So many interesting ideas and observations here. As to the Crystal Light, I have a friend who used that powder mix (sometimes the product Tang)for his Metamusil. He said it makes the Metamusil a lot easier going down.
WA WA - Seattle, WhtFem 30-50, 159UFWA, alias 'Mary Anderson', copper IUD, breast surgery scars, Oct'96
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This may be waaay out there, but IF this person really wanted to commit suicide (which I'm wondering, because of all the extra "baggage" she brought along) maybe she brought an iron to plug in the wall and bring into the tub with her? (Just noting another possibility)
Julessleuther
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It does appear that the first link is invalid now, I will take it down. That is a shame, as there is so little info already about her...
To make matters worse, there is a current court case in Seattle where the plaintiff is "named" Jane Doe for privacy, so other links are hard to find about this lady... This link from Doe is still valid: http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf
To make matters worse, there is a current court case in Seattle where the plaintiff is "named" Jane Doe for privacy, so other links are hard to find about this lady... This link from Doe is still valid: http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf
carbuff
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I was going to mention the same thing.
Also, I remember that some women trying to diet used to carry packets of Crystal Light with them so they could have it with restaurant meals or at work, since it wasn't commonly available in vending machines or as a fountain drink. It was very easy to just empty a packet into a glass of water.
Women who travel a lot often carry an iron with them so they can keep their clothes neatly pressed -- they don't want to look like they're "living out of suitcases." It's one of the things that makes me think she might have been traveling for at least a few days before she arrived at this place.
Julessleuther
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Yes, velour pant set is like the Juicy Couture sweat suit sets that were popular a few years ago. No ironing required...
Julessleuther
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The address that she gave as registration actually has a zip code of 11102, not 3. Also, there does not appear to be a 132 3rd Avenue in this area. There are 31st Avenues, 30th Avenues etc. There is, in fact, a St. Micheals cemetary that is near 31st Avenue. It is an episcopal cemetary. Perhaps, as someone mentioned above, she recently lost someone who was buried there, and then traveled to Seattle to kill herself.
I did a reverse lookup on the telephone number and it is an unlisted number located at lat: 40.8631 long: -73.9263 it appears to be in the Bronx
I did a reverse lookup on the telephone number and it is an unlisted number located at lat: 40.8631 long: -73.9263 it appears to be in the Bronx
http://www.wahmee.com/misc_kcmeo.pdf
The above story says there was a young man in his 20's who hung himself 12 years earlier at nearby Carkeek Park on the exact same date that this JD took her own life, October 9. The link below has his info and a drawing of him. His features look similar to hers to me. I wonder if it could have been her son? If the ages are right and she was in her between 40 & 50 in 1996, and he was in his 20's in 1984, then the years could be right for that relationship. If she was say 49 in 1996, she would have been born in 1947 , and if the John Doe was 20 in 1984, she would have been 17 at the time of birth. I just find it a real interesting fact that there was a UID suicide on the exact same date in the same area. Just thinking also that if the ages are on the other end of the scale, say she was really closer to 39 and he was closer to 29 at their times of death, then she would have been born in 57 and he in 1955 or thereabouts and they could have been siblings. It also said in the one story that he had olive skin, like Greek or Italian? like they think she is? Does anyone know if the dna's were ever compared?
I wonder if that could explain the maple leaves in the book she left behind. Was it a maple tree this young man hung himself on? Did she walk over to the park to say goodbye (or hello) is that why she had the gloves?
Just wondering if they ever checked dna on these two?
Seattle, Oct. 9, 1984
Case number: 84-1138
A suicide victim found hanging
in a tree off a trail in Carkeek
Park. In his 20s, he had long sideburns
and wore jeans, Pro Wing
sneakers and a black leather jacket
with a fur-like collar. He also wore a pullover
velour gray or purple shirt with reddish stripes. He
stood 5-foot-11 and weighed 160 to 180 pounds.
http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf
The above story says there was a young man in his 20's who hung himself 12 years earlier at nearby Carkeek Park on the exact same date that this JD took her own life, October 9. The link below has his info and a drawing of him. His features look similar to hers to me. I wonder if it could have been her son? If the ages are right and she was in her between 40 & 50 in 1996, and he was in his 20's in 1984, then the years could be right for that relationship. If she was say 49 in 1996, she would have been born in 1947 , and if the John Doe was 20 in 1984, she would have been 17 at the time of birth. I just find it a real interesting fact that there was a UID suicide on the exact same date in the same area. Just thinking also that if the ages are on the other end of the scale, say she was really closer to 39 and he was closer to 29 at their times of death, then she would have been born in 57 and he in 1955 or thereabouts and they could have been siblings. It also said in the one story that he had olive skin, like Greek or Italian? like they think she is? Does anyone know if the dna's were ever compared?
I wonder if that could explain the maple leaves in the book she left behind. Was it a maple tree this young man hung himself on? Did she walk over to the park to say goodbye (or hello) is that why she had the gloves?
Just wondering if they ever checked dna on these two?
Seattle, Oct. 9, 1984
Case number: 84-1138
A suicide victim found hanging
in a tree off a trail in Carkeek
Park. In his 20s, he had long sideburns
and wore jeans, Pro Wing
sneakers and a black leather jacket
with a fur-like collar. He also wore a pullover
velour gray or purple shirt with reddish stripes. He
stood 5-foot-11 and weighed 160 to 180 pounds.
http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf
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websurfer
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:waitasec:
I wondered had she left years before?
gained weight since leaving her family area?Home area? town/city?
She sounds like she may have suffrered from depression too..DAH:angel:
she seems to me like a woman who
was once in a family unit , but from depression
had moved on for one reason or another.
Also most alias' are a reverse or a combination of real initials..
but of course some are way not....
This woman [ I looked for her on THE CHARLEY PROJECT and on DOE}
I searched depression etc...
some women came up also i searched cancer thinking[ perhaps the breast scars ]were from previous cancer op?
Her mode of outfit/dressing implies she may have at one time been in a prominate position?
She seemed even in her dire depression and suicide mode able to make herself clean and well dressed?
I also was wondering if she had lost weight?
either gained or lost..
dyed her hair
cut her hair?
somehow she managed to disguise her appearance so much so that even now nobody knows who she was...
I will be hoping that whomever she belongs to, will report her missing soon...
Debbie Miller
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When I spoke to the ME's office in King County, I was told that her hair color was natural, they also believe that she has ties or was from the east coast being that she gave a NY address. I have searched high and low for this woman as a missing person and can't find anyone to fit her description.
I have also thought of the fact she left her life years before this happened.
If she didn't want to be identified, then why did she sign a name in the first place?
I disagree. To me, the address and phone number that she gave either shows an unfamiliarity with NYC, or it was another attempt to deliberately mislead.
The address that she gave was "132 East Third Street, New York, NY", however she used a Queens ZIP code (11102 or 11103, based on two different reports). Queens addresses do not use "New York, NY" as the city/state, they typically use the neighborhood and state such as "Astoria, NY; Long Island City, NY; Corona, NY, etc. Also, Queens addresses are typically written with a dash, where the first number represents a cross street and the second number is the house number. For example, 26-12 3rd Street would be located on 3rd Street between 26th and 27th Avenues, and it would be building number 12 on that street.
Finally, she gave a telephone number with a 212 area code. At that time, all outerborough phone numbers had a 718 area code; 212 was reserved for Manhattan.
Julessleuther
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I think she is very familiar with that area. When I google earthed the 132 3rd Avenue, Manhattan was straight across as the natural progression of that area, so she very well could be from Manhattan. Further, based on the items found with her, she could have been from a prominent family who already knows what happened to her and does not want to come forward. Or, another scenario is that the area code given for Queens is an ethnic area (Eastern European, I believe) and perhaps maybe her family is foreign and thought she went back to Europe?
O/T: The city I grew up in had a homeless woman who used to ransack peoples trashcans. After she died, the LE found out that she was the daughter of one of the most prominent families, but they never claimed her. She was bi-polar and considered an embarrassment to the family. When it came out in the media, they finally claimed her.
It would be cool if they could do the DNA testing that Benjaman Kyle had done, to pinpoint her family tree.
O/T: The city I grew up in had a homeless woman who used to ransack peoples trashcans. After she died, the LE found out that she was the daughter of one of the most prominent families, but they never claimed her. She was bi-polar and considered an embarrassment to the family. When it came out in the media, they finally claimed her.
It would be cool if they could do the DNA testing that Benjaman Kyle had done, to pinpoint her family tree.
Storm24
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One thing I wondered about in this case was, "Where did the victim come from before checking into the hotel?" I noticed that there was something like less than an hour difference between when she made the reservation and her arrival by cab which suggests she was not from the immediate area. There is a ferry terminal (with daily service between Seattle and Vancouver B.C.) about 2 miles away and its not uncommon for taxis to be called to that area for pick-ups... So that might support the idea she came from Canada. On the other hand, if she arrived by SeaTac airport, her taxi ride could have easily been an hour... Additionally, in the baggage claim area of the airport, there is a large phone kiosk with direct connections to the area hotels - including the Vintage Park Hotel? There are also several ATM's in that baggage area where she could have withdrawn cash for the taxi ride and hotel stay.
But why that specific hotel? It is neither the largest, most luxurious or even most affordable. There are several other hotels within a 3 mile radius that could have just as easily been chosen. Maybe it was the quaint charm of the hotel that helped the decision? Maybe it was chosen not for its amenities but for its proximity to another landmark within the city of Seattle? Directly across the street from this hotel is the U.S. Federal District Courthouse property - landscaped with 4-5 very large Maple trees. During warmer months, it is not unusual for large numbers of office workers to use the adjoining lawn for a quick lunch or smoke break. The material we have indicates that the weather was unseasonably warm when "Mary Anderson" checked into the hotel and that the investigators found a maple leaf in her room pressed between the pages of the "Seattle Weekly"... a local paper found in amongst the newspaper vending machines in front of the same courthouse. So we can at least casually link her to the approximate area...
A couple other thoughts: Many folks have commented on the style, type, and volume of clothes she had hanging in her closet.... I'd suggest that these weren't "travelling clothes" but rather clothes appropriate for a public forum... She had a heavier blue coat and gloves - not something a local would packed given the warmer weather. Why so many if she only had paid for a couple night's stay? And why did she have an iron? The fabric of her clothes isn't the type to be ironed - dry cleaned more likely.
Here's my amateur theory: Mary Anderson was in Seattle to see someone who was going to be in Federal Court for a trial. She had brought along several different outfits that could be worn interchangeable (all "jewel" colors?) because she didn't know exactly how long it would last. The iron was for the clothes not in the room: A dress shirt and suit pants perhaps for a male defendant? Prisoners often rely upon their families (through their attorneys) to drop off "court clothes" to make themselves more presentable during a trial. Making sure that such clothes were neatly pressed seems to fit in with the other aspects of the orderly nature surrounding "Mary." Having such a male in her life would also fit into the findings of the worn IUD?
I wonder about the lack of identification and the lies she wrote during check-in regarding her residence. Positive ID wasn't required for either airline or ferry travel in those days but still there should have been something? Here's another (kinda) far-fetched theory: Mary was very careful about her ID because she didn't want anyone (particularly people in a courtroom - like Federal agents) to know her identity if she was stopped outside the court.... Perhaps she (mistakenly thought) she was also wanted or would be questioned? It is also a particularily common concern and tactic for suspects/groups who see the federal government as overly intrusive or controlling (Freemen, Posse Comitatus, etc). If memory serves me correctly, there were several of those types of cases being processed through that specific courthouse during the same time period. Immigration case? Border smuggling? Those are relatively common for the court, too.
Assuming she brought the poison with her, it seems reasonable that her death had been planned for some time... Can any significance be placed on the exact day/time of her suicide? Following along with the above theory, was a conviction a near certain and it ended after only the second day? The only way I think that would be possible is if the defendant decided to plead guilty on the first day (not uncommon - particularly when prosecutors offer a "last chance to plea" in exchange for a lighter sentence). Or maybe Mary knew someone who was to be sentence and she wanted to see him for one last time before he went away? That would still fit for the iron/clothes part of the theory... Did she then kill herself because she didn't want to live alone without him? Was this a case of falling in love with the "wrong guy" and that's why she wrote that it wasn't anybody's fault... that "it" (the way things had turned out) was her own fault?
Okay - that's enough speculation from this amateur!
But why that specific hotel? It is neither the largest, most luxurious or even most affordable. There are several other hotels within a 3 mile radius that could have just as easily been chosen. Maybe it was the quaint charm of the hotel that helped the decision? Maybe it was chosen not for its amenities but for its proximity to another landmark within the city of Seattle? Directly across the street from this hotel is the U.S. Federal District Courthouse property - landscaped with 4-5 very large Maple trees. During warmer months, it is not unusual for large numbers of office workers to use the adjoining lawn for a quick lunch or smoke break. The material we have indicates that the weather was unseasonably warm when "Mary Anderson" checked into the hotel and that the investigators found a maple leaf in her room pressed between the pages of the "Seattle Weekly"... a local paper found in amongst the newspaper vending machines in front of the same courthouse. So we can at least casually link her to the approximate area...
A couple other thoughts: Many folks have commented on the style, type, and volume of clothes she had hanging in her closet.... I'd suggest that these weren't "travelling clothes" but rather clothes appropriate for a public forum... She had a heavier blue coat and gloves - not something a local would packed given the warmer weather. Why so many if she only had paid for a couple night's stay? And why did she have an iron? The fabric of her clothes isn't the type to be ironed - dry cleaned more likely.
Here's my amateur theory: Mary Anderson was in Seattle to see someone who was going to be in Federal Court for a trial. She had brought along several different outfits that could be worn interchangeable (all "jewel" colors?) because she didn't know exactly how long it would last. The iron was for the clothes not in the room: A dress shirt and suit pants perhaps for a male defendant? Prisoners often rely upon their families (through their attorneys) to drop off "court clothes" to make themselves more presentable during a trial. Making sure that such clothes were neatly pressed seems to fit in with the other aspects of the orderly nature surrounding "Mary." Having such a male in her life would also fit into the findings of the worn IUD?
I wonder about the lack of identification and the lies she wrote during check-in regarding her residence. Positive ID wasn't required for either airline or ferry travel in those days but still there should have been something? Here's another (kinda) far-fetched theory: Mary was very careful about her ID because she didn't want anyone (particularly people in a courtroom - like Federal agents) to know her identity if she was stopped outside the court.... Perhaps she (mistakenly thought) she was also wanted or would be questioned? It is also a particularily common concern and tactic for suspects/groups who see the federal government as overly intrusive or controlling (Freemen, Posse Comitatus, etc). If memory serves me correctly, there were several of those types of cases being processed through that specific courthouse during the same time period. Immigration case? Border smuggling? Those are relatively common for the court, too.
Assuming she brought the poison with her, it seems reasonable that her death had been planned for some time... Can any significance be placed on the exact day/time of her suicide? Following along with the above theory, was a conviction a near certain and it ended after only the second day? The only way I think that would be possible is if the defendant decided to plead guilty on the first day (not uncommon - particularly when prosecutors offer a "last chance to plea" in exchange for a lighter sentence). Or maybe Mary knew someone who was to be sentence and she wanted to see him for one last time before he went away? That would still fit for the iron/clothes part of the theory... Did she then kill herself because she didn't want to live alone without him? Was this a case of falling in love with the "wrong guy" and that's why she wrote that it wasn't anybody's fault... that "it" (the way things had turned out) was her own fault?
Okay - that's enough speculation from this amateur!
Debbie Miller
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On your courthouse theory-- could she have been a witness?
Storm24
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I think so.... She brought along several sets of clothes because she didn't know when she might be called to testify (against a loved one?)? Would have given her reason to be hanging around the courthouse area, reading newspapers and collecting maple leaves. Might also tie in with the theme of "fault" from the suicide note since a courtroom or trial is where "fault" is determined?
The idea of ironing a man's clothes could still tie in if she were a witness for the defendant, too. I wonder if I could get access to the court calendar's for the two or three days? Couldn't be more than three or four trials going on over that time period... She could have been there to testify at a sentencing, too - I would guess the court calendar could fit maybe a dozen of those in during those two days. Long-shot to be sure but manageable. Getting names of witness who testified might be a bit more arduous, but should be able to eliminate a lot of them by their profession, connection to the case, etc...
Appreciate the thoughts, Debbie!
The idea of ironing a man's clothes could still tie in if she were a witness for the defendant, too. I wonder if I could get access to the court calendar's for the two or three days? Couldn't be more than three or four trials going on over that time period... She could have been there to testify at a sentencing, too - I would guess the court calendar could fit maybe a dozen of those in during those two days. Long-shot to be sure but manageable. Getting names of witness who testified might be a bit more arduous, but should be able to eliminate a lot of them by their profession, connection to the case, etc...
Appreciate the thoughts, Debbie!
Debbie Miller
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Storm24,
I am also wondering if there is a way to get ahold of the local papers in that area for the time span she was there and a little before or after that time. There may be headlines that could mean or point to a clue.
I am not sure if the police or ME's office still have the paper that the leaves were in.
I am also wondering if there is a way to get ahold of the local papers in that area for the time span she was there and a little before or after that time. There may be headlines that could mean or point to a clue.
I am not sure if the police or ME's office still have the paper that the leaves were in.
What about this Mary Anderson missing since 1982:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andersen_mary.html
She would have been 37 when our Mary Anderson committed suicide. The height is off, but there is such a wide range on Mary from 1982 that I wonder if who ever filed the report did not know her height so just guessed at it. It seems like she was estranged from her family for a long time.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andersen_mary.html
She would have been 37 when our Mary Anderson committed suicide. The height is off, but there is such a wide range on Mary from 1982 that I wonder if who ever filed the report did not know her height so just guessed at it. It seems like she was estranged from her family for a long time.