rig. This one may
be older than the one Cooper apparently used. The systems
have a lifetime of 17 years or so, so who knows. (1958 is 13 yrs before 1971)

http://www.ljmilitaria.com/1d7de0fa0.jpg
http://www.ljmilitaria.com/1d81c2fa0.jpg
you can see it's id numbers here
http://www.ljmilitaria.com/1d7ffa9f0.jpg

this one is dated 1958, made by Switlik
 
at least the discovery of the money by the kid, and the card detailing operation of the aft stairs of the 727 (on the ground), make it likely he went out. For a period of time, one could imagine that he actually never left the plane.

That thought had crossed my mind years ago but Cooper certainly knew that the one thing the FBI wouldn't screw up is the securing of the aircraft from its landing roll after the jump. For this at least the authorities had time to prepare and it's unlikely anyone could have escaped the plane once it was back on the ground. But it's fun nonetheless to imagine that Cooper would have lowered the stairs, thrown some money and a parachute out to throw authorities off his scent, and stayed on the plane with the remainder of the money.
 
I've been using Google Earth to look at the relevant interesting locations.

Interestingly, the probable landing zone isn't as forested as all the press claimed/was told. There's a lot of open fields. Google Earth provides a lot of insight that they didn't have from the mapping technology available then.

Once you get to Ariel and Amboy, WA, there are a lot of open fields.. I think more fields than forest. Although they said there was cloud cover, there are many large lakes and rivers (Lake Merwin), say, that could have been used as a visual reference.

You can also use these locations in Google Maps

The money was apparently found on the beach of the Columbia River at
45°43'2.88"N 122°45'34.55"W although that may be faulty. Exact location not widely published. I got it from
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM34G6
which also has a picture of the Tina Bar (the sand beach where it was found)
interesting pics
picture of FBI agents digging the 150 ft area they searched
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/71676dae-3875-4dcd-82c9-8442a3bdffd0.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/34aa42a3-7aa7-4874-8d5c-81786362f858.jpg
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/f0a705e8-d63a-4600-a4e6-9ae7febe4b12.jpg

(another interesting location, where the hunter found the card with the instructions for lowering the aft stairs of a 727, has not been published?)

Some believe that in order to get from the flight path to the Columbia river beach location, that maybe the money fell in the Mashougal River which flows south by Rt 140, to Mashougal, WA, where it hits the Columbia River that flows NW to the ocean

The Lewis River drains more directly from the predicted jump zone to the Columbia, but it is downstream from the location where the money was found. The Mashougal is upstream from the location, so is a better theory....Although there is some thinking that the water was really high, and stuff could have floated upstream somehow?..so the Lewis River theory is not discounted. (actually the Lewis River theory is most likely if the Amboy , WA chute is real)

The Mashougal River curves around..the farthest N point is approximately.
45°37'42.40"N 122°18'37.61"W. Mashougal, WA is approx 4 miles SW of that point

It is then 22 miles NW from Mashougal, WA to the approx location where the money was found. The Columbia curves a bit there so it would have had to float further.

Amboy, WA where the chute was found, is approx 21 miles NNW from the northern point of the Mashougal River.

The original predicted jump location was believed to have been roughly 10 miles east of Interstate 5, near Ariel, Wash., and the Lake Merwin Dam of the Lewis River. That is 8 miles WNW of the Amboy, WA chute location.

However, a much later conversation between the pilot, Scott, and the then lead FBI agent, suggests that Scott thought they were flying west of I5, not east. If that is true, then the predicted jump location may be off.

here is the reference for the uncertainty about the jump location. (they originally thought he jumped when the pilot felt a "curtsy" of the plane, due to the down/up motion of the stairs when you walk them in flight (the FBI re-enacted that...although not a human jump)

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/DB_Cooper/7.html


....The jump area was believed to have been roughly 10 miles east of Interstate 5, near Ariel, Wash., and the Lake Merwin Dam of the Lewis River, which separates Clark and Cowlitz counties. The FBI helped pinpoint that location by staging a reenactment of the jump. A 200-pound sled attached to a parachute was heaved from the aft stairs of a 727 traveling at the same speed and altitude as the Cooper jet at the precise place where Capt. Scott felt the jet genuflect.
But later calculations placed the jump just west, not east, of I-5, near the village of Woodland, Wash., and the Columbia River. The costly searching near Ariel was wasted, Himmelsbach said. Remarkably, he said this revelation occurred to him in 1980 when, on the day of his retirement, Capt. Scott paid him a courtesy visit. They got to talking, and Scott let drop that the jet was traveling west of where the FBI believed it had been. No one with the agency has ever offered an explanation as to how such a goof could have gone undetected for nine years.....

So Woodland WA is another interesting location, and it's right on the Lewis River, although the Lewis hits the Columbia downstream from where the money was found, as noted before.

here is a jpg of the flight path map that the FBI apparently thought was correct back then. It is from the FBI evidence

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20071123/450cooper_00462_mapvert.jpg

when I zoom in on it, the 2010 mark appears to be near the Lake Merwin dam location. (2010 is probably a reference to 8:10 when the crew felt the "pressure bumps" which is when they "think" he jumped. The cockpit light indicated the stairs lowered at 8:05 which is the 2005 mark. That's when Cooper yelled "No!" when they asked if he needed help.
Although, it's been reported the predicted jump time was 8:11. There is a faint 2011 mark on that map also. So there could be 1 minute of variation in predicted jump area, in addition to other issues with location.

However, Wikipedia claims the mixup of predicted jump area was "east" of the first location, not "west" as I note above..from this article

http://home.earthlink.net/~quade/dbcooper.html

So it's unclear what Scott told Himmelsbach. If it was more east like that article says, it's closer to Amboy where the chute was found.

Like I've said before: while the experts made fun of Cooper's actions that night, in hindsight I think he was acting the most expertly of everyone involved.

However, given that no one knew when he jumped exactly, the FBI did a pretty good job afterwards of isolating a probable jump site, based on the info from the pilot. I'm not sure if they used flight recorder information but maybe.

The key predicted area seems to be bounded by these points.
Note it doesn't seem that heavily forested to me. a lot of farmland

Woodland, WA
Ariel, WA
Amboy, WA
Mashougal, WA
Vancouver, WA (beach location)
 
Hi, What I'd like to know is how far this parachute was from where the point is that planes flying overhead take their bearings from.

Over the weekend I['ll have to go back and review LeftCoast's posts, as there ws quite a discussion about where they thought he jumped out, which would put him on the ground close to that spot. From the air you see a paved round circle with what appears to be a amall bldg big enough for say a desk and that's it.

I lived in the Metro area when DB Cooper jumped and I also sold real estate in the Vancouver area for many years. Amboy is NE of Vancouver and probably 20 miles from the city of Vancouver. Vancouver sits on the Columbia River and a bridge connects it to Portland where I live. The spot where the boy found the bag of money couldn't have been more than 3 to 4 miles down river going west.

I'm guessing 25 miles or so as the crow flies between the chute and the money. The local talk was that the bag was buried in the sandy dirt up high on the bank of the river, not far from Vancouver Lake. The article says they think it washed downshore. Who knows but those who examined the bag!

It is midnight here now, so off to bed, but I will find a good map for you in the morning!

God Bless Left Coast. Wish you were here Sweetie. We all learned so much from you and enjoyed the time we had together. xox
 
As I mentioned on another thread,I hope they are taking into account that smokejumpers have been being deployed on forest fires in the pacific northwest since the late 1940's...
 
I updated my post above, but thought I'd repeat here since the picture of the fbi agents digging in the sand where the money was found is new...I hadn't seen it before

The money was apparently found on the beach of the Columbia River at
45°43'2.88"N 122°45'34.55"W although that may be faulty. Exact location not widely published. I got it from
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM34G6
which also has a picture of the Tina Bar (the sand beach where it was found)

picture of FBI agents digging the 150 ft area they searched
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarkin...42a3bdffd0.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarkin...786362f858.jpg
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarkin...e7febe4b12.jpg
 
Interestingly, the first test of smokejumpers (parachute in to fight forest fires) was done in 1939 in the Northwest.

Here is a link to the full 1939 report that was a result of those tests.

http://www.ncsbsmokejumpers.com/historical-documents/1939-report.pdf
there are many interesting photos in there that show parachutes snagged in trees on landing...with humans or cargo.

(page 21-23 say). Interestingly, on page 24 they say
"In no instance did a dummy test show any indication that there would be danger of a jumper getting hurt on landing in trees"
Lots of other pics further in..guys landing in 100'+ trees and climbing down.

Makes you think that if Cooper deployed his chute, he probably had a 50-50 chance of landing snagged on a tree, based on the terrain. (likely there were more trees back then in 1971 in the area...although they did do a lot of clearcutting..so dunno. Current Google Earth seems to have maybe 50% forested)

So maybe it's likely he didn't deploy and just augered into the ground.
If the chute had snagged, he might have climbed down, but the chute probably would have been found/seen, snagged in the tree.

So any undeployed chute probably would survive to this day, since the rig would have protected it from UV exposure....maybe rotted away eventually, exposing the chute.
 
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/aviation/av_library/sj_guide/02_LESSON_PLAN_HISTORY.pdf

from page 12

1945 - FS-1 28 ft. flat circular canopy
1954 - FS-2 like FS-1 with extensions on 3 gores
1956 - FS-5 32 ft flat canopy
1960 - FS-5A same with 10 ft steering slots
1969 - FS-9 (experimental)
1970 - FS-10 35ft parabolic
1980 - FS-12 32ft flat circular
1983 - Ram air
1997 - FS-14 28, 30, 32 ft circular

So, it seems like the smoke jumper parachutes had some mods compared to normal military chutes of the time period. (slots, tails, whatever). A smoke jumper parachute should be easily distinguishable from the NB-6 main, or probable T7 or T10 reserve, that were provided to Cooper.
 
I'm looking at Google Earth and the Columbia River, and the location where the money was found, and regardless of the water levels that year, I'm thinking there's no way the money would have floated so far..i.e not from the Washougal River. It's 25-30 miles. It's likely it would have snagged on land somewhere sooner. Sure things float a long ways in the ocean, but there's nothing to snag on.

Note the FBI did no float tests when they found the money.
I can see how the river widens there and may be the current slows.

But a canvas bag with paper money floating that far? no way.

Also couple it with Scott's conversation about actually being west of I-5?

I think maybe they had the jump zone just wrong? I mean rather than stressing about a theory connecting the money location and the jump zone...just look at all the random information they were trying to connect to come up with a jump zone. And how it may all be wrong. So there's really no jump zone they can be sure of.


So the most likely thing: The jump zone was near where the money was found. The money site is only 14 miles south of Woodland, WA, the alternate predicted jump zone. At 200 mph, that's only a 4.2 minute difference. They could easily be wrong by that amount of time in when they thought he jumped. They knew he was there at 8:05. They think he jumped at 8:10 or 8:11, but it's unclear if that's memory of the "bump" or flight recorder info.

Close enough that it's reasonable to just say: the money location is likely the best indicator of the jump zone! Why doesn't the FBI say this, rather than pretending their previous data has accuracy it doesn't have?



That would mean he landed very near Vancouver, and there'd be no issue
about being cold or walking in the woods etc. If he landed and stashed his parachute, it'd be easy for him to walk to safety. But it would be more likely someone would have noticed something? Although it was night and raining, so maybe not.
 
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