WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

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  • KK has indicated her phone was charging, but not unusable.
  • LB and MK did not rent videos. They went to the video store with others from the swim party who did rent video(s).
  • I think I saw a report stating swim time lasted 3-3.5 hours. LN's relative more recently states it was 1.5 hours.
  • Prior evening activity? I've not read anything for that time frame.
  • Based on the current reports and principals comments I perceive the girls probably did not know about KK's shell-gathering plans until the encounter at the K/W house that evening.


Thank you for addressing some of my ???'s. I have some more questions that hopefully you may be more knowledgeable about.

*why did MB go from being concerned for the girls and sent JB with them to not being concerned when JB was sent home for arguing with Lindsey?

*When did MB become aware of the girls' change in plans? MB didn't start looking for Lindsey until she was almost an hour late from her curfew. What changed?

*Had Lindsey and MK gone to the B. house to shower before they went to the video store?

*Was there a sleep over planned for that night that LB and MK weren't invited to? Why?

*Where did Lindsey and MK go from the video store?

Novice Seeker
 
Sure, Knox. At least Forensic Astrology is a new angle for now.
Less tail chasing.
Might as well move it to Theories, though, that we are out of the way.
 
ChuckMaureen, I am not going to quote your entire post here because of the length of it.
In other cases, I have stated that the truth remains constant and can be told over and over again without mistakes. It is the inconsistances in MB and KK's telling of the story that bother me the most.

The next thing that really nothers me is Lindsey's sense of foreboding. She feels something is not right and that something bad is about to happen. Why? What was so different about her life just prior to her disappearance? Something was, IMO.

As for Mark (the town drunk), you would be surprised at just how much someone like this sees and takes in. He may not be as 'out of it' as people think. I would love to know what he may have said to LE.

Anyway, thanks for your post. It is interesting.

*****My posts are my opinion!
BBM
Hi LaLaw 2000 - it's been awhile since I've posted in response to a comment. I've been coming on to support the wonderful volunteers who give so much to Lindsey.

Regarding the inconsistencies of mom Baum and mom K: Please remember that much of the information they have has come from their young children who were most likely traumatized from the loss of Lindsey. Children, through no fault of their own, are terrible reporters of fact. imo - that's why so many unknowns and inconsistencies. Getting all the details regarding the walk to mom K's that night had to have been a nightmare for LE, moms, and everyone. Children have a very hard time sequencing and how they perceive their environment is quite different from how adults see the same environment. jmo

I did a time-line back in July - and there isn't a single change I can make that is based on 'fact'....it is still the same. The same issues we discussed in July, continue to be discussed today. My hope is that something will happen to bring an end to searching for Lindsey. mho

Just some thoughts on why there are inconsistencies. all just my opinion
 
ChuckMaureen:

Nothing stops me from commenting.



I question everyone's recollection, including my own. Don't take it personally.

Hi, jvk,

I do not take posts 'personally' :). Still, we need answers and if I have missed those answers I'm sure over time I'll come across them as I re-read posts from time to time.
 
Thanks, eyes4crime! I am talking about inconsistances that KK wrote on her own blog which I cannot link here. They do exist. There is also another place I cannot link to here that contains inconsistances with both. And these statements are not from the children either. I was concerned about this in the beginning, and I am still concerned about it now. Truth has no inconsistances.

I have been reading and lurking here since the beginning and do appreciate everyone. It is just that when questions are asked about the inconsistances, it is met with resistance. I don't understand why.

O/T: I have read your posts and do appreciate them.
 
Goodnight all. Maybe tomorrow will be Lindsey's day. She is in my thoughts and prayers. This child is still out there somewhere and needs to be brought back home. This forum is to hopefully find what happened to her. We are all here for the same reason - Lindsey Baum.
 
Thank you for addressing some of my ???'s. I have some more questions that hopefully you may be more knowledgeable about.

*why did MB go from being concerned for the girls and sent JB with them to not being concerned when JB was sent home for arguing with Lindsey?

*When did MB become aware of the girls' change in plans? MB didn't start looking for Lindsey until she was almost an hour late from her curfew. What changed?

*Had Lindsey and MK gone to the B. house to shower before they went to the video store?

*Was there a sleep over planned for that night that LB and MK weren't invited to? Why?

*Where did Lindsey and MK go from the video store?


Novice Seeker
  • I am not sure any of us know MB's concerns or lack thereof that evening, nor of the exact reason why JB walked with the girls.
  • MB is quoted as indicating she expected LB and a friend to return to her house that evening. No mention of the 'changed plan'. The closest thing I have read to MB realizing a plan change is MB quoted as indicating she thinks KK misunderstood LB's and MK's request for LB to sleep over at MK's ... request was for Saturday, not Friday.
  • MB began searching by 9:45 pm - 10:00 pm. She brought along LB's dog, Kadence, in the hope the dog would find her. MB's searching was initially limited to on-foot, as her car was not functional. Only after MB had contacted friends did they begin searching by vehicle. After seeing no sign of LB and confirming other friends did not see LB, MB then contacted LE between 10:45 pm - 10:50 pm.
  • The time-line has the swim party group going to the video store after having left the pool, between 8:15 pm - 8:30 pm. The video store owner reports the group seemed in good spirits and that LB and MK did not rent videos. Others did.
  • From the video store, LB and MK returned to LB's house where LB showered. No word if other friends were with them then.
 
It was not reported how she acquired the 'ride'. Odd event, that.

Also, you're welcome, concentric, :blushing: I'm glad you seem to tune in with my posts. I believe everyone on this forum offers forth their own unique levels of knowledge, expertise and opinion and hopefully most of us gain by their presence, especially the person or persons who are our primary focus.

Mushrooms are fascinating. Some are so precise and intricate, as with 'gills' or 'teeth' under their caps while others appear to be of the ugliest edibles on the planet. I should like to know: what led the first person ever to see an old-growth, decayed shelf fungi, to say, "Hey! I shall eat this!"?

O/T, That is akin to eating Dungeness crab once you learn he is a total bottom feeder in the ocean. Ugh! I don't care how delicious he is. :innocent:
 
These are old, but relevant and disturbing:

http://www.seattlepi.com/missing/missing.asp

More than 2,000 people are reported missing in Washington state at any given time. This is a list of the more than 700 who had been missing for at least a year as of December 2002.

http://www.seattlepi.com/missing/

Because of ignorance, indifference or poor training, police here and around the nation fumble missing-person reports.

http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030226Missing_NCIC_Dental.pdf

http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/20030218/NCIC_Overview.pdf

Let's hope the claimed wrongs have long since been corrected.


A list of current resources:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/110191_resources.shtml


McCleary PD - missing person report on LB, and it's incomplete:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=09M0012037
 
O/T, That is akin to eating Dungeness crab once you learn he is a total bottom feeder in the ocean. Ugh! I don't care how delicious he is. :innocent:

Being a bottom-feeder is what makes him 'delicious'.
 
We aren't scheming to start rumors. IMO from posting with others most of us are here to have intelligent discussions, to suggest otherwise would be insulting to the other members. There are strict guidelines as to what can and can't be discussed here which we respect.

As to who took a LDT and who didn't, LE has acknowledged two people have taken this test. Yet, an individual who was interviewed by LE commented that LE was going to be administering the LDT to several people and s/he was waiting their turn. This person has discussed everything else about this case except if s/he took the test. LE hasn't acknowledged they took it. The question is why? Since there has been no confirmation from this person about the LDT then most of us see that as one more inconsistent statement with questions as to why not.

Novice Seeker

Thanks Novice for explaining that you aren't scheming to start rumors. I appreciate you explaining what you really meant. That helps. I was starting to think some were here to push the core group buttons or ruffle some feathers.

It's nice that people here can be polite and non-judgemental. I like that.

My hats off to all of you here today who have weathered the storms. Here's to this weekend, hoping this is the weekend we can find Lindsey. THAT is why we are here and why we've been here for the last 3 months. And THAT is what is important.

On another note....I'm off to have a piece of Cheesecake. Anyone care to join me? I make a mean Cheesecake and you all deserve a piece.

Cheesecake and Coffee....Yummy :)
 
Thanks Novice for explaining that you aren't scheming to start rumors. I appreciate you explaining what you really meant. That helps. I was starting to think some were here to push the core group buttons or ruffle some feathers.

It's nice that people here can be polite and non-judgemental. I like that.

My hats off to all of you here today who have weathered the storms. Here's to this weekend, hoping this is the weekend we can find Lindsey. THAT is why we are here and why we've been here for the last 3 months. And THAT is what is important.

On another note....I'm off to have a piece of Cheesecake. Anyone care to join me? I make a mean Cheesecake and you all deserve a piece.

Cheesecake and Coffee....Yummy :)

Oh Really? Cheesecake, you say?
I'll be there in 45 minutes. :dance:
 
Also...and but, but, but....

I didn't realize MB and KK were POI's or Suspects? When was this determined? I haven't seen LE serving Search Warrants at their homes, or Command Centers at their homes, or seen them dragged in for questioning by LE?

Sheesh. LE has stated they are SATISFIED with their statements. Ever changing time-lines? Since when? Confusion, yes. Outright lying, No.

I would think LE would be all over these people, upside down, sideways and every which way if there were ever changing time lines and lying. I haven't seen that. I've been there for months.

I'm satisfied with LE and their decision re: MB and KK. Ya all are free to sleuth this angle. Me? I prefer to stick with LE and the Astro's here on WS and eliminating these people.

If I'm wrong in the end....well I guess I'll head to the nearest Tattoo parlor and have STUPID put on my forehead for eternity.

All just MHO.
 
Breanna, you have a good way with words, lol. Thanks for all you do :)
 
Just my thoughts and understanding, from my LEO experience, on inconsistencies.

Sometimes what seems like inconsistencies between witnesses are caused by differences in perception. We all perceive things differently for many different reasons.

Sometimes what seems like inconsistencies on the part of a single witness can be from confusion, caused by shock or grief, or they can be caused by memory...

DD
 
Also...and but, but, but....

I didn't realize MB and KK were POI's or Suspects? When was this determined? I haven't seen LE serving Search Warrants at their homes, or Command Centers at their homes, or seen them dragged in for questioning by LE?

Sheesh. LE has stated they are SATISFIED with their statements. Ever changing time-lines? Since when? Confusion, yes. Outright lying, No.

I would think LE would be all over these people, upside down, sideways and every which way if there were ever changing time lines and lying. I haven't seen that. I've been there for months.

I'm satisfied with LE and their decision re: MB and KK. Ya all are free to sleuth this angle. Me? I prefer to stick with LE and the Astro's here on WS and eliminating these people.

If I'm wrong in the end....well I guess I'll head to the nearest Tattoo parlor and have STUPID put on my forehead for eternity.

All just MHO.

Hi, breanna,

Thank you for your comment. 'STUPID'? Really? Don't be so hard on yourself ...:innocent:

I do not believe MB nor KK are intentionally involved with LB's disappearance.

I have read posts that claim 'constantly changing time-lines and lies', and I do not agree with the ascertion. I have responded to such posts in attempt to nullify the claim. However, we are presented with differences.

If LB and MK had plans to sleep over at LB's (based on MB's comments) and the girls presented something different to KK (based on KK's comments), I do not believe that is something with which LE would be comfortable so there must be something more to the story of which I am not aware.

I simply seek to fill in the gaps :waitasec:, but please forgive me if I do not seek those answers from the positioning of Jupiter's third moon against the angle of Saturn's rings, as that science is beyond my comprehension:innocent:
 
Just my thoughts and understanding, from my LEO experience, on inconsistencies.

Sometimes what seems like inconsistencies between witnesses are caused by differences in perception. We all perceive things differently for many different reasons.

Sometimes what seems like inconsistencies on the part of a single witness can be from confusion, caused by shock or grief, or they can be caused by memory...

DD

Hi, DD,

I agree, but let's not exclude participants beyond 'witnesses'.

MB and KK presented differences as to their perception of sleep over plans. I think it is important to know why, therefore, I present questions.

Could the answer simply be attributable to misunderstanding? Certainly, but I prefer not to make the leep to assumption regarding this because the differences play immediately to the time frame of the disappearance.

http://www.helpfindmychild.net/lindsey-baum

Police are asking the public’s assistance in locating a 10-year-old McCleary girl who did not return home Friday night from a visit with a friend. “I just need my daughter home,” said Melissa Baum, mother of Lindsey Baum. “Lindsey, please come home, you’re not in trouble.”

Did LB have a plan differing from what she openly presented to MB / MK / KK? That is the answer I seek, as it might help to confirm or deny a runaway scenario.

Given that LE reports they did not determine unusual contact tracing on 'LB's computer(s)' and cell phone does not eliminate communication via other means.

Is anyone poised to definitively eliminate a runaway scenario?

Surely, LE considers the possibility.
 
I was trying to catch up on some of the reading and came across the post about the fella that JVK spoke with. Got to thinking of questions about this fella. Maybe some of you have the answers.

Photos of points of interest in McCleary - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

JVK 7-2-09 03:27 AM #4


Right after snapping this photo i was approached by 'Mark the (apparent) local drunk. He was quite intoxicated & slurry.

He asked what i was doing and i told him.

He was a bit 'chatty' and slurred out a few things.

Mark portrayed 'Peter' (iirc) (the owner or worker of the Jewelry shop ^, on Maple) as not having a 'great opinion of Lindsey &/or the Baum family. "~That girl was up to 'things'" (Lindsey)

Mark also didn't have such a great opinion. Mark mentioned being aware Lindsey was on the internet. He generally & repeatedly came off disliking Lindsey &/or the family.

Mark added one other thing. Mark said he believes 'Eric' (who lives (according to Marks pointing) in the North-Eastern part of town) 'probably did it' (as in abducting Lindsey) Mark said Eric had conversed with him (@ an unknown time) about 'young girls.

The conversation was strange.. but you couldn't expect much else. At one point he stopped talking almost like he'd just realized he's telling all this to a stranger & briefly thought twice.



1. How does Mark know that Lindsey was on the internet? “That girl was up to things.”
2. How does Mark know how the owner of Jewlery shop feels about the Baums?
3. Did the Baums have some kind of trouble with Jewlery shop or the Jewlery shop have some trouble with the Baums? TH has owned the store for 18 years. Wonders who his employee’s are?
4. How does Mark know Eric J, TH? Are they close friends that each can confide in this Mark. Why would they confide in Mark the goings on’s of others?
5. How does this Mark come to conclusion that he believes Eric who lives on the North Eastern part of town town probably did it. Mark stated he had a conversation with Eric about young girls. Wonder’s which girls they where speaking of. Where there more then one set of girls.
6. Was Mark and Eric both watching these young girls?
7. Why would he suggest that Eric abducted Lindsey?
8. Was something told to him to give him this idea? Or did this Mark witness what happened to Lindsey?
9. Who is Mark? Is that his true name or is he in cognito?
10. Where does this Mark live must be within walking distance since he was walking or was Mark back in town for some reason and knows the towns people and the goings on through a family member? Does he have a house or is he a street person.
11. Did Lindsey have a feeling of someone watching her close proximity example like peeping in windows or was she in contact with someone via internet? Is that how he knew she was up to things? Wonder what things she could have been up to? Could this Mark have also been watching her and why?
12. How old would you say this Mark is! Must be of drinking age to be able to buy alcohol and go to the bar? If he was a steady drinker wonder what kind maybe a joker, clown type drunk or someone that could have aggressive tendencies
13. Eric age, one would have to consider to be of either drinking age or close to it. Most men if they are confiding in each other probably most likely would apt to do it when they are drinking and comparing notes.
14. What did Mark look like, height, weight coloration of hair, eyes, clean cut or shaven, Thin, Tall, Short, heavy set. Did he have any tatooes or scars that could be seen. What was he wearing and why would a person assume he was town drunk or a street person. Was his apparel unkept? Was he unshaven? Disheveled?
15. At first Mark was willing to talk about who he thought might be responsible. What caused him to become a little restless and aggitative and wanting to end the conversation. After, thoughts of what he was saying. Why would one start the conversation and then get upset about what he was saying.
16. If Mark is a street person then how does he get money to buy Alcohol. Does he collect can’s, thief. Or maybe he was working in the town doing some sort of construction. Just staying temporally. At the time Lindsey went missing there was construction being done at the school as well as Beerbower park.
17. What store was he coming out of when he had just purchased the alcohol.
18. Does Mark have history of time spent in jail and for whatever reason. Maybe OUI since he was walking.
19. Soon after Lindsey went missing there where two fella’s that had an accident on the outside of town. No mention of their names in the paper. I had wondered how they faired. I hope they are doing much better. I am kind of curious who these two fella’s where.
http://www.seattlecaraccidentlawyerblog.com/2009/07/man_critically_injured_after_r_1.html

Mark/aka town drunk

30 H, M T
Defendant King Co Superior Ct 88-1-02697-8 05-25-1988
31 H, M T
Respondent Lewis Co Superior 96-3-00192-1 05-20-1996
32 H, MT
Judgment Debtor G H Co Superior 04-9-00137-6 01-23-2004
33 Hl, M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (auk) 120056 04-01-1988
34 H, M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div(auk Djd) C00334298 04-26-2000
35 H, M T
Defendant Elma Municipal C00002604 01-10-2006
36 Hl, M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (pr Fwd) J00065047 04-17-1990
37 H, M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (rdc) C00334298 04-26-2000
38 H, M T
Defendant Kcdc-west Div (sdc) 203029009 07-15-2003
39 H, M T
Defendant Kcdc-west Div (sdc) 203031387 07-30-2003
40 Hl, M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (auk) 127821 06-10-1988
41 H , M T
Defendant Sumner Municipal 12243 09-02-1990
42 H l, M T
Defendant Auburn Municipal 30046 07-09-1992
43 H , M T
Defendant Auburn Municipal 43873 04-18-1994
44 H , M T
Defendant Centralia Municipal 54009 03-12-1996
45 H , M T
Defendant Mccleary Municipal C00001799 06-29-2006
46 H , M T
Defendant Des Moines Municipal C00008889 01-13-2000
47 H , M T
Defendant Des Moines Municipal C00019968 12-05-2007
48 H , M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (rdc) I01554235 04-27-2000
49 H , M T
Defendant Kcdc-so Div (auk) L00022110 11-03-1992
50 H l, M T
Defendant Grays Harbor Dist #1 L00203838 05-19-2006
51 H l, M T
Judgment Debtor King Co Superior Ct 04-9-32522-1 06-14-2004
52 H, M T
Defendant G H Co Superior 03-1-00482-3 09-30-2003
53 Hu , M T
Defendant King Co Superior Ct 03-1-08195-3 09-11-2003
54 H l, M T
Defendant King Co Superior Ct 04-1-08937-5 02-13-2004


i believe but cant confirm that this person may live on 4th st in Mcclearly
 
the story of that night has never made since... the story that was told had holes....if we went back to the very first threads we would see that info there....

its hard....to come full circle again....but that is what happens when a case goes cold....please lets all be patient with one another.....do not take things personal...let the questions be asked....picked apart....that is the way its done....its hard to do that....when you are close to the case....but it has to be done....to move forward again....trying to find something that was over looked the first time around....its sleuthing.....:)

:hug:

'Recklessly Vague'



Please draw the circle

- MOO

recklessly vague....draw circles .....your right....i wish i would have just stayed out of this thread....:(
i thought starting over from the start would help.....see if we can get a complete story that makes since to everyone....some here have started that....its good work....i dont post on other blogs or forums, i dont always hear or read the *rumors*......i tend to only get my info from here....i was trying to be encouraging.....i was trying to help get everyone together again on the same page.....

i think of lindsey daily.....im right next door to her....yet unable do anything to find her and bring her home....i have tried....i wish i could share more...but i cant for the sake of the case.....i appreciate all the hard work that EVERYONE does to help find lindsey!!....i will go back to lurking....i have missed you all!

lindsey im so sorry you are not where you should be....home with your mom!
:hug:
 
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