WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[Marknatm]

Previous folks have commented on the uncertainty of the information provided on the cell phone pings.

I think a search of a 1.5 mile radius area around the anomalous cell phone ping be performed when they cannot go up on the mountain. It's near the trailhead from what I can discern.

When i thought about the pings it reminded me of this nuclear accident. On October 15, 1958 a criticality accident occurred at the Boris Kidrich Institute in Yugoslavia. The accident occurred because of a wrong assumption being made. There were 3 neutron detectors running during the experiment. As the reactivity of the system increased one of the detectors continued to increase. The other 2 detectors went up and levelled off like they had in previous experiments conducted that day. The researchers falsely assumed the 1 detector that kept increasing was malfunctioning and turned it off. They were wrong- the experiment went supercritical. The other 2 detectors just couldn't keep up with the neutrons being generated and leveled off when they were saturated giving a false reading. This led to 1 death and 5 others having severe radiation sickness.

How do you know that the 1 lone ping is the anomaly? Maybe the other two pings were the anomaly? It is possible that Sam took an alternate path off the mountain and got lost trying to find the trailhead in the area of the anomalous ping.

 

[sasha17]

Previous folks have commented on the uncertainty of the information provided on the cell phone pings.

I think a search of a 1.5 mile radius area around the anomalous cell phone ping be performed when they cannot go up on the mountain. It's near the trailhead from what I can discern.

When i thought about the pings it reminded me of this nuclear accident. On October 15, 1958 a criticality accident occurred at the Boris Kidrich Institute in Yugoslavia. The accident occurred because of a wrong assumption being made. There were 3 neutron detectors running during the experiment. As the reactivity of the system increased one of the detectors continued to increase. The other 2 detectors went up and levelled off like they had in previous experiments conducted that day. The researchers falsely assumed the 1 detector that kept increasing was malfunctioning and turned it off. They were wrong- the experiment went supercritical. The other 2 detectors just couldn't keep up with the neutrons being generated and leveled off when they were saturated giving a false reading. This led to 1 death and 5 others having severe radiation sickness.

How do you know that the 1 lone ping is the anomaly? Maybe the other two pings were the anomaly? It is possible that Sam took an alternate path off the mountain and got lost trying to find the trailhead in the area of the anomalous ping.

On the radio show that Kevin was on (it's been linked a few times in this thread) he says the anomaly ping was 30 miles to the northeast. It would have been quite a bit further away from the trailhead. I just mapped out approximately where that would be, for reference, starting at the peak (I've attached the map). It's really in the middle of nowhere, where there aren't even any roads.

 

[sasha17]

I just saw this tweet, from the Snohomish County Sheriff. A man is missing hiking near Glacier Peak. If you click the map I just posted one post above this, you can see it's to the east of Vesper Peak.

Snohomish Sheriff on Twitter

 

[Marknatm]

On the radio show that Kevin was on (it's been linked a few times in this thread) he says the anomaly ping was 30 miles to the northeast. It would have been quite a bit further away from the trailhead. I just mapped out approximately where that would be, for reference, starting at the peak (I've attached the map). It's really in the middle of nowhere, where there aren't even any roads.

MY mistake. A map I saw on the FB page had a small square crossed off that had been discounted that was near the trailhead. The pings were in similar squares. Sorry, but thanks for the correction.

 

[i'm someone]

That's just insane! Must have been a mediocre job. Sorry but lifes not a fairy tale and ain't nobody gonna put bread on the table but yourself. Regardless of the outcome of this, when it's all said and done he'll be the one who's playing catch up financially and hunting for work. It's a noble gesture for sure, but geez. I've been curious of Ms Sayers and her BF had jobs at all. It's one thing I have not heard anyone speak of.

They both are real estate agents. I think as far as Bud Carr is concerned, this is his job anyway. Of course there will always be people criticizing, whether everyone is at a "job" or is out on the mountain 24/7. Anyone who is helping find someone, whether dead or alive, is doing a lot more "work" than most, and I wish I could do more than just scan footage. None of what you are saying makes one bit of difference, a person's life is at stake. That's why you haven't heard anyone speaking of their jobs. The mom was criticized for going back with her husband to their jobs. There is no room in these cases for commenting on someone who is trying to cope with a major life tragedy.

 

[sasha17]

MY mistake. A map I saw on the FB page had a small square crossed off that had been discounted that was near the trailhead. The pings were in similar squares. Sorry, but thanks for the correction.

I saw that map, too, and was confused by the square. They must have had some other indication that that area was a possible search area, but then eliminated it. Either that or Kevin misspoke on the radio show and was wrong about the 30 miles distance.

 

[i'm someone]

All of these bit players seem to enjoy this too much. It's so performative, it's hard for me to follow.

Everyone looks positively grim and miserable to me. I see a lot of people saying how "beautiful" the mountain is, and it looks downright snowy, rocky and scary IMO. I haven't seen anyone looking at all happy, the mom is constantly teary/angry, anyone who takes a break from the search is in tears and near breakdown, this is not a fun place to be searching. Try watching some drone footage. I've watched hours of it, I'm probably going to need new glasses when this is over.

 

[i'm someone]

When I first signed up for SAR I was told:
Your first priority is to yourself. Keep yourself functioning and safe. Your second priority is your team. Keep them in the game. That includes dogs and horses. Your final priority is your search subject. That’s how we rolled.

And I have encountered people in the health care industry who follow that reasoning as well. What I can't get my mind around is that if your subject is not the number one priority, how can a search be focused and successful? If everyone viewed the world this way, nothing would ever really get done.

 

[sasha17]

I just checked the weather forecast for the closest weather station up that way (Darrington, WA). Rains arrive tonight and then the forecast is for solid rain, day and night, through Saturday night.

 

[kgreg2529]

I just checked the weather forecast for the closest weather station up that way (Darrington, WA). Rains arrive tonight and then the forecast is for solid rain, day and night, through Saturday night.

Yeah, it’s getting to be that time of year, snow and rain for months and months. I remember how miserable it was in Oregon in it 24/7 from oct to June. Summers were beautiful but the rest of the year was the pits. Ahh, man, I hope they can make some headway soon.

 

[justalittlesunbeam]

And I have encountered people in the health care industry who follow that reasoning as well. What I can't get my mind around is that if your subject is not the number one priority, how can a search be focused and successful? If everyone viewed the world this way, nothing would ever really get done.

I'm in health care. If I go out into the parking lot to drag the gunshot victim inside and I get shot too, we both die. Who has that helped? If SAR gets hurt, lost, in trouble out looking for Sam it pulls resources away from her search and potentially the search for anyone else who is in trouble. They have to look after themselves. It does no one any good to create more victims during a rescue operation. It may sound callous, but it's just reality.

 

[Alethea]

And I have encountered people in the health care industry who follow that reasoning as well. What I can't get my mind around is that if your subject is not the number one priority, how can a search be focused and successful? If everyone viewed the world this way, nothing would ever really get done.

Do you think 100 people should die on the mountain to recover a body? If not, that's why these rules are in place. There will be no one left to rescue the next missing person if every dollar is spent and every human resource is exhausted on one case.

 

[Satchie]

And I have encountered people in the health care industry who follow that reasoning as well. What I can't get my mind around is that if your subject is not the number one priority, how can a search be focused and successful? If everyone viewed the world this way, nothing would ever really get done.

There's that analogy of the airplane announcement: put on your own oxygen mask and then you can help other's put on their's.

But even further, I think both SAR and healthcare are team efforts, and to make an effective team you really need to be able to rely on your colleagues to take care of themselves, know their limits, and so operate at peak effectiveness. That way the team can absolutely focus and maximize results.

 

[Onebest]

SAR Safety First:

Meaning your own. Say you are on a hazardous search and get careless or do something beyond your capabilities, you fall, require medical support, etc. Search efforts for the missing person are now diverted to you, you have become a liability for the whole team.

So Safety first for yourself not only benefits you, it benefits your team and ultimately benefits the lost or missing human.

 

[Onebest]

What? Jon Francis JUST started with them....

Kinda shock a roonie here!! I dont think he is a family spokesperson so not sure if I believe it?? I sure wish Sam could just be found.
JMO

 

[claptrap]

Didnt Jon Francis foundation JUST get there? I thought they were flying home to assemble a bigger team. What could happen that they decide to no longer be involved?

 

[Phantasma2624]

Kinda shock a roonie here!! I dont think he is a family spokesperson so not sure if I believe it?? I sure wish Sam could just be found.
JMO

The admin of their Facebook page has said that Mr. Carr is now leading the search. She shares his posts and updates on the page, so I would take his word for whatever is going on.

 

[Phantasma2624]

Didnt Jon Francis foundation JUST get there? I thought they were flying home to assemble a bigger team. What could happen that they decide to no longer be involved?

They were there last week to speak with the police and the family. They said that they were supposed to give them ideas for how to do the search and would be able to help them with resources. I haven't heard anything about why they would pull out, but there could be several reasons. For example, maybe they also couldn't secure resources or maybe their involvement was always meant to be limited. However, Mr. Carr's posts would suggest that they pulled out suddenly.

 

[GraceG]

I just checked the weather forecast for the closest weather station up that way (Darrington, WA). Rains arrive tonight and then the forecast is for solid rain, day and night, through Saturday night.

Unfortunately, even if Sam managed to find enough food or water to stay alive at high altitude for 5 weeks, wet cold in the 40's with a light jacket and a sports bra is going to mean hypothermia. You can die from it if you get wet and there is wind and it's in the 50's. The forecast is in the 40's. Praying for closure.

 

[ElementalLaura]

They both are real estate agents. I think as far as Bud Carr is concerned, this is his job anyway. Of course there will always be people criticizing, whether everyone is at a "job" or is out on the mountain 24/7. Anyone who is helping find someone, whether dead or alive, is doing a lot more "work" than most, and I wish I could do more than just scan footage. None of what you are saying makes one bit of difference, a person's life is at stake. That's why you haven't heard anyone speaking of their jobs. The mom was criticized for going back with her husband to their jobs. There is no room in these cases for commenting on someone who is trying to cope with a major life tragedy.

Is a person’s life at stake?

Bud Carr posted that it’s a recovery mission and that he’s hoping to find Samantha for the peace of mind of her family.

The hyperbole seems to cut both ways on this case. Bud Carr appears to be an adult of sound mind and body and can certainly choose to forego paid employment to search and be applauded for his selflessness. That does not mean that the SAR pros who have decided not to continue searching are wrong for masking the determination not to do so.