WA WA - Mount Si, WhtMale 30-60, UP14867, camping gear, glasses, Nike shoes, knife, Jun'15

[PaulR]

So that shovel is a snow shovel (no, I didn't know that, we don't get all that much snow around here and when it does snow enough to need a shovel, I stay home.) So, there are people who hike Mt. Si and other peaks when there is snow, especially when there is only snow at the top - usually they bring something like poles and crampons, or snowshoes. Besides more signs that this person wasn't really prepared - I wouldn't want to be wearing tennis shoes hiking at all, especially in the winter - it almost sounds like they had a mind to hike Si one day and didn't let the lack of proper hiking equipment deter them.

That makes me agree with an early post of ANZAC that they weren't from around here. Honestly I think more people around here have snowshoes than snow shovels. I'd go a bit further and suggest they weren't from an area that had a hiking culture, or at least they themselves never really did anything more than a county park.

One question is how he got to Si. The tow records were checked. The car could have been stolen from the trailhead but usually cars just get ransacked. There doesn't seem to be direct bus service, though there is something called Snoqualmie Valley Transportation that does on-demand routes and apparently will bring you there, and of course he could have taken a cab, or maybe found a local to drive him. But then there's that snow shovel - did they take it with them? I can believe someone having it in their trunk and taking it out at the trailhead when another hiker told them that there was snow on the trail, but the towed cars have been checked. If they weren't from the area, that means they made an effort to go to a hardware store to pick up a snow shovel instead of the outdoors store to get some cheap traction cleats (and REI has had rental equipment for a long time, though it looks like the Issaquah location opened years after he died.)

Mount Si may be the most popular mountain hike in the Seattle area, and the peak itself is also a bit famous for being in the opening credits of "Twin Peaks", and that has always drawn a decent number of people to come out to North Bend and Snoqualmie to see the falls and the filming sights. 1994-98 (ANZAC's estimate) would not have been that long after the show's original run ended. Maybe a fan?

 

[LucyOso]

I occasionally wore straps on my glasses, in situations where I was afraid they could fall off and the consequences for that would be bad. I could see someone doing that for a hike, you don't want your glasses flying off into who knows where.

I think we all had a pair of “croakies” in the late 1980s.It looks like he was using these more as a way to keep the wire from hurting his skin. Looks like the arms of the glasses had been broken. It states there was other gear. It be interesting to know specifically what this was. MRE stove? Water filter. Type of backpack, etc. I’m not overly concerned about the Nike’s. It is not uncommon for people on long treks to have a secondary set of footwear. Trail boots and Tevas or running shoes. This say to me that maybe there was another cache of clothes somewhere or a missed pair of hiking boots.

 

[ANZAC]

So that shovel is a snow shovel (no, I didn't know that, we don't get all that much snow around here and when it does snow enough to need a shovel, I stay home.) So, there are people who hike Mt. Si and other peaks when there is snow, especially when there is only snow at the top - usually they bring something like poles and crampons, or snowshoes. Besides more signs that this person wasn't really prepared - I wouldn't want to be wearing tennis shoes hiking at all, especially in the winter - it almost sounds like they had a mind to hike Si one day and didn't let the lack of proper hiking equipment deter them.

We also get people he come here and decide to hike "a mountain" and just pick one at random (the machete story). From out of state, typically.

Honestly I think more people around here have snowshoes than snow shovels. I'd go a bit further and suggest they weren't from an area that had a hiking culture, or at least they themselves never really did anything more than a county park.

The typical use for a snow shovel here is as part of an avalanche kit (to dig yourself or someone else out). Given he lacked all the other pieces my assumption is that the shovel falls into the same category as the guy with the machete, thought it was a good idea and missed the important stuff.

One question is how he got to Si. The tow records were checked. The car could have been stolen from the trailhead but usually cars just get ransacked. There doesn't seem to be direct bus service, though there is something called Snoqualmie Valley Transportation that does on-demand routes and apparently will bring you there, and of course he could have taken a cab, or maybe found a local to drive him.

I am not sure if SVT was around back then. I'll be honest - we've had more than one death investigation where we never figured out how they got to their "final" destination. We may not know the answer here and it may be as innocent as he got a cab or hitchhiked.

But then there's that snow shovel - did they take it with them? I can believe someone having it in their trunk and taking it out at the trailhead when another hiker told them that there was snow on the trail, but the towed cars have been checked.

You can see the snow and the snow level from the road as you drive up to Mt Si. It is a big mountain that really sticks out from the landscape. You can see it from Snoqualmie Falls even, you don't need to be nearby.

If they weren't from the area, that means they made an effort to go to a hardware store to pick up a snow shovel instead of the outdoors store to get some cheap traction cleats (and REI has had rental equipment for a long time, though it looks like the Issaquah location opened years after he died.)

You're overthinking this one -- this is not a hardware store snow shovel, if I recall. If you look at the items he was carrying I believe they could all have been bought at REI, even the watch! I assume he came into town, bought some gear to go hiking which included the thermometer (which is basically useless for a hiker) and the snow shovel. He didn't need a forecast, and didn't need to rent anything. He bought what he thought would be useful. There was an REI in Redmond at least as far back as 1995, I would say that is most likely the place he bought his gear.

1994-98 (ANZAC's estimate) would not have been that long after the show's original run ended. Maybe a fan?

Actually I think that's the ME's estimate, not mine

 

[LucyOso]

We also get people he come here and decide to hike "a mountain" and just pick one at random (the machete story). From out of state, typically.



The typical use for a snow shovel here is as part of an avalanche kit (to dig yourself or someone else out). Given he lacked all the other pieces my assumption is that the shovel falls into the same category as the guy with the machete, thought it was a good idea and missed the important stuff.



I am not sure if SVT was around back then. I'll be honest - we've had more than one death investigation where we never figured out how they got to their "final" destination. We may not know the answer here and it may be as innocent as he got a cab or hitchhiked


You're overthinking this one -- this is not a hardware store snow shovel, if I recall. If you look at the items he was carrying I believe they could all have been bought at REI, even the watch! I assume he came into town, bought some gear to go hiking which included the thermometer (which is basically useless for a hiker) and the snow shovel. He didn't need a forecast, and didn't need to rent anything. He bought what he thought would be useful. There was an REI in Redmond at least as far back as 1995, I would say that is most likely the place he bought his gear.



Actually I think that's the ME's estimate, not mine

Respectfully snipped by me.

1) I’m not familiar with the area, but is there a hike through trail? In Idaho we have a lot of backcountry multi day or week long hikes where we park at one trailhead then emerge elsewhere. As the crow flies it might be 50 miles, but by vehicle 7 hours, around a wilderness area, and in another country entirely.

2) Do we know the contents of his backpack besides what is listed? It states there were more items than listed. I respect your expertise, but as someone who grew up deep in the mountains of Idaho, I disagree with your categorical insistence this person was a rookie, Flatlander, poorly equipped etc. because of a pair or tennis shoes and his death. Some of the greatest mountaineers have lost their lives due to a series of events that all the planning, prep, and protocol in the world could not have prevented. Unless we have a true itemized list of the contents with him, then deduce what could be lost or missing, we can not determine if he was or wasn’t prepared. This seriously could have been a small incident that lead to his death. A minor blister that caused him to pop on his secondary set of shoes and slip down a mountain. That happens on Everest, the simple mistake of stepping out of the tent in boot liners to go to the bathroom, that’s the end.

3) We can’t say if he went to town, bought all his gear in one go or not. That’s your opinion unless every item he owned in that pack etc was the same year. He is still a UID and victim though you’re trying to peg this person into a flatlander stereotype. Previously he was Asian. Then he was from the “third world” which is not even a term people use anymore. Developing country is more PC. In all actuality, there could be a camp somewhere with the totality of his gear yet to be discovered. He’s still a human who deserves respect. IMOO

I grew up in the backcountry where PE was leaving school at 1 to ski, where field trips were snow caving and back country skiing. I’m also a nurse who has worked at little tiny critical access wilderness hospitals. I might have also done a bit of volunteer SAR in my time too. And honestly, while we might joke a bit professionally about City-its and flatlanders, the bulk of folks I’ve known who ended up a wilderness fatality were experienced and ended up in a snowball situation.

BTW Those rei thermo-compasses are handy if you can read a compass and are not confident about lichen growth etc. a compass is a compass, not stupid or worthless at all.

 

[ANZAC]

Respectfully snipped by me.

1) I’m not familiar with the area, but is there a hike through trail? In Idaho we have a lot of backcountry multi day or week long hikes where we park at one trailhead then emerge elsewhere. As the crow flies it might be 50 miles, but by vehicle 7 hours, around a wilderness area, and in another country entirely.

Not at Mt Si. I mean, there are ways to get there hiking but they wouldn't count as a through "trail".
Effectively it is a series of loops and connected trails.

2) Do we know the contents of his backpack besides what is listed? It states there were more items than listed. I respect your expertise, but as someone who grew up deep in the mountains of Idaho, I disagree with your categorical insistence this person was a rookie, Flatlander, poorly equipped etc. because of a pair or tennis shoes and his death. Some of the greatest mountaineers have lost their lives due to a series of events that all the planning, prep, and protocol in the world could not have prevented. Unless we have a true itemized list of the contents with him, then deduce what could be lost or missing, we can not determine if he was or wasn’t prepared. This seriously could have been a small incident that lead to his death. A minor blister that caused him to pop on his secondary set of shoes and slip down a mountain. That happens on Everest, the simple mistake of stepping out of the tent in boot liners to go to the bathroom, that’s the end.

So firstly, this characterization is not a criticism of the subject, but an educated guess about his experience level based on similar subjects we've rescued. Could be totally wrong. Me sharing this is just my opinion, and is intended to direct the search a bit. I do know what else was in his pack, I can't release the information because that's not my job, but I'll say it is unremarkable and entirely consistent with the info already released, and doesn't change my characterization.

3) We can’t say if he went to town, bought all his gear in one go or not. That’s your opinion unless every item he owned in that pack etc was the same year. He is still a UID and victim though you’re trying to peg this person into a flatlander stereotype.

Definitely my opinion and not presented as anything else. I would not use the term flatlander, you did, and as I said, I am in no way trying to criticize him or anyone else we rescue. We help people and don't judge them. In this case it is an observation that I hope will be useful in identifying the person.

You are free to disagree with my opinion about his experience level - but not free to mischaracterize my comments.

Previously he was Asian. Then he was from the “third world” which is not even a term people use anymore. Developing country is more PC. In all actuality, there could be a camp somewhere with the totality of his gear yet to be discovered. He’s still a human who deserves respect. IMOO

Your criticism is completely misplaced. The prior comments about his race or area of origin related to what I thought I'd heard one of the detectives say, but it turned out I misheard it, or it was from another case. My only goal here is to help direct the search for his identity.

BTW Those rei thermo-compasses are handy if you can read a compass and are not confident about lichen growth etc. a compass is a compass, not stupid or worthless at all.

I was talking about the thermometer piece of it as being useless. It doesn't tell you anything you can't feel with your skin. Regardless, that particular item is indicative of someone who was probably not an experienced hiker.

 

[Bohemian]

Just a thought ANZAC — every authentic ‘Swiss Army’ watch has a serial number on the back that can provide useful information:

http://www.watchhunter.org/2017/07/how-to-find-manufacture-date-victorinox-swiss-army-watches.html

http://swissmilitary.ca/watches/authenticity.php

 

[ANZAC]

Back on the experience level, I think it is important because I think this is someone who was from out of the area who either was in town for some other reason (work trip, visiting relatives, tourist) and decided to go for a hike at a nearby mountain, or came to the area to find a place to hike. This is just an opinion based on commonalities with other rescues, nothing more or less.

I should also note that my opinion on why he was there shouldn't be implied to constrain the manner of death to accidental (anything is possible) -- at this point the identity is of course the priority. Thanks again for all the good candidates -- I'm really hopeful one of them is a match.

 

[Bohemian]

A long shot for the decedent:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3299dmca.html

http://charleyproject.org/cases/a/aujay_jonathan.html

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/case_report_html/13451

Had a forest green Jansport backpack and was a runner, seemingly in more ways than one. Bizarre disappearance. Could have been an accidental death, suicide or homicide. He did, however, have the wherewithal to disappear.

 

[ANZAC]

Just a thought ANZAC — every authentic ‘Swiss Army’ watch has a serial number on the back that can provide useful information:

http://www.watchhunter.org/2017/07/how-to-find-manufacture-date-victorinox-swiss-army-watches.html

http://swissmilitary.ca/watches/authenticity.php

I'll ask one of the detectives on this next time I see them; they're both very experienced (Green River Killer etc...) and are very good at the item manufacturer research (shoes, paint, you name it). Now that I'm typing this, I believe they did have a manufacture year on the watch.

 

[Bohemian]

I'll ask one of the detectives on this next time I see them; they're both very experienced (Green River Killer etc...) and are very good at the item manufacturer research (shoes, paint, you name it). Now that I'm typing this, I believe they did have a manufacture year on the watch.

Thanks ANZAC.

 

[LucyOso]

Not at Mt Si. I mean, there are ways to get there hiking but they wouldn't count as a through "trail".
Effectively it is a series of loops and connected trails.



So firstly, this characterization is not a criticism of the subject, but an educated guess about his experience level based on similar subjects we've rescued. Could be totally wrong. Me sharing this is just my opinion, and is intended to direct the search a bit. I do know what else was in his pack, I can't release the information because that's not my job, but I'll say it is unremarkable and entirely consistent with the info already released, and doesn't change my characterization.



Definitely my opinion and not presented as anything else. I would not use the term flatlander, you did, and as I said, I am in no way trying to criticize him or anyone else we rescue. We help people and don't judge them. In this case it is an observation that I hope will be useful in identifying the person.

You are free to disagree with my opinion about his experience level - but not free to mischaracterize my comments.



Your criticism is completely misplaced. The prior comments about his race or area of origin related to what I thought I'd heard one of the detectives say about dental work, but it turned out I misheard it, or it was from another case. My only goal here is to help direct the search for his identity.



I was talking about the thermometer piece of it as being useless. It doesn't tell you anything you can't feel with your skin. Regardless, that particular item is indicative of someone who was probably not an experienced hiker.

I’m not criticizing you at all. That’s your interpretation of what I’m saying. Just noting that certain comments like “he’s the guy who shows up with a machete when he needs a headlamp and a...” does come across as a bit smug and disrespectful to the UID. Am I mischaracterizing that?

Anyway, until we have an itemized list of all contents and deduce what could be missing, we can’t determine his experience level. If we know what was gathered from the site, we could tell what his experience with preparation was and maybe even determine a basic geographical profile based on items he had, other brands, and survival norms elsewhere in the world and country.

I agree the thermometer can be silly at times, not if your checking for certain temperatures, to know if an area melted a bit than refroze, etc. But those zipper keychain compassases are great. I’ve owned a few in the day.

What do you know of the other items he had? Type of pack? Etc? Two heads are better than one.



Also I’m typing on an iPad so who knows what autocorrect is doing...lol

 

[LucyOso]

Back on the experience level, I think it is important because I think this is someone who was from out of the area who either was in town for some other reason (work trip, visiting relatives, tourist) and decided to go for a hike at a nearby mountain, or came to the area to find a place to hike. This is just an opinion based on commonalities with other rescues, nothing more or less.

I should also note that my opinion on why he was there shouldn't be implied to constrain the manner of death to accidental (anything is possible) -- at this point the identity is of course the priority. Thanks again for all the good candidates -- I'm really hopeful one of them is a match.

What about mushroom hunting for profit? Do you see a lot of chanterelles or matsustake there? Someone who is wilderness inclined but flying under the radar?

 

[LucyOso]

I'll ask one of the detectives on this next time I see them; they're both very experienced (Green River Killer etc...) and are very good at the item manufacturer research (shoes, paint, you name it). Now that I'm typing this, I believe they did have a manufacture year on the watch.

Can you have them check that REI keychain as well? Logo dates?

 

[ANZAC]

I’m not criticizing you at all. That’s your interpretation of what I’m saying. Just noting that certain comments like “he’s the guy who shows up with a machete when he needs a headlamp and a...” does come across as a bit smug and disrespectful to the UID. Am I mischaracterizing that?

I'm just going to say stop right there on this whole track - it is not helping identify the subject.
The comment was about people who pack something they think is useful while overlooking the basics, it speaks to experience level.

Anyway, until we have an itemized list of all contents and deduce what could be missing, we can’t determine his experience level.

Our ability to make any determination in most of these cases on WS is less than absolute, but in this case, even with what is disclosed in the original post, my opinion is that this was not an experienced hiker. We rescue a lot of people in this area, I'm definitely going to play the local subject matter expert card on this one. If you want to disagree, great, back it up...

If we know what was gathered from the site, we could tell what his experience with preparation was and maybe even determine a basic geographical profile based on items he had, other brands, and survival norms elsewhere in the world and country.

I can't share any other info on what else he had in the pack. Nothing sinister, and very consistent with the other items. Again, my opinion is he not only could have, but probably bought most of everything in a single trip to REI - and maybe even on the way to Mt Si. (Maybe he owned the backpack already...)

What do you know of the other items he had? Type of pack? Etc? Two heads are better than one.

The pack is a green Jansport as mentioned in original media release from KCSO. I can't share anything else. I'm trying to give you my best "these are my educated guesses based on what I know" without sharing what I know. And they might be wrong so I'm trying to be clear about what is only my opinion.

While we're here, I think it is really, really interesting there was no ID in the wallet. A WA or OR driver's license from around that time would still be in one piece, as would a credit card.

Possibilities:
- subject was robbed before or after death
- subject never had a plastic driver's license or credit card
- subject left them somewhere else (seems less likely)

Back then (and probably now still) there are some countries that make IDs out of less durable material than the typical driver's licenses issued in the US. I still think there is a small chance he was visiting from another country.

 

[ANZAC]

Can you have them check that REI keychain as well? Logo dates?

I'll ask -- this (and the watch) were early questions I asked... how about this, absent some specific response back from me, let's assume for argument's sake all of the hiking related items were sold roughly around 94-95.

I did just come up with another good question - dimensions of the wallet. US wallets are different size (smaller) than some other countries.

 

[ANZAC]

What about mushroom hunting for profit? Do you see a lot of chanterelles or matsustake there? Someone who is wilderness inclined but flying under the radar?

There are plenty of mushroom hunters, but again his gear probably doesn't fit that profile as much.
Most of the mushroom hunters we see are the "personal use" type, and while there are probably mushrooms there, there are better places so I think it less likely. Good question.

 

[ANZAC]

A long shot for the decedent:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3299dmca.html

http://charleyproject.org/cases/a/aujay_jonathan.html

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/case_report_html/13451

Bizarre disappearance.

Bizarre yes, but went missing in California... if it was someone who was driving on a road trip to the Northwest, that would be possible.

Also less likely because DNA is there. (of course not every missing DNA is in CODIS...)

But I did like the fit with the backpack.

 

[PaulR]

We also get people he come here and decide to hike "a mountain" and just pick one at random (the machete story). From out of state, typically.

True as well. Si is a really obvious choice, along with Tiger, since they are close-by and right off I-90. Heck, ask a local what a popular mountain hike is and you'd probably get Si.

The typical use for a snow shovel here is as part of an avalanche kit (to dig yourself or someone else out). Given he lacked all the other pieces my assumption is that the shovel falls into the same category as the guy with the machete, thought it was a good idea and missed the important stuff.

Also to dig out your car. It's possible he had other essentials like water and food, though they should have found at least water bottles. I wouldn't do a hike that long without a Camelbak but that wasn't mentioned.

I am not sure if SVT was around back then. I'll be honest - we've had more than one death investigation where we never figured out how they got to their "final" destination. We may not know the answer here and it may be as innocent as he got a cab or hitchhiked.

They started running in 2003; I'm not sure how confident the police/ME are about date of death, but we've seen it be off before especially for old remains. I'm only thinking about transport since it could help ID him, maybe a cabbie remembers driving someone to Mt. Si with a shovel.

You can see the snow and the snow level from the road as you drive up to Mt Si. It is a big mountain that really sticks out from the landscape. You can see it from Snoqualmie Falls even, you don't need to be nearby.

Very true, but some people (not locals) may assume that since it's a well-known and popular hiking trail, volunteers or park rangers shovel snow and make the trail passable without having the right gear.

You're overthinking this one -- this is not a hardware store snow shovel, if I recall. If you look at the items he was carrying I believe they could all have been bought at REI, even the watch! I assume he came into town, bought some gear to go hiking which included the thermometer (which is basically useless for a hiker) and the snow shovel. He didn't need a forecast, and didn't need to rent anything. He bought what he thought would be useful. There was an REI in Redmond at least as far back as 1995, I would say that is most likely the place he bought his gear.

Well, he got the REI tag from somewhere... which opens up something else. REI always pushes memberships when you go to their store, to get a rebate check. Joining is not very likely if the person is from outside the US and won't be going back to an REI anytime soon, but depending on the cost of the gear, and the pushiness of the clerk, they could have joined REI. Needle in a haystack though. They could have even bought the shovel in Seattle, or (at least according to the web site for the shovel manufacturer) a large number of smaller shops around here.

 

[Bohemian]

Bizarre yes, but went missing in California... if it was someone who was driving on a road trip to the Northwest, that would be possible.

Also less likely because DNA is there. (of course not every missing DNA is in CODIS...)

But I did like the fit with the backpack.

Oops! I ETA while you were replying:

Had a forest green Jansport backpack and was a runner, seemingly in more ways than one. [Bizarre disappearance.] Could have been an accidental death, suicide or homicide. He did, however, have the wherewithal to disappear.

 

[Bohemian]

Is Mt Si or the area surrounding it part of a mountain range, etc, or can it be identified by another term similar to Mount Victoria in the Blue Mountains?