WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #10

[Normcar21]

Goodnight and many thanks to you McCleary

 

[JenniferO]

I'm pretty sure from the way the write up was written that Kylie Ellis is pretty much considered to have killed herself, but the fact that no one saw it happen makes it undetermined.
But I do find it odd that it says that she had no visible signs of trauma. Hadn't she been dead about 6 months? In the water? Probably bu,ping against things, yet they say no obvious trauma. That throws me off, as well as the fact that I have not yet come to terms with a world where we have 12 year old suicide victims. My dad killed himself a year ago come August, so I have a hard time with suicides, especially in someone so young.

Sorry to hear about your father.

 

[Normcar21]

PS - according to Marc Klaas, Lindsey is from Utah (taken from HLN). That was really bothersome, he just stated it before I was going to sign off. Okay, I forgive him, I guess.

 

[scandi]

My stupid GPS picks up Lake Clara. Drives me crazy!

I wonder if it's a ditch that the media/LE/the local kids call a creek. I could see it having a lot of water in it during the rainy season (you know... the other 51 weeks of the year. :crazy: )

Hi girls, When I talked to the man at the city he did mention Wildcat Creek where at some point it joins with Sand Creek. I hadn't studied the map of Wildcat Creek so was unprepared to get the jist of what he was saying. But I didn't get the impression that creek was much of a creek at all. You would know more about that.

About the chunk of land directly south of Mullin's property, I should have said an undeveloped quadrant of lots. The other 3 quadrants are built on. It is probably platted but I'm not sure. And that vacant quadrant lies to the east of 6th and south of Mullin's property with the unpaved road inbetween.

It was the reporter who mentioned the creek and that could have been an error on his part. Sand Creek isn't open till it hits those trees, or thereabouts, and runs thru them to emply into Sand Creek Lake/Pond on the other {south} side of Hwy 8. IMO

 

[McCleary]

Hi girls, When I talked to the man at the city he did mention Wildcat Creek where at some point it joins with Sand Creek. I hadn't studied the map of Wildcat Creek so was unprepared to get the jist of what he was saying. But I didn't get the impression that creek was much of a creek at all. You would know more about that.

About the chunk of land directly south of Mullin's property, I should have said an undeveloped quadrant of lots. The other 3 quadrants are built on. It is probably platted but I'm not sure. And that vacant quadrant lies to the east of 6th and south of Mullin's property with the unpaved road inbetween.

It was the reporter who mentioned the creek and that could have been an error on his part. Sand Creek isn't open till it hits those trees, or thereabouts, and runs thru them to emply into Sand Creek Lake/Pond on the other {south} side of Hwy 8. IMO

Wildcat creek is a much more extensive and larger creek than Sand Creek...if you look at a map of the area you'll see Wildcat run along the west edge of town, cut across north of town, and run up into the hills to the east of town. Wildcat continues down to the Chehalis River.

 

[JenniferO]

Wildcat runs from north of McCleary to south of Elma (Elma is 7 miles from McCleary) so Wildcat is not a small creek.

 

[boondock]

ok..another thing i just remembered....i hear the town drunk should be look at a bit .....(MH)... and i remember reading that the "suspect" had alot of arrests but no sexual offenses...he lives with a real old lady and i guess cares for her...she has been in a nursing home lately so i guess he's be in the house alone for a while...nice looking house btw...but he is highly unliked in Mcclearly

Thanks Seventeenseconds. When you say "he" are you referring to MH? Any idea on where this house is located?

 

[McCleary]

Thanks Seventeenseconds. When you say "he" are you referring to MH? Any idea on where this house is located?

I've never been able to find anything about MH...not even asking people I know in town.

Edit: I take that back...do we know if his middle initial is T?

 

[LotsaLatte]

I've never been able to find anything about MH...not even asking people I know in town.

Edit: I take that back...do we know if his middle initial is T?

I think it is. From what I have found. Might be "Terry"?? Not sure.

 

[distracted]

WA-Kylie Ellis (12) - Missing from Yelm, WA since December 1, 2008 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Has Kylie Ellis been mentioned yet? I think some of the photos of her that I found on the web make her look like Lindsey.

I hadn't heard of her. She does look a lot like Lindsey. She's just a year older, too. I read what little there is in the media about her case and it just doesn't add up. She had been missing for 6 months and was found right after Lindsey went missing. Her body was not decomposed to the extent it should have been after that period of time. It does make you wonder if they two cases are related.

ETA: Glad to hear that all of you up north are finally having a break from the heat.

 

[distracted]

Wasn't Kylies body found? She committed suicide, didn't she? Or am I thinking about someone else?

She was found on June 1, 2009, five days after Lindsey disappeared.

They found a suicide note in December 2008 when she went missing but they didn't find her for six months. That just seems so strange to me. She would have been there all that time and they didn't find her??? It doesn't even sound like they have authenticated the suicide note.

 

[cyberswept]

She was found on June 1, 2009, five days after Lindsey disappeared.

They found a suicide note in December 2008 when she went missing but they didn't find her for six months. That just seems so strange to me. She would have been there all that time and they didn't find her??? It doesn't even sound like they have authenticated the suicide note.

Well this year has been interesting weather wise. It's like we jumped from winter to summer and skipped spring altogether. If her body had been in the water that long, this would be the year that it would have shown the least amount of decomp because we had such cold weather for so long. We were still getting snow in April. That might have helped preserve the body.

LE may also have looked at the body and with no signs of abuse ruled it as undetermined, but a probable suicide. Without any other evidence, that'll probably be how it stays.

I didn't see any articles indicating that the parents thought she was abducted or anything. I think everyone believes it was a suicide.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- A man checking machinery that removes debris from a canal found a girl's body Monday.

Detectives are reviewing their missing person’s cases after the body of a girl was found by a man sorting debris from a power canal near the Nisqually River.

Every day, Wilsey Lytle checks conveyor belts that remove debris from a canal before the water rushes into power generating turbines down below.

He thought there was a mannequin mixed in with the debris on Monday, but then he looked closer he discovered something else.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19628136/detail.html

I brought this up earlier, but I find it very difficult to believe a girl this age committed suicide by jumping off a bridge or into a canal. I can see them writing suicide notes, but for drama queens at that age...it is only a cry for help and they rarely follow through with it, imo.

Another thing is the state of the body. Water would wash away any forensic evidence and there has to be some deterioration after six months. I do not believe that body was fully intact as the reports indicate if she had been there since December.

We investigated water deaths in the River killings and it is possible to drown a victim without any marks. The cause of death has to be ruled suicide/accidental without trauma to the body. However, it does not mean it could not be murder. Without proof...their hands are tied. Having a suicide note to LE is just cause to rule it a suicide without further investigation.

If a victim is drugged and cannot struggle...there will be no marks. It also depends on if the victim was in a position to be able to struggle. If a victim jumps or is pushed off a bridge then is tossed around in the water against things, there has to be impact bruising and possible tears in the skin.

I would have to ask why a child that age would be contemplating suicide in the first place. What was going on in her life that she truly preferred death?

 

[cyberswept]

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- A man checking machinery that removes debris from a canal found a girl's body Monday.

Detectives are reviewing their missing person’s cases after the body of a girl was found by a man sorting debris from a power canal near the Nisqually River.

Every day, Wilsey Lytle checks conveyor belts that remove debris from a canal before the water rushes into power generating turbines down below.

He thought there was a mannequin mixed in with the debris on Monday, but then he looked closer he discovered something else.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19628136/detail.html

I brought this up earlier, but I find it very difficult to believe a girl this age committed suicide by jumping off a bridge or into a canal. I can see them writing suicide notes, but for drama queens at that age...it is only a cry for help and they rarely follow through with it, imo.

Another thing is the state of the body. Water would wash away any forensic evidence and there has to be some deterioration after six months. I do not believe that body was fully intact as the reports indicate if she had been there since December.

We investigated water deaths in the River killings and it is possible to drown a victim without any marks. The cause of death has to be ruled suicide/accidental without trauma to the body. However, it does not mean it could not be murder. Without proof...their hands are tied. Having a suicide note to LE is just cause to rule it a suicide without further investigation.

If a victim is drugged and cannot struggle...there will be no marks. It also depends on if the victim was in a position to be able to struggle. If a victim jumps or is pushed off a bridge then is tossed around in the water against things, there has to be impact bruising and possible tears in the skin.

I would have to ask why a child that age would be contemplating suicide in the first place. What was going on in her life that she truly preferred death?

Not very probable, I agree, but not impossible. If life made sense, we'd all live better. At that age, kids can be teased and ridiculed mercilessly. You never know what anyone's personal situation is like.

I remember a teacher I had in 7th grade. She was not blessed with looks at all, but was a dear sweet person. Some of the kids teased her about her looks constantly. They even gave her the nickname of Dogface Danielson. It must have gotten back around to her. One day I got to class and was sitting there waiting for her to come in. She walked in, clasped her hand over her mouth and left the room in tears. Most of us were like, "What happened?" Well someone had put a can of dog food on her desk. Now here she was a grown woman and the kids were able to get to her. Think how hard it would be to be a 12 year old and be teased. I noticed too that Kylie had braces on, that couldn't have helped either.

 

[LadyBugSTL]

I'm pretty sure from the way the write up was written that Kylie Ellis is pretty much considered to have killed herself, but the fact that no one saw it happen makes it undetermined.
But I do find it odd that it says that she had no visible signs of trauma. Hadn't she been dead about 6 months? In the water? Probably bu,ping against things, yet they say no obvious trauma. That throws me off, as well as the fact that I have not yet come to terms with a world where we have 12 year old suicide victims. My dad killed himself a year ago come August, so I have a hard time with suicides, especially in someone so young.

I'm so sorry NMK!!! :hug:

 

[coastal]

Thank you, Salem, for bringing over my post from the last thread!

 

[Salem]

I'm so sorry NMK!!! :hug:

O/T -

I'm sorry too about your dad, NMKs, hugs to you.

ANd Lady Bug - hope the new meds are working and you are feeling better.

Salem

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Wouldn't that girl's parents have known if she was being bullied at school or have seen signs the girl was having deep depression? She didn't just go throw herself off a bridge without some prior red flags. It is too easy for LE to sweep it under the rug as a suicide. (This is what I believe happened in many cases involving the River killings. Accidental drownings as the MOD and COD are listed and do not take into account other things which happened prior to their deaths.)

I think LE should be looking in that same area for Lindsey in case they are wrong and the girl was actually murdered.

Any news today on Lindsey?

 

[not_my_kids]

Hello everyone.

O/T: My 9 year old stepdaughter was raped by a convicted sex offender in Poplar Bluffs MO, last night. The reason that he was able to get close to her was that although he was convicted of similar crimes in the past, he was not required to register until his 18th birthday and he's only 17. So he basically got a free pass. Thank you MO lawmakers for making this possible.
It never ends.

 

[Kimster]

Hello everyone.

O/T: My 9 year old stepdaughter was raped by a convicted sex offender in Poplar Bluffs MO, last night. The reason that he was able to get close to her was that although he was convicted of similar crimes in the past, he was not required to register until his 18th birthday and he's only 17. So he basically got a free pass. Thank you MO lawmakers for making this possible.
It never ends.

Oh my gosh! I don't even know what to say!!! She is in our prayers, NMK!!!!