WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[KaaBoom]

just read the transcripts or just google it. Wiki has that as well. Believe what you want. SPLAT!

Again, I have read the FBI reports, from start to finish. It's not what I want to believe, it's what the reports say. He did not say anything about flying southeast. Nothing. He didn't say anything about any route. This was his exact demands:

"Going to Mexico City -- or anyplace in Mexico --
nonstop -- gear down -- flaps down -- don't go over 10,000
feet altitude -- all cabin lights out -- do not again land
in the States for fuel or any other reason -- no one behind
the first class section".

 

[spikeelvis]

Kaaboom I believe your explanation of how Cooper intended to escape is the most reasonable I have heard.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

While we have been exploring how to get inside DB's head and what his plan was (or wasn't), I've been simultaneously looking at other titanium applications in the 1970s. However it appears that others have too. Here is a new article about some leads that have been generated over the past week. This one is the computer industry.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/investigat...generate-lots-of-interest-new-leads/389179505

I've also been looking at the following uses based on industry in the Pacific Northwest.

Marine and off shore applications of titanium:

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...EIYjAP#v=onepage&q=boat titanium pure&f=false

Use of titanium in power generation:

http://www.energy-tech.com/heat_exchangers/article_21c9977e-50b5-5c57-a743-cee2b90f070f.html

Of these, the boating industry also interests me due to a family name that I am looking at. More to come on that later.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=38039

Posts 19, 21, 28, and 32 are interesting, particularly ones from the pacific northwest. Discussions of titanium's use in boats and welding.

 

[mrseeker]

Again, I have read the FBI reports, from start to finish. It's not what I want to believe, it's what the reports say. He did not say anything about flying southeast. Nothing. He didn't say anything about any route. This was his exact demands:

and in what direction do you need to fly to get to Mexico City. hint: And it is not south over portland. If he was so brilliant, he would have known you cannot fly that plane to Mexico City non stop, he could have even planned out where to refuel, but that was done by the airline. He basically changed the cliche of the time, "take me to cuba" to take me to mexico city. It is a myth that he directed them to fly towards Portland. Some people give him way too much credit like he is some superspy or master criminal. I am not chasing myths. He had no intention of flying anywhere near Mexico and was always going to jump out somewhere in remote Washington. It is my contention it didn't matter where, just not an urban area. You keep making assumption about what he knew and did not know. IF you read the transcripts closely, you will see he had zero input in the route other than to say ok. But as I said, you can consider this pathetic criminal who committed a desperate crime a genius if you want to. My guess is he tied the money to himself, hopped off the aft stairwell and the money and possibly him were caught on the plane somewhere and road it all the way to the Columbia and fell there upstream from Tina Bar. The chase aircraft saw no parachute and my guess it never fully deployed. as I said Splat.

 

[snowleopard]

This is a link to the latest analysis of the tie. It seems there were a lot of elements used in TV screen production, in addition to metalworking/aircraft industries. Stainless steel was(is) used in a wide variety of industries, like pipefitting, marine, cutlery and tools. In the older analysis on the same site, there is mention of spheres of silicon which become airborne when metals are cast. This is quite a variety, which makes me think that maybe this guy was a salesman or technical rep for a company that serviced or sold some type of industrial machinery to multiple industries.

http://www.citizensleuths.com/mccrone1.html

 

[KaaBoom]

and in what direction do you need to fly to get to Mexico City. hint: And it is not south over portland. If he was so brilliant, he would have known you cannot fly that plane to Mexico City non stop, he could have even planned out where to refuel, but that was done by the airline. He basically changed the cliche of the time, "take me to cuba" to take me to mexico city. It is a myth that he directed them to fly towards Portland. Some people give him way too much credit like he is some superspy or master criminal. I am not chasing myths. He had no intention of flying anywhere near Mexico and was always going to jump out somewhere in remote Washington. It is my contention it didn't matter where, just not an urban area. You keep making assumption about what he knew and did not know. IF you read the transcripts closely, you will see he had zero input in the route other than to say ok. But as I said, you can consider this pathetic criminal who committed a desperate crime a genius if you want to. My guess is he tied the money to himself, hopped off the aft stairwell and the money and possibly him were caught on the plane somewhere and road it all the way to the Columbia and fell there upstream from Tina Bar. The chase aircraft saw no parachute and my guess it never fully deployed. as I said Splat.

Flying at 10,000 feet, south is the ONLY direction to get to Mexico. You can't get to Mexico by flying over 14,000 foot mountains at an altitude of 10,000 feet.

If he had no intention of flying the plane near Mexico, then why would he waste his time planning where to refuel? He didn't care where the plane refueled. He only cared that the plane was as far away as possible, before they figured out he jumped over Portland.

As for the chase planes. They were two miles away and it was dark. It would be difficult to see a parachute two miles away in the dark. Especially if they weren't looking for it at that moment.

I agree that he fell into the Columbia River upstream from Tina Bar. I can't think of any other way the money could have ended up on Tina Bar. Unless he survived and planted the money there, which is highly unlikely, and wouldn't make any sense for him to do that. Or someone else found the money and planted it there, which also wouldn't make any sense.

 

[mrseeker]

Flying at 10,000 feet, south is the ONLY direction to get to Mexico. You can't get to Mexico by flying over 14,000 foot mountains at an altitude of 10,000 feet.

If he had no intention of flying the plane near Mexico, then why would he waste his time planning where to refuel? He didn't care where the plane refueled. He only cared that the plane was as far away as possible, before they figured out he jumped over Portland.

As for the chase planes. They were two miles away and it was dark. It would be difficult to see a parachute two miles away in the dark. Especially if they weren't looking for it at that moment.

I agree that he fell into the Columbia River upstream from Tina Bar. I can't think of any other way the money could have ended up on Tina Bar. Unless he survived and planted the money there, which is highly unlikely, and wouldn't make any sense for him to do that. Or someone else found the money and planted it there, which also wouldn't make any sense.

You say it is obvious you would fly south but you have no idea what he knew. As far as why he would plan the route, so it would appear he was really heading for mexico. If Portland was his aim, he could have said fly to portland or San Fran to refuel. You are giving this imbecile way too much credit. Going back to my only point, he did not care which direction they flew in, and his lack of specificity is proof enough, unless you were there to explain to the crew what DB "knew".

 

[chissus]

Let's say DB jumped out the plane about where he wanted to. He must have left a car or supplies somewhere he could walk to? Or maybe he had someone waiting for him on the ground to go get him? There wasn't GPS back them so wouldn't a landmark that could be seen in the dark from a plane be used?

 

[KaaBoom]

You say it is obvious you would fly south but you have no idea what he knew. As far as why he would plan the route, so it would appear he was really heading for mexico. If Portland was his aim, he could have said fly to portland or San Fran to refuel. You are giving this imbecile way too much credit. Going back to my only point, he did not care which direction they flew in, and his lack of specificity is proof enough, unless you were there to explain to the crew what DB "knew".

If he said Portland, it would have removed all the element of surprise. Authorities would have known five minutes later, that he jumped. SF was the crew's first suggestion. He was trying to buy more time. He knew which way they were going to fly in, and he didn't care. He didn't care about anything, except getting the money and getting back to Portland without them knowing.

 

[mrseeker]

If he said Portland, it would have removed all the element of surprise. Authorities would have known five minutes later, that he jumped. SF was the crew's first suggestion. He was trying to buy more time. He knew which way they were going to fly in, and he didn't care. He didn't care about anything, except getting the money and getting back to Portland without them knowing.

The text said the crew first said phx but the airlines said better reno first. db was told they would need to first refuel in reno and then phx and he agreed. Nothing about negotiating. I don't know where you are getting all this. It is clear he just wanted this plane off the ground and he planned to jump off soon after takeoff. He could have easily said take me to Cuba, take me to Cabo, take me to wherever...you are still giving him too much credit. And we are debating this over and over. I am basing my info on what we know. You are basing it on what you think. Big difference. He said fly me to mexico city, they said we need to refuel in Reno, he said ok. He jumped out over washington state somewhere and my guess is he got hung up on the plane. splat.

 

[mrseeker]

Let's say DB jumped out the plane about where he wanted to. He must have left a car or supplies somewhere he could walk to? Or maybe he had someone waiting for him on the ground to go get him? There wasn't GPS back them so wouldn't a landmark that could be seen in the dark from a plane be used?

I don't think he had a car stashed. I think he was desperate and did not have it as well planned out as myth suggests.

 

[KaaBoom]

Let's say DB jumped out the plane about where he wanted to. He must have left a car or supplies somewhere he could walk to? Or maybe he had someone waiting for him on the ground to go get him? There wasn't GPS back them so wouldn't a landmark that could be seen in the dark from a plane be used?

Except, Portland/Vancouver would not be that dark. Portland is a very bright city at night. Even when it's cloudy. Vancouver was likely his landmark. He had already demonstrated to the crew, his ability to identify locations from the air, ie: Tacoma.

As for what his plans were, when he landed, that is a good question. It could have included, walking, hitchhiking, taxi, or public transportation.

 

[KaaBoom]

The text said the crew first said phx but the airlines said better reno first. db was told they would need to first refuel in reno and then phx and he agreed. Nothing about negotiating. I don't know where you are getting all this. It is clear he just wanted this plane off the ground and he planned to jump off soon after takeoff. He could have easily said take me to Cuba, take me to Cabo, take me to wherever...you are still giving him too much credit. And we are debating this over and over. I am basing my info on what we know. You are basing it on what you think. Big difference. He said fly me to mexico city, they said we need to refuel in Reno, he said ok. He jumped out over washington state somewhere and my guess is he got hung up on the plane. splat.

Again you have it all wrong. Please read the FBI reports.

When the crew responded
in the negative due to the distance to Phoenix, Arizona, he (Cooper)
at that time stated the aircraft could make Yuma, Arizona,
or Reno, Nevada, and he preferred a landing in Reno, Nevada.
The crew called back and stated they would proceed to Reno,
Nevada.

It was Cooper who proposed Reno, not the crew. The crew agreed to land in Reno, because that was the only location that Cooper offered that was within their range for fuel.

 

[Boomeroreo]

I found a link and it's who is the real db cooper. He has been in prison look at the similarities of the pictures.


http://dailym.ai/2cbz0bU


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[snowleopard]

Thought this was interesting. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-truly-tie-db-cooper-to-boeing-plot-thickens/

 

[KaaBoom]

Thought this was interesting. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-truly-tie-db-cooper-to-boeing-plot-thickens/

There is just one hitch with D.B. possibly being a Boeing employee.

The SST was being built with titanium alloy because supersonic “skin friction” would heat its hull to many hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit.

But the particles found on the tie were not titanium alloy. They were pure titanium.

Plus, additional testing showed the presence of rare earth elements such as cerium and strontium sulfide.

Well that pretty much blows that theory. A side from that, if it was true, he would have likely been a resident of Washington, not Oregon. So it would have been more convenient for him to hijack a flight, from Seattle, rather than one to Seattle. I think it is highly likely that Cooper was a resident of Portland, or at least he was spending time there when he decided to hijack the plane.

Also, how many managers would that company have had? If it is true, there shouldn't be a lot of suspects. If it was that simple, this case would have been solved a long time ago. I think as someone else here said, Cooper was wearing a disguise. He likely looked nothing like the person associated with D.B. Cooper. He was probably a hippy type, who cut off his hair, dyed it black, and put on a cheap suit and tie to fit the part. The people who knew him in real life, would have never connected him to being D.B Cooper. Otherwise, somebody who knew him would have contacted the FBI, with their suspicions.

 

[Boomeroreo]

Well that pretty much blows that theory. A side from that, if it was true, he would have likely been a resident of Washington, not Oregon. So it would have been more convenient for him to hijack a flight, from Seattle, rather than one to Seattle. I think it is highly likely that Cooper was a resident of Portland, or at least he was spending time there when he decided to hijack the plane.

Also, how many managers would that company have had? If it is true, there shouldn't be a lot of suspects. If it was that simple, this case would have been solved a long time ago. I think as someone else here said, Cooper was wearing a disguise. He likely looked nothing like the person associated with D.B. Cooper. He was probably a hippy type, who cut off his hair, dyed it black, and put on a cheap suit and tie to fit the part. The people who knew him in real life, would have never connected him to being D.B Cooper. Otherwise, somebody who knew him would have contacted the FBI, with their suspicions.

The FBI is involved

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[KaaBoom]

The FBI is involved

And they have given up on the case. My point was, that if D.B. Cooper looked like the drawings of him, somebody would have recognized him and called the FBI and said, hey that picture looks just like John Doe, who worked at Boeing, until he got fired, just before the hijacking. Nobody has seen him since. But that didn't happen. Which means that no one recognized him from that picture. Which means that was a very good disguise.

 

[Niner]

Here's the pictures side by side....