WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #2

[leftcoast]

First: Thanks to AZLAW for his take on this. I appreciate your view point

OD: Glad to hear that you are now considering that H-bach may have not been in on this from the beginning.

I agree with every single word of your post. Every word.

When we went to lunch in 2001, I thought there was a 99.9% chance H-bach would laugh at us, and say, "of course", I checked out his alibi. That never happened.

Now, since you are doubting H-bach's involvement from the beginning, what are you thinking as far as why he refused to invesigate?

My take is as follows:

Either one of the following scenarios:

H-bach realized some months after 11/71 that maybe he made a mistake. He buries the case, convinces himself he didn't make an error, and continues to look elsewhere.

His motive could be simple. Afraid of losing his job, or being re-assigned to do background checks the remainder of his career.

Another possible motive is that H-bach is a "Know it all". There are some people, that regardless of the evidence, have a vision, and will not even consider another option. Take the OJ case, IMO, the jury made up their decision before the case even started, and all they looked for was a reason to exonnerate OJ.

Another possible answer is that H=bach really didn't get it until 2001. This is the theory that in my mind holds the most water. I saw the look on his face when I mentioned the name Ted Mayfield. It was if I had no right to question him. that told me a lot. It told me that he never even considered the possibility, nor was he open to the idea. Any agent worth their own weight, will consider all theories.

AS I've said before, I really don't think H-bach was "in" on it. However, I do believe at this moment he understands that he might have passed on the wrong man. His quotes from KOIN and IE say it all

H=bach, " I guess I'll just have to live with knowing that I'm his alibi"
and my favorite, "he would have been a logical suspect"

And you decide not to invesigate him? Why? IF is was only because of the phone call, then h=bach is dead wrong in passing.

Before we met with H-bach for lunch in 2001, my buddy asked the other FBI agent, "hey, we think we solved the case, if it turns out that H-bach passed on the wrong guy, will he admit it", the retired agent said, "of course, capturing Cooper is more important than admitting a mistake".

From what I have seen, that is NOT true. It takes a big man to admit he passed on the wrong man, and especially in a case that has made him a celebrity in Portland, and a name associated with DB Cooper.

Many of us say we would admit we made a mistake, I certainly hope so. By going on KOIn and IE, H-bach has already admitted to making a "horrendous" error in judgement. That is , he never asked Mayfield for an alibi, and he allowed a convicted armed robber to assist in an investigation in which h=bach admits that mayfield could be a part of.

For what it is worth, I still have not eliminated the possibility that the investigation was purposely steered away from Mayfield. However, I have zero evidence to prove such a conspiracy. If I did, I would share it with everyone, and the FBI. However, I would be foolish to think that I have the whole story. I have part of the story, and only the other players know the rest.
left

 

[leftcoast]

OD

I agree that if H-bach still refuses to call the FBi, and admit he may have passed on the correct suspect, that his "character" certainly comes into question.

I think Matt said it right, he said "I think H-bach was just trying to eliminate as many suspects as possible, as quick as possible".

In other words, he beleives H-bach was in over his head. I agree.

OD brings up a good point. Common sense tells you there are very few people who have the skills necessary to pull off this heist.

Why H=bach decided to pass on the number one candidate is beyond me.

I'll bet anyone, that Mayfield had the highest number of calls to the FBI suggesting he was Cooper.

Of course, someone with "tunnel vision or worse" could say, ya, it is because he is a local skydiving champ, and had a record.

Actually, very few people knew about his criminal background. That is one of the reason why he moved so far away from Portland after the heist.

New town, new beginnings, and the town folk just think "howard" has some money, he must have, he's got his own airport, planes, and building. Must come from money.

If only they knew, just one year earlier, he was driving a 7-up truck, stocking shelves at the grocery store. Talk about some good investments.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Hello leftcoast,

I know some terrific investigative work has been done by yourself and your partner.

Your case seems to be an 'open and shut' one as we said back in the good old days.

So why isn't a major media outfit running hard with it?
They must be as thick as bricks.

Here we have a case that has been a mystery for over three decades and now it's been solved and nothing happens.

What's the go these days?
It appears you have not only solve a case; you have to prove you solved it.

Keep hammering away because someone somewhere is going to realise they have a scoop. A big scoop.

 

[leftcoast]

Hello leftcoast,

I know some terrific investigative work has been done by yourself and your partner.

Your case seems to be an 'open and shut' one as we said back in the good old days.

So why isn't a major media outfit running hard with it?
They must be as thick as bricks.

Here we have a case that has been a mystery for over three decades and now it's been solved and nothing happens.

What's the go these days?
It appears you have not only solve a case; you have to prove you solved it.

Keep hammering away because someone somewhere is going to realise they have a scoop. A big scoop.

Thanks Mystery

yes, we worked hard and really did our homework on this case.

We were on a local tv, and of course "inside edition".

I think the major problem is that he hasn't been charged by the FBI.

After the Richard Jewel case, media is very nervous about "accusing" someone of a crime

Another problem we have is that the original FBI agent on the case, won't admit he could have made a mistake.

Plus, our suspect, who has a long criminal history, has denied the charges.

WE have a lot of logs on the fire. An author wants to write our story, and we have a media consultant that is talking with networks to do a major story, also a documentary, and hopefully a book deal.

Thanks for your support and confidence in our work.

Don't worry, we're not going to let him off the hook. If he is Cooper, he hasnt' seen the last of this case. WE have some pretty damaging information that is secret to him, that might just hang him, if the case ever goes to trial.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Update:

I called the "mayberry newspaper" today and had an hour long discussion with the writer of the mayberry column who wrote about Teddy and how he laughed at the idea of him possibly being Cooper.

I informed the writer that I didn't appreciate being misquoted.

I also asked him if he ever thought about calling us, and getting our side of the story. He said "well, I guess I could have asked Donahue for your email address or phone"

So, he never tried to get in contact with us

But, he did call Teddy, who of course lied through his teeth about us.

I informed the columist about our case, Teddy's past (which he knew nothing about), and the circumstances.

He was rather defensive, and said he wouldn't write another column.

Neither would I. If I was too lazy to get both sides of a story, and simply sat at my desk and got quotes from a 'suspect", and a friend of the "suspect", I certainly wouldn't write a retraction, or the other side.

I did ask him if he knew Ted, and of course he has known of him for years.

And that is what we call journalism in our society.

You would think the reporter would have at least called us, ran a background on Teddy, or done anything.

No, that would take work, and of course, we need to make certain the local newspaper doesnt' make enemies with regard to the local population.

I did ask the reporter, so, did you know Ted got "popped" for armed robbery, and stealing a plane. His response was, well, I wasn't living here back then.

You know, I wasn't living here back then either, but, I found out.

Is it me, or do we live in a very, very, lazy society.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

Update:

I called the "mayberry newspaper" today and had an hour long discussion with the writer of the mayberry column who wrote about Teddy and how he laughed at the idea of him possibly being Cooper.

I informed the writer that I didn't appreciate being misquoted.

I also asked him if he ever thought about calling us, and getting our side of the story. He said "well, I guess I could have asked Donahue for your email address or phone"

So, he never tried to get in contact with us

But, he did call Teddy, who of course lied through his teeth about us.

I informed the columist about our case, Teddy's past (which he knew nothing about), and the circumstances.

He was rather defensive, and said he wouldn't write another column.

Neither would I. If I was too lazy to get both sides of a story, and simply sat at my desk and got quotes from a 'suspect", and a friend of the "suspect", I certainly wouldn't write a retraction, or the other side.

I did ask him if he knew Ted, and of course he has known of him for years.

And that is what we call journalism in our society.

You would think the reporter would have at least called us, ran a background on Teddy, or done anything.

No, that would take work, and of course, we need to make certain the local newspaper doesnt' make enemies with regard to the local population.

I did ask the reporter, so, did you know Ted got "popped" for armed robbery, and stealing a plane. His response was, well, I wasn't living here back then.

You know, I wasn't living here back then either, but, I found out.

Is it me, or do we live in a very, very, lazy society.

left

No Left it's not just you. When I read your post I was thinking that this journalist probably graduated from the Ralph E. Himmelsbach school of journalism .

I know it's a stretch, but I'd sure like to see you on something like 20/20 or 60min. Shows like that will actually investigate, especially the latter. Then a good portion of the public would have to make up their mind instead of be lead to believe that this is a spectacle or a publicity stint.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

No Left it's not just you. When I read your post I was thinking that this journalist probably graduated from the Ralph E. Himmelsbach school of journalism .

I know it's a stretch, but I'd sure like to see you on something like 20/20 or 60min. Shows like that will actually investigate, especially the latter. Then a good portion of the public would have to make up their mind instead of be lead to believe that this is a spectacle or a publicity stint.

OD

Thanks OD

I would love to be on 20/20 or 60 minutes.

I have no qualms with a neutral organization showing both sides of this case.

I have nothing to hide.

As a matter of fact, I have a media consultant trying to get us on those shows.

I'd love to debate mayfield on live tv or a taped show, and here what he has to say. Let the public figure out exactly what is going on.

Let's interview some of Mayfield's victims, like the guy who he put a .45 in his face, or the guy whose plane was stolen, or the families of the two men who Mayfield was charged with "criminal negligent homicide". Let's see the other side. And let's see how a man was able to get fired, have no job, yet put up a huge building, buy planes, lease land, all in Oregon where it rains half the year, not to mention his location is so far from any freeway, population, or people. And all of this while being on probation as a armed robber, without a job. hmmmm

I think this case is stalled because of one man's ego, H-bach. IF he was man enough to admit that he made an error, the news organizations would all pick up the story. But, H-bach has put his reputation and ego ahead of catching Cooper. The problem is most news organizations can't believe that a FBI agent could overlook such an obvious suspect. Neither could we , until we asked, and did our own investigation. The media needs to do the same.

left

Ps It is amazing in this country. Jonas Salk is famous for finding a vaccine for polio. WEll deserved.

Ralph Himmelsbach is semi-famous for not solving the db cooper case. Isn't that kind of like being famous for not accomplishing anything.

 

[angelmom]

LC,

does the "mayberry newspaper" have any online presence?

(That sounded so bizarre, even just in my head. :crazy: )

I was just thinking I'd love to read the whole article, and also add my :twocents: to the comments section below that many papers online now have.

I hope your media agent can get you on one of those shows. This is driving me nuts now, and I've only known about it a short time. You must be so frustrated.

Hang in there!

 

[leftcoast]

LC,

does the "mayberry newspaper" have any online presence?

(That sounded so bizarre, even just in my head. :crazy: )

I was just thinking I'd love to read the whole article, and also add my :twocents: to the comments section below that many papers online now have.

I hope your media agent can get you on one of those shows. This is driving me nuts now, and I've only known about it a short time. You must be so frustrated.

Hang in there!

Thanks Angel MOM

We are hanging in there. WE have an established author who wants to write our book, offers for a documentary, and the KOIN, IE, Steve Rinehart Radio Show, and the Porltand Tribune Article. So, we have been fortunate to get the press.

Of course, it took a lot of hard work to get the word out.

that is the thing most people don't understand. IT is next to impossible to get a story on tv, radio, etc., unless your story has some validity.

I don't get upset if people disagree with our conclusion, I only get upset when so-called journalists do half-*advertiser censored** reporting, and only show one side of the story. These reporters are lazy, and only want a quick story, without having to do any research.

But, enough about me preaching to the choir, I think we all know that every media outlet has some type of agenda, versus just reporting the story, and letting people make their own decisions.

Here is the link to the story http://www.newsregister.com/news/results.cfm?story_no=222165

Get ready to read today's fine journalism. This article was published in McMinnville, which is a sister city to Sheridan, and about 10 miles from Mayberry.

thanks for the support

left

 

[leftcoast]

You know what, the first time I read that article, I was so mad I didn't even read the whole thing.

today, I sat down and read the entire article.

First, we never,ever said "we were 100% certain Mayfield is Cooper, we said, we have a very, very,very good suspect who was never looked at by the fBI"

Next,. Ted never told us to get out of here. We finished the conversation, I told him nothing personal, and he said he was on his way to buy a washer and dryer with the wife.

HE had his tail between his legs when I pulled out the armed robbery card, He was trembling, trying to come up with an excuse for why he committed armed robbery just 10 months before the hijacking.

then, of course, the lies about the FBI calling him 5 times that night. Well, if the FBI had called Ted, wouldn't he have remembered which office, Seattle or Portland. Plus, Ted says he didn't even know the agents name. Five times, its your alibi, and you can't remember the guys name or office.

Not to mention TEd refuses to admit he knows H-bach.

So, if the FBI had called Ted, that would be a "perfect alibi". Being on a phone with an FBI agent, while Cooper was on the plane.

So, we all know the FBI never called TEd that night.

It was TEd who "insisted" on talking to H-bach at about 10:00pm. No other agent would do. What was so important. Ted just didn't want the FBI to think he was the hijacker. Hmm. Ted calls two hours after Cooper jumps, and doesn't want the FBI to think he is the hijacker.

Make your own conclusions.

Anyway, we talked to him at least five times just about the Cooper case. I asked him at least five or six times, "where do you think he jumped", and TEd would never even take a guess.

NOw, in this article in McMinnville, he admits jumping in the area Cooper was known to have jumped. Hmm. I thought where Cooper was thought to have jumped that it was "inconceiveable that a man could land uninjured".

I'll bet Ted got a kick out of jumping where Cooper jumped.

BTW" I thought Ted was trying to help the fBI catch Cooper? So, why did he get a kick out of jumping where a known pirate who terrorized two women for 5 hours landed with 200 grand?

The more he talks, the tighter the noose is getting.

Who wants to make a bet that Ted jumped in the dropzone many times before 11/24, just to learn the terrain?

left

 

[angelmom]

Well, it won't win any Pulitzer Prizes, but I don't think it makes you look as bad as you took it.

I understand being irritated by the lack of any real research or, indeed, a resemblance to true journalism, but I don't think it makes Teddy look so innocent, either.

Anyway, brush him off. The guy obviously can't be bothered. Besides, he's not who you want anyway. You want someone people actually listen to.

It will happen. It just takes patience...lots of patience.

 

[leftcoast]

Angelmom

you are probably right, but, it was still a "pro" Teddy article.

What really upsets me is that H-bach isn't telling the entire truth.

H-bach admitted to me in 2001 that "maybe Ted planned it, was in on it, or there is a 1% chance that Ted is Cooper", h-bach said it was close to the same odds as Weber."

Well, if H-bach calls the FBI and has the FBI open a file on Weber, why not Teddy?

left

 

[angelmom]

Angelmom

you are probably right, but, it was still a "pro" Teddy article.

What really upsets me is that H-bach isn't telling the entire truth.

H-bach admitted to me in 2001 that "maybe Ted planned it, was in on it, or there is a 1% chance that Ted is Cooper", h-bach said it was close to the same odds as Weber."

Well, if H-bach calls the FBI and has the FBI open a file on Weber, why not Teddy?

left

Indeed. And these are all the questions a real journalist would ask. I only hope that when it happens, he doesn't get one of those softball interviews that make me want to throw stuff at the TV! :angel:

 

[rightcoast]

maybe i'm just a hothead, but i don't like support being built for an untruthful man by a lazy man away from two men who are trying to be truthful about everything in the case so as to give no quarter to the enemy, so to speak.

 

[rightcoast]

a more firm reply to the mayberry gazzette is forthcoming

 

[Old Dominion]

What really upsets me is that H-bach isn't telling the entire truth.

H-bach admitted to me in 2001 that "maybe Ted planned it, was in on it, or there is a 1% chance that Ted is Cooper", h-bach said it was close to the same odds as Weber."

Well, if H-bach calls the FBI and has the FBI open a file on Weber, why not Teddy?

left

Yeah well as you know that's not all that upsets me about H-B. I just don't see any randomness to his supposed blundering.

I've got a question for you. If you were H-B, and the facts are as they are in this case WRT to hijacking, and your intent was to bury the investigation and let your friend off, how would you have done anything differently than H-B did?

OD

 

[rightcoast]

Yeah well as you know that's not all that upsets me about H-B. I just don't see any randomness to his supposed blundering.

I've got a question for you. If you were H-B, and the facts are as they are in this case WRT to hijacking, and your intent was to bury the investigation and let your friend off, how would you have done anything differently than H-B did?

OD

I'm not sure if I grabbed that quote right. I'm still learning how to use this site.


HB, as LC has said, would have distanced himself from any mention of Teddy. He could have easily taken the wind out of the sails of the case by strengthening Teddy's alibi. There are plenty of things HB could have done to permanently drive away any investigation of Teddy. So to suggest that HB might have been in on it because no one could bungle things that badly, or to suggest that the bunglings have a pattern would necessarily have to say that the pattern itself is flawed. So either he bungled the case, or he bungled being in on it. Either way, HB bungled it. To my mind, the evidence strongly points to him not being in on it.

 

[rightcoast]

So yeah, there are plenty of things that HB could have done differently and would have done differently if he was trying to hide Teddy.

 

[rightcoast]

just to clear things up, i'm matthew myers. just thought it'd be enjoyable to join the discussion. i'm the patner against crime of leftcoast.

 

[angelmom]

just to clear things up, i'm matthew myers. just thought it'd be enjoyable to join the discussion. i'm the patner against crime of leftcoast.

Welcome to the fray! This has been fun to follow.