WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[MrShutter45]

Don't hold it against them. Airlines constantly revised their flight manuals as they revised their planes. And they rigidly controlled custody of them. They ended up having and destroying most all ever produced. Only a very small number slipped out, and over a lot of years--each one updated to the time it escaped. I do think the vast majority of what that package shows is close to the old -100s. The specific instuments mostly look a little different but are in the same places and perform basically the same. As to those pilots: The pilots that flew those early ones would be over 70 years old now.

I noticed a guage for outside air temp or true airspeed. They wouldn't affect how the plane flies. Their presence just relieved the FE of some computation work.

well I got the sim to work, what a difference with a 2D &3D view!!! lot's to learn and understand before any real flights are made, I took it up and found out very quickly what a bad pilot of a 727 I am :blushing: I have to read the manual in order to find all of the functions on the software. also still have more uploads to ad on to this program that will unlock some more actions needed for a realistic flight.

not use to all of the alarms going off and someone telling me the altitude etc etc. it has 7 different 100 models and I am going through them now to see if they are the same, several passenger planes and cargo etc. time to crack a beer and get into to this, feel like a kid on Christmas for cryin out loud :blushing:

also has a 100-super 27?

 

[hominid]

woohoo!!

 

[hominid]

Georger,

Tosaw said that agent Tom Manning was on the re-enactment flight. I've only found a couple of pix of Manning and neither is good because of the angles. None of the people in the "gang of 12" picture of the participants in the flight looks like Manning to me. The only one that is a "possible" is the guy in the attached. Do you have a good pic of Manning, or know who this guy was?

 

[georger]

I have the worse luck at anything I get, downloaded the Dreamfleet and I'm getting error's! since it's the weekend nobody is alive at Flight1 for assistance, If I can not resolve the issue's, I'll have to wait until Monday! :jail:

patience. patience. lease: ur doin gooooooohd!

 

[georger]

well I got the sim to work, what a difference with a 2D &3D view!!! lot's to learn and understand before any real flights are made, I took it up and found out very quickly what a bad pilot of a 727 I am :blushing: I have to read the manual in order to find all of the functions on the software. also still have more uploads to ad on to this program that will unlock some more actions needed for a realistic flight.

not use to all of the alarms going off and someone telling me the altitude etc etc. it has 7 different 100 models and I am going through them now to see if they are the same, several passenger planes and cargo etc. time to crack a beer and get into to this, feel like a kid on Christmas for cryin out loud :blushing:

also has a 100-super 27?

Yeehaw! :what:

 

[georger]

Georger,

Tosaw said that agent Tom Manning was on the re-enactment flight. I've only found a couple of pix of Manning and neither is good because of the angles. None of the people in the "gang of 12" picture of the participants in the flight looks like Manning to me. The only one that is a "possible" is the guy in the attached. Do you have a good pic of Manning, or know who this guy was?

Let me check, I dont think so, but I will check and get back; if this is
really important I can confirm one (hopfully in short order) - offline ?

I will search my files tonight ...

 

[georger]

well I got the sim to work, what a difference with a 2D &3D view!!! lot's to learn and understand before any real flights are made, I took it up and found out very quickly what a bad pilot of a 727 I am :blushing: I have to read the manual in order to find all of the functions on the software. also still have more uploads to ad on to this program that will unlock some more actions needed for a realistic flight.

not use to all of the alarms going off and someone telling me the altitude etc etc. it has 7 different 100 models and I am going through them now to see if they are the same, several passenger planes and cargo etc. time to crack a beer and get into to this, feel like a kid on Christmas for cryin out loud :blushing:

also has a 100-super 27?

Couple of points on weight, quickly -

heavier out of SEA than from PDX to SEA

still had luggage on board
"Finally, at 7:10 p.m., almost an hour and a half after beginning, the fuel gauge on the 727 showed a full load of 51,500 pounds. Cooper was notified that the refueling was completed..." so had full fuel load leaving.

"Recall though that even though the passangers were off they were packed with fuel. 50,000 pounds adds a significant amount of weight. They were probably heavier than the PDX to SEA segment where the hijacking started."

. . .

 

[MrShutter45]

Couple of points on weight, quickly -

heavier out of SEA than from PDX to SEA

still had luggage on board
"Finally, at 7:10 p.m., almost an hour and a half after beginning, the fuel gauge on the 727 showed a full load of 51,500 pounds. Cooper was notified that the refueling was completed..." so had full fuel load leaving.

"Recall though that even though the passangers were off they were packed with fuel. 50,000 pounds adds a significant amount of weight. They were probably heavier than the PDX to SEA segment where the hijacking started."

. . .

I provided a pic of the fuel capacity for the 727-100 on my software, unfortunately it is incorrect only giving a total of 7389 gallons or 49506.5 lbs of fuel (see pic)

the cabin and cockpit weight can be changed all the way down from every seat, but, it is giving a seating arrangement of 21 rows, not 18. I was wondering why I had trouble getting the plane off the ground and noticed that the default overloads the planes by 6,000 lbs :what:

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=fuel.jpg

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=cockpitnite.jpg

 

[MrShutter45]

Just got the repaint of the 727-100

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=repaint-1.jpg

 

[hominid]

auta work right now;-)

 

[hominid]

Let me check, I dont think so, but I will check and get back; if this is
really important I can confirm one (hopfully in short order) - offline ?

I will search my files tonight ...

Thanks. It's not really important. Just a little continuing assessment of Tosaw's "facts." Some of them seem valid. I can understand him being wrong about who flew the plane since Soderlind was on the flight and the actual pilot had a very similar title/function.

 

[MrShutter45]

auta work right now;-)

well, my problem right now is the fact I can't access the control manager to set up the system correctly, when I try to remove weight, the system locks up, I can only take off with a over weighted load? searching for the reason it's doing this.

I guess it will take some time in order to get all of the bugs out of it and up and running correctly. my computer should be fine with this having 260 HD and 3 MB of ram with a nvida 1 gig video//graphics card.

also now finding out that there is a version 2 that is available for upload after version 1 is installed, slowly but surely getting there.

 

[georger]

Georger,

Tosaw said that agent Tom Manning was on the re-enactment flight. I've only found a couple of pix of Manning and neither is good because of the angles.

Here are a couple that may help ? Manning was a large fellow, tall, heavy set.

 

[hominid]

Here are a couple that may help ? Manning was a large fellow, tall, heavy set.

Thanks. I've seen the second one. In it and another I have, the subject does not seem heavy--and also looks like he has almost white hair. The rear view (first pic) doesn't look like the same person. At any rate, neither of them looks like the guy in the group pic.

 

[georger]

Thanks. I've seen the second one. In it and another I have, the subject does not seem heavy--and also looks like he has almost white hair. The rear view (first pic) doesn't look like the same person. At any rate, neither of them looks like the guy in the group pic.

I think you are right - something screwed up. I took them down. That may be Milnes, not Manning. I got them from the same source that published the money find map showing Tina Bar clear over near Troutdale. Something is wrong.

Ive changed the names - see what you think but something says none of these is Manning?

 

[scandi]

I would have been dead long ago with the stunts I have pulled with the simulator :rocker: what I am trying to accomplish is to re fly the flight path and see how close the dropzone is to what we and the FBI have concluded or where the plane actually is after 36 minutes of flight by recreating the steps along the flight path just as 305 did.

my first test flight put the plane on the North edges of Vancouver, but I didn't have the correct weather nor did I follow the stages in altitude as Hominid pointed out, so I'm hoping to pin point as much as possible so I can be as close as I can to actually events of that nite.

Hi MrShutter, There is a round concrete pad under the flight path of any plane going from Seattle to PDX. It has a signal maker of some sort or an electronic beacon that lets airplanes know where they are - can't remember.

But that is where Left Coast with all of his research believed DB jumped, to land close to it. It is out in the middle of the wilderness but has a road that connects to civilization and would have been a timely spot from take-off at Sea Tac for him to land acc to LC.

 

[hominid]

Ive changed the names - see what you think but something says none of these is Manning?

The middle one could be Milnes. Roughly the same build. If Manning was built as you said, it could be him too. I've searched some and not found any pic from other stories. NY Times had his obit, which didn't even say where he died. Maybe something will float by some day.

 

[hominid]

Hi MrShutter, There is a round concrete pad under the flight path of any plane going from Seattle to PDX. It has a signal maker of some sort or an electronic beacon that lets airplanes know where they are - can't remember.

But that is where Left Coast with all of his research believed DB jumped, to land close to it. It is out in the middle of the wilderness but has a road that connects to civilization and would have been a timely spot from take-off at Sea Tac for him to land acc to LC.

The thing you're referring to is not a concrete pad. It is a navigation aid that sits on a concrete pad. It's called a VORTAC. It's like a radio beacon. Shaped like a big hat with a dunce cap on top. The area where DB is thought to have jumped is only a few miles from what was then called the Portland VOR a little SW of Battle Ground, WA (near Vancouver and Portland). There is even some possibility that he was vitually there when he jumped. The low-level planes would fly toward it from a turn up north, then turn near it to go the remaining short distance to Portland International Airport. I'm sure Mr..45 is working on going nearly right over it because pilots follow it rather than watching scenery to tell where they are.

It wasn't really "wilderness." More like "in the countryside." Farm roads all around.

The fact that the thing marked a turning point could help someone sense being there even if the person was blind, so it could have been a good spot for DB to pick.

 

[MrShutter45]

The middle one could be Milnes. Roughly the same build. If Manning was built as you said, it could be him too. I've searched some and not found any pic from other stories. NY Times had his obit, which didn't even say where he died. Maybe something will float by some day.

what was the date on the NY times? there are a lot of Thomas Manning's in the SSDI, a year would help pin point the time of death.

I found this http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1817&dat=19871111&id=1oIfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9aUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3936,3871364

 

[MrShutter45]

The thing you're referring to is not a concrete pad. It is a navigation aid that sits on a concrete pad. It's called a VORTAC. It's like a radio beacon. Shaped like a big hat with a dunce cap on top. The area where DB is thought to have jumped is only a few miles from what was then called the Portland VOR a little SW of Battle Ground, WA (near Vancouver and Portland). There is even some possibility that he was vitually there when he jumped. The low-level planes would fly toward it from a turn up north, then turn near it to go the remaining short distance to Portland International Airport. I'm sure Mr..45 is working on going nearly right over it because pilots follow it rather than watching scenery to tell where they are.

It wasn't really "wilderness." More like "in the countryside." Farm roads all around.

The fact that the thing marked a turning point could help someone sense being there even if the person was blind, so it could have been a good spot for DB to pick.

This one?

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 31 MAY 2012

Location

FAA Identifier: W56
Lat/Long: 45-41-14.2080N / 122-31-18.6710W
45-41.236800N / 122-31.311183W
45.6872800 / -122.5218531
(estimated)
Elevation: 297 ft. / 91 m (estimated)
Variation: 19E (1985)
From city: 4 miles NE of VANCOUVER, WA
Time zone: UTC -7 (UTC -8 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 98682