WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

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I was trying to catch up on some of the reading and came across the post about the fella that JVK spoke with. Got to thinking of questions about this fella. Maybe some of you have the answers.

Photos of points of interest in McCleary - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

JVK 7-2-09 03:27 AM #4


Right after snapping this photo i was approached by 'Mark the (apparent) local drunk. He was quite intoxicated & slurry.

He asked what i was doing and i told him.

He was a bit 'chatty' and slurred out a few things.

Mark portrayed 'Peter' (iirc) (the owner or worker of the Jewelry shop ^, on Maple) as not having a 'great opinion of Lindsey &/or the Baum family. "~That girl was up to 'things'" (Lindsey)

Mark also didn't have such a great opinion. Mark mentioned being aware Lindsey was on the internet. He generally & repeatedly came off disliking Lindsey &/or the family.

Mark added one other thing. Mark said he believes 'Eric' (who lives (according to Marks pointing) in the North-Eastern part of town) 'probably did it' (as in abducting Lindsey) Mark said Eric had conversed with him (@ an unknown time) about 'young girls.

The conversation was strange.. but you couldn't expect much else. At one point he stopped talking almost like he'd just realized he's telling all this to a stranger & briefly thought twice.



1. How does Mark know that Lindsey was on the internet? “That girl was up to things.”
2. How does Mark know how the owner of Jewlery shop feels about the Baums?
3. Did the Baums have some kind of trouble with Jewlery shop or the Jewlery shop have some trouble with the Baums? TH has owned the store for 18 years. Wonders who his employee’s are?
4. How does Mark know Eric J, TH? Are they close friends that each can confide in this Mark. Why would they confide in Mark the goings on’s of others?
5. How does this Mark come to conclusion that he believes Eric who lives on the North Eastern part of town town probably did it. Mark stated he had a conversation with Eric about young girls. Wonder’s which girls they where speaking of. Where there more then one set of girls.
6. Was Mark and Eric both watching these young girls?
7. Why would he suggest that Eric abducted Lindsey?
8. Was something told to him to give him this idea? Or did this Mark witness what happened to Lindsey?
9. Who is Mark? Is that his true name or is he in cognito?
10. Where does this Mark live must be within walking distance since he was walking or was Mark back in town for some reason and knows the towns people and the goings on through a family member? Does he have a house or is he a street person.
11. Did Lindsey have a feeling of someone watching her close proximity example like peeping in windows or was she in contact with someone via internet? Is that how he knew she was up to things? Wonder what things she could have been up to? Could this Mark have also been watching her and why?
12. How old would you say this Mark is! Must be of drinking age to be able to buy alcohol and go to the bar? If he was a steady drinker wonder what kind maybe a joker, clown type drunk or someone that could have aggressive tendencies
13. Eric age, one would have to consider to be of either drinking age or close to it. Most men if they are confiding in each other probably most likely would apt to do it when they are drinking and comparing notes.
14. What did Mark look like, height, weight coloration of hair, eyes, clean cut or shaven, Thin, Tall, Short, heavy set. Did he have any tatooes or scars that could be seen. What was he wearing and why would a person assume he was town drunk or a street person. Was his apparel unkept? Was he unshaven? Disheveled?
15. At first Mark was willing to talk about who he thought might be responsible. What caused him to become a little restless and aggitative and wanting to end the conversation. After, thoughts of what he was saying. Why would one start the conversation and then get upset about what he was saying.
16. If Mark is a street person then how does he get money to buy Alcohol. Does he collect can’s, thief. Or maybe he was working in the town doing some sort of construction. Just staying temporally. At the time Lindsey went missing there was construction being done at the school as well as Beerbower park.
17. What store was he coming out of when he had just purchased the alcohol.
18. Does Mark have history of time spent in jail and for whatever reason. Maybe OUI since he was walking.
19. Soon after Lindsey went missing there where two fella’s that had an accident on the outside of town. No mention of their names in the paper. I had wondered how they faired. I hope they are doing much better. I am kind of curious who these two fella’s where.
http://www.seattlecaraccidentlawyerblog.com/2009/07/man_critically_injured_after_r_1.html
 
Who was that directed at?

You are the one who asked the question, then there were a couple of responses, then I answered also.

jvk, anyone can post their thoughts and opinions on any thread here. That is what I was doing.

I seem to have offended you with my statements. If I have, then I am sorry but I may see things differently than some.

Again, MOO.
 
But who determines what needs to be focused on and the authority to decide what is simply a waste of time? IMO if some of the questions being discussed were answered truthfully and seems consistent with one's statement, behavior then we could move on to another issue or dispute.

I wouldn't dream of insulting others by dictating what should and should not be discussed about any criminal case. We're all adults and have the intelligence to form opinions of what we think is important.

Novice Seeker

Thank you, Novice Seeker!
 
Depending on who you talk to Mark is still somewhat of a mystery.

I've had a certain 'Mark pointed out to me a couple times (based on my description) - But i cannot say if it's the same Mark. I'm leaning towards not.

I'd reported this (at the time) and believe that LE figured out who it was. Not sure on action.
 
// snipped //

Do something for Lindsey

I need/people to:​

- Start looking @ (+/-possibly) (more) abandoned houses, structures & properties.
- Examine diff types of maps closely (aerial, topo, historic)
- More info on other warrants served.
- More info on 'dump sites & hang outs
- More info on arrests/detained individuals in/around McCleary

What i don't need is: Regurgitated rumors or Inaccurate descriptions.

We generally act on everything that's given.

Of the two 'newer' houses on S. 6th St (the lot next to Mullin's, on Google it's still an empty lot but today there stand two houses, mirroring each other?):

Given their extreme proximity to 'Jim Mullin's Creek', was LE or anyone permitted to search them. Hidden rooms? An odd thought I know, but since LE thought it necessary to search the 'creek' (actually, a ditch) 6 times for some particular reason, well ...

Also, this remains unanswered: why did MB and KK expect differing sleep-over scenarios (based on their comments)? I'm not accusing here, just researching why the mothers expected differently. Whom told them what and why?

Another thought: did someone ask for LB to wear her bathing suit that evening? I'm not sure I accept the 'used as a bra' scenario.

Yet another thought: Twilight, the movie, is rated PG-13. Who took LB and whomever else to see the movie, or did they happen to go it alone? Who was ushering or working the booth? Why did LB post her eerie premonitionistic comment under her 'TWILIGHT FREAK' MySpace account, and not her 'DISTURBED' account?

In LB's world, did Twilight replace 'Harry Potter'? Or does she appreciate both equally? MB indicated she was expecting to read Potter that evening with LB and her friend. What was not made clear is whom that friend was supposed to be: MK or someone else?

Based on MB's comments:
  • MB expected LB to return home that evening
  • MB expected to read Potter with LB and her friend
It might then be acceptable to assume the friend was to be MK, since LB and MK were together for much of that day and the previous. BFF, right?

Based on KK's and SW's comments:
  • LB and / or MK asked for LB to sleep over at MK's
  • KK and SW denied the request
Points to ponder:
  • Why the discrepancy between what MB expected and what KK/SW stated?
  • Was a B house sleep over that evening the original plan?
  • If so, when / why did the plan change?
  • Why wasn't MB made aware of the change?
  • Has anyone read or watched MK provide an account of what occurred in her house that evening?
I believe MB commented that she believes KK misunderstood the girls sleep over request, that it was intended for the next evening, Saturday, and that KK thought it was for Friday evening.

So then, why did MK not leave with LB to return to the B house for that evenings sleep over?

I believe KK commented that she [KK] wanted to go shell-gathering the next morning, Saturday, for a candle project and also that SW had the evening off from work and wanted a quiet[er] household that evening, as the explanation for why LB was not permitted to sleep over at the K / W house.

I have not come across commentary from KK where that reason also was given for why MK did not return with LB to the B house. In fact, I have not read anything from KK nor SW confirming that MK was to sleep over at LB's house that evening yet, we have MB indicating that was to be.

Suspicious, yes, but why?
  • LB creates a new MySpace account: TWILIGHT FREAK.
  • Same morning, 2 hours later LB posts 'eerie' comment about "nightmares" and "something bads [sic] gonna [sic] happen".
  • 9 days later MB expects MK [?] to sleep over at her house.
  • JB sent with LB and MK to walk them to MK's house.
  • JB's bike comes along for a portion of the walk.
  • JB's bike is left behind the Shell station.
  • JB sent away from or leaves the girls on his own.
  • Report indicates witness sent JB home.
  • MK states JB left on his own because they were teasing him.
  • Same day, KK states LB wanted to sleep over at her house.
  • Same day, KK/SW state they deny the request.
  • Same day, LB leaves K/W house.
  • Same day, reports indicate 2 witnesses sight LB.
  • Same day, LB disappears.
  • Same day, MB and friends call and search for LB.
  • Same day, LE notified.
  • Next day, additional LE notified.
  • Same day, LE searchers the area (and during on future days, weeks).
  • 2 - 3 days later the bike is retrieved or returned to the B house or to someone living at the house.
  • All h@ck breaks loose across some forums on the Internet.
  • December 3, 2009: LB still missing.
 
ChuckMaureen, I am not going to quote your entire post here because of the length of it.
In other cases, I have stated that the truth remains constant and can be told over and over again without mistakes. It is the inconsistances in MB and KK's telling of the story that bother me the most.

The next thing that really nothers me is Lindsey's sense of foreboding. She feels something is not right and that something bad is about to happen. Why? What was so different about her life just prior to her disappearance? Something was, IMO.

As for Mark (the town drunk), you would be surprised at just how much someone like this sees and takes in. He may not be as 'out of it' as people think. I would love to know what he may have said to LE.

Anyway, thanks for your post. It is interesting.

*****My posts are my opinion!
 
This type of repetition without substance achieves nothing other than bending the truth.

One cannot eat words if they are left hungry. The truth is filling.

Effort provides something. <- Neither Provide -> ..nothing..

I don't feel effort can be used against me.

It's best when mutual.
 
These are the very same points/questions/concern about also. Something else that has bothered me is MB sent JB with the girls b/c she didn't want the girls walking alone. It was MB's understanding the girls were coming right back to stay at the B house. Then a witness sent JB home and texted to MB telling her that JB was sent home and why. So, why wasn't MB concerned anymore about the girls walking back alone? As far as she knew the girls were coming straight back. Yet, MB doesn't begin to look for Lindsey till almost 11:00 that evening. How and when did MB know that MK wasn't coming back with Lindsey? In the articles it mentions MB went looking for Lindsey not Lindsey and MK. Couldn't have been via phone b/c KK has made a point several times to explain her cell phone was being charged.

*what were the girls intent when they rented those videos?
*was there a plan for all of them to watch those videos that evening?
*how long did Lindsey and MB spending swimming at the neighbor's house?
*where did these girls go the evening prior?
*KK explains she didn't allow Lindsey to spend the night b/c of family plans the next morning, then why did the girls take off to MK's house to pick up more clothes to spend another night with Lindsey?

Novice Seeker
 
Depending on who you talk to Mark is still somewhat of a mystery.

I've had a certain 'Mark pointed out to me a couple times (based on my description) - But i cannot say if it's the same Mark. I'm leaning towards not.

I'd reported this (at the time) and believe that LE figured out who it was. Not sure on action.

Thank you JVK. It just kind of baffles me how someone is so familure with so many people and the going's on in that small town of Mccleary and yet not many are familure with him or least they are stating they don't know. I had also wondered if on the first day, when the search center opened, there was mention of two fella's that where a little bit different one had a sling on. I believe it was Konomocha that mentions them in the dream forum. Could this of been one of the fella's in the accident on the logging road. It was mentioned in the article that one was in critical condition. Just kind of curious.
 
This type of repetition without substance achieves nothing other than bending the truth.

One cannot eat words if they are left hungry. The truth is filling.

Effort provides something. <- Neither Provide -> ..nothing..

I don't feel effort can be used against me.

It's best when mutual.


Again, who has the authority to decide what does or does not have substance.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

conflicting statements + intelligent minds= seeking the truth irregardless of
a set amount

It helps resolve issues and hopefully find the child when all tell what is true.

Novice Seeker
 
Great points, Novice Seeker! Those are questions I would love answers to. This is exactly what I am referring to when I cite inconsistances.

And I do not think that attempts to know the truth about the night Lindsey disappeared can be overstated. A lot of times going right back to the beginning is a good thing.

Again - thank you!
 
This type of repetition without substance achieves nothing other than bending the truth.

One cannot eat words if they are left hungry. The truth is filling.

Effort provides something. <- Neither Provide -> ..nothing..

I don't feel effort can be used against me.

It's best when mutual.

I do understand what you are saying, jvk, so please just pass over my posts. I am not asking questions or making statements to aggravate anyone.

I just want to know what has happened to Lindsey.

MOO
 
ChuckMaureen: I appreciate your effort here.

You've asked quite a few questions. I don't have the answer to a lot of them.

I can't comment on discrepancies without them being quoted or linked.
 
These are the very same points/questions/concern about also. Something else that has bothered me is MB sent JB with the girls b/c she didn't want the girls walking alone. It was MB's understanding the girls were coming right back to stay at the B house. Then a witness sent JB home and texted to MB telling her that JB was sent home and why. So, why wasn't MB concerned anymore about the girls walking back alone? As far as she knew the girls were coming straight back. Yet, MB doesn't begin to look for Lindsey till almost 11:00 that evening. How and when did MB know that MK wasn't coming back with Lindsey? In the articles it mentions MB went looking for Lindsey not Lindsey and MK. Couldn't have been via phone b/c KK has made a point several times to explain her cell phone was being charged.

*what were the girls intent when they rented those videos?
*was there a plan for all of them to watch those videos that evening?
*how long did Lindsey and MB spending swimming at the neighbor's house?
*where did these girls go the evening prior?
*KK explains she didn't allow Lindsey to spend the night b/c of family plans the next morning, then why did the girls take off to MK's house to pick up more clothes to spend another night with Lindsey?

Novice Seeker
  • KK has indicated her phone was charging, but not unusable.
  • LB and MK did not rent videos. They went to the video store with others from the swim party who did rent video(s).
  • I think I saw a report stating swim time lasted 3-3.5 hours. LN's relative more recently states it was 1.5 hours.
  • Prior evening activity? I've not read anything for that time frame.
  • Based on the current reports and principals comments I perceive the girls probably did not know about KK's shell-gathering plans until the encounter at the K/W house that evening.
 
the story of that night has never made since... the story that was told had holes....if we went back to the very first threads we would see that info there....

its hard....to come full circle again....but that is what happens when a case goes cold....please lets all be patient with one another.....do not take things personal...let the questions be asked....picked apart....that is the way its done....its hard to do that....when you are close to the case....but it has to be done....to move forward again....trying to find something that was over looked the first time around....its sleuthing.....:)

:hug:
 
ChuckMaureen: I appreciate your effort here.

You've asked quite a few questions. I don't have the answer to a lot of them.

I can't comment on discrepancies without them being quoted or linked.

Hi, jvk,

Some news articles have since been deleted from their source sites, hence, no links. If I find posted copies of the articles, I'll link back to them, although some of the new articles were posted at other sites.

Curious: what prevents you from commenting on the 'discrepancies'? If you can not or do not wish to comment on them, ok, and I expect you simply would state as much but the way you worded your response makes me believe you expect to read something in the linked articles that would provide the answers. Now, if you question my recollection of the information in my posts, well ... :innocent:
 
the story of that night has never made since... the story that was told had holes....if we went back to the very first threads we would see that info there....

'Recklessly Vague'

its hard....to come full circle again....but that is what happens when a case goes cold....

Please draw the circle

- MOO
 
The other day I was looking through some maps of Mccleary area and happened to follow a road that came off of 108 by V&S Rock pit, using loggin rd,and turns into up tW Bulb Farm rd. I noticed there is a Mud lake there. You can also get to it by the cloquim road. I know the Astro's had mentioned a muddy area so was kind of wondering if this could be a possibility what they where talking about.

http://www.fishingworks.com/lakes/washington/mason/shelton-valley/mud-lakes/
 
ChuckMaureen:

Nothing stops me from commenting.

ChuckMaureen said:
Now, if you question my recollection of the information in my posts, well ...

I question everyone's recollection, including my own. Don't take it personally.
 
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