Found Safe WA - Seraya Aung Harmon, 2, Pullman, 29 May 2024 *father and daughter went on a fishing trip in Montana but did not return* #2

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NCWatcher said:
BBM

Obviously nobody here knows why NC is out. And while people have put forth different kinds of hypotheses, nobody here knows exactly what she did much less why she did it. But answers to the questions you've posed about NC's willingness to be involved may have something to do with her being out.

I know you said NC being out "reeks of privilege" and maybe it does. Since we don't know why she's out, we can't really know that. But saying that implies if the Aungs were similarly privileged they'd be out too. I don't think that's true. And I don't think anyone thinks NC's role in whatever happened was "equal" to AA's or even equal to his father's. For example, there apparently have been past conflicts with the child's mother that pre-dated NC's involvement with AA. It's been reported AA kept the child weeks past an agreed-upon period in the past. The facts of the case, facts we don't know at this time, likely support much heavier involvement of the Aungs in the crime than NC. Of course, having a good attorney certainly helps so in that way "privilege" helps but it's likely concerns over actions the Aungs might take if they are out have something to do with their being held in jail. I doubt there are similar concerns about NC. And I believe those kinds of concerns entered into decisions about bail.
MOO
Click to expand...
Excellent points!
 
NCWatcher said:
BBM

Obviously nobody here knows why NC is out. And while people have put forth different kinds of hypotheses, nobody here knows exactly what she did much less why she did it. But answers to the questions you've posed about NC's willingness to be involved may have something to do with her being out.

I know you said NC being out "reeks of privilege" and maybe it does. Since we don't know why she's out, we can't really know that. But saying that implies if the Aungs were similarly privileged they'd be out too. I don't think that's true. And I don't think anyone thinks NC's role in whatever happened was "equal" to AA's or even equal to his father's. For example, there apparently have been past conflicts with the child's mother that pre-dated NC's involvement with AA. It's been reported AA kept the child weeks past an agreed-upon period in the past. The facts of the case, facts we don't know at this time, likely support much heavier involvement of the Aungs in the crime than NC. Of course, having a good attorney certainly helps so in that way "privilege" helps but it's likely concerns over actions the Aungs might take if they are out have something to do with their being held in jail. I doubt there are similar concerns about NC. And I believe those kinds of concerns entered into decisions about bail.
MOO
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It's been reported that NC is cooperating with LE and I'm guessing the Aungs are not - I'm figuring that is why she is out and they are behind bars. fwiw.

jmo
 
Public Defenders Represent Both Aungs?
lesleyNOPE said:
NC has a paid private attorney while both of the Aungs are using the public defender system....
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snipped for focus @lesleyNOPE
IIRC early on, some posts here & others soc media said/suggested that son AA came from a family of wealth, privilege, prestige. Owned multiple businesses.
Does not seem to mesh w being rep'ed by public defender.

Am I confusing this case w another?
 
al66pine said:
Public Defenders Represent Both Aungs?

snipped for focus @lesleyNOPE
IIRC early on, some posts here & others soc media said/suggested that son AA came from a family of wealth, privilege, prestige. Owned multiple businesses.
Does not seem to mesh w being rep'ed by public defender.

Am I confusing this case w another?
Click to expand...
Your memory is correct, IMO. There were multiple posts early on that seemed to suggest the Aungs were wealthy. Since both father and son do appear to have qualified for public defenders it appears to me they aren't actually rich. The family may own multiple businesses but there may be a great deal of debt too.

I'm not entirely sure where the idea of the Aungs' wealth came from. But if it started as opinion, the initially-posted MOOs, JMOs, etc were soon forgotten. The notion the Aungs were wealthy seemed to be quickly accepted as fact on WS. Perhaps the apparent wealth of NC's family made it seem more likely her fiance's family would be rich? Perhaps the idea was easily adopted because it made the case more "tragic" and "stereotypical" if it involved a poor struggling but hardworking mom and a rich spoiled and lazy dad? (Of course, we know nothing about what SH and AA are really like. But we may think we do.)

Also though SH and her family members have said things that supported the idea. For example, from a June post from @PommyMommy

Missing 2-Year-Old Seraya Aung's Grandmother Joins Court TV

The grandmother said

"ETA: 22:36 "The custody battle itself, I mean they were in a great position; they had lawyers, we had nothing. We did mediation to settle for 50/50. We were terrified to go up against them with no representation, and so that's what Samara ultimately settled for because they were going for full custody with no visitation for Samara."

The mom has said similar things about the Aungs having plenty of resources re: custody. Of course, sometimes a person has a vested interest in promoting certain "truths." But more importantly, each person in a shared situation has a unique perspective. So that's true of everyone in this case including the grandmother & the mother. And that's fine. What's not fine is accepting what a person says (especially if sympathetic to him/her) as representing "factual truth" when it very well may not. There are other public places the grandmother has made statements about the finances of each family but I don't think they can be discussed here. Regardless, as is true for any other person on the planet, her perspective may not represent objective truth.

Finally, the statement from the Aung family (no longer available online but did used at length on WS) did attempt to draw a sharp contrast between the two families. As I recall, the main differences cited were not couched in terms of finances but one might infer from what was said there were financial differences too. That statement can't be assumed to represent objective truth either, of course.

I don't know what goes on in WA, but in NC a fairly detailed "Affidavit of Indigency" must be completed and sworn to in order to qualify for a public defender or court-appointed attorney. Income, assets AND debts are taken into account as are aspects of the household including number of dependents, and the cost of housing, transportation, food, health insurance, child support, etc. Also, in NC if a person is found guilty of the charges, he/she may be assessed a certain amount to reimburse the state for the legal services provided. So those services may not really be "free."
MOO
 
NCWatcher said:
Your memory is correct, IMO. There were multiple posts early on that seemed to suggest the Aungs were wealthy. Since both father and son do appear to have qualified for public defenders it appears to me they aren't actually rich. The family may own multiple businesses but there may be a great deal of debt too.

I'm not entirely sure where the idea of the Aungs' wealth came from. But if it started as opinion, the initially-posted MOOs, JMOs, etc were soon forgotten. The notion the Aungs were wealthy seemed to be quickly accepted as fact on WS. Perhaps the apparent wealth of NC's family made it seem more likely her fiance's family would be rich? Perhaps the idea was easily adopted because it made the case more "tragic" and "stereotypical" if it involved a poor struggling but hardworking mom and a rich spoiled and lazy dad? (Of course, we know nothing about what SH and AA are really like. But we may think we do.)

Also though SH and her family members have said things that supported the idea. For example, from a June post from @PommyMommy

Missing 2-Year-Old Seraya Aung's Grandmother Joins Court TV

The grandmother said

"ETA: 22:36 "The custody battle itself, I mean they were in a great position; they had lawyers, we had nothing. We did mediation to settle for 50/50. We were terrified to go up against them with no representation, and so that's what Samara ultimately settled for because they were going for full custody with no visitation for Samara."

The mom has said similar things about the Aungs having plenty of resources re: custody. Of course, sometimes a person has a vested interest in promoting certain "truths." But more importantly, each person in a shared situation has a unique perspective. So that's true of everyone in this case including the grandmother & the mother. And that's fine. What's not fine is accepting what a person says (especially if sympathetic to him/her) as representing "factual truth" when it very well may not. There are other public places the grandmother has made statements about the finances of each family but I don't think they can be discussed here. Regardless, as is true for any other person on the planet, her perspective may not represent objective truth.

Finally, the statement from the Aung family (no longer available online but did used at length on WS) did attempt to draw a sharp contrast between the two families. As I recall, the main differences cited were not couched in terms of finances but one might infer from what was said there were financial differences too. That statement can't be assumed to represent objective truth either, of course.

I don't know what goes on in WA, but in NC a fairly detailed "Affidavit of Indigency" must be completed and sworn to in order to qualify for a public defender or court-appointed attorney. Income, assets AND debts are taken into account as are aspects of the household including number of dependents, and the cost of housing, transportation, food, health insurance, child support, etc. Also, in NC if a person is found guilty of the charges, he/she may be assessed a certain amount to reimburse the state for the legal services provided. So those services may not really be "free."
MOO
Click to expand...
@NCWatcher
TYVM for taking time to search early threads & to include link & quotes.

Pretty much as I thought re general, public popular beliefs re financial circumstances of AA himself & the A family: short on facts & long on assumptions.

Thx agn.
 
NCWatcher said:
Your memory is correct, IMO. There were multiple posts early on that seemed to suggest the Aungs were wealthy. Since both father and son do appear to have qualified for public defenders it appears to me they aren't actually rich. The family may own multiple businesses but there may be a great deal of debt too.

I'm not entirely sure where the idea of the Aungs' wealth came from. But if it started as opinion, the initially-posted MOOs, JMOs, etc were soon forgotten. The notion the Aungs were wealthy seemed to be quickly accepted as fact on WS. Perhaps the apparent wealth of NC's family made it seem more likely her fiance's family would be rich? Perhaps the idea was easily adopted because it made the case more "tragic" and "stereotypical" if it involved a poor struggling but hardworking mom and a rich spoiled and lazy dad? (Of course, we know nothing about what SH and AA are really like. But we may think we do.)

Also though SH and her family members have said things that supported the idea. For example, from a June post from @PommyMommy

Missing 2-Year-Old Seraya Aung's Grandmother Joins Court TV

The grandmother said

"ETA: 22:36 "The custody battle itself, I mean they were in a great position; they had lawyers, we had nothing. We did mediation to settle for 50/50. We were terrified to go up against them with no representation, and so that's what Samara ultimately settled for because they were going for full custody with no visitation for Samara."

The mom has said similar things about the Aungs having plenty of resources re: custody. Of course, sometimes a person has a vested interest in promoting certain "truths." But more importantly, each person in a shared situation has a unique perspective. So that's true of everyone in this case including the grandmother & the mother. And that's fine. What's not fine is accepting what a person says (especially if sympathetic to him/her) as representing "factual truth" when it very well may not. There are other public places the grandmother has made statements about the finances of each family but I don't think they can be discussed here. Regardless, as is true for any other person on the planet, her perspective may not represent objective truth.

Finally, the statement from the Aung family (no longer available online but did used at length on WS) did attempt to draw a sharp contrast between the two families. As I recall, the main differences cited were not couched in terms of finances but one might infer from what was said there were financial differences too. That statement can't be assumed to represent objective truth either, of course.

I don't know what goes on in WA, but in NC a fairly detailed "Affidavit of Indigency" must be completed and sworn to in order to qualify for a public defender or court-appointed attorney. Income, assets AND debts are taken into account as are aspects of the household including number of dependents, and the cost of housing, transportation, food, health insurance, child support, etc. Also, in NC if a person is found guilty of the charges, he/she may be assessed a certain amount to reimburse the state for the legal services provided. So those services may not really be "free."
MOO
Click to expand...

Sorry if I missed it, but how do we know the Aungs have public defenders?
 
sasha17 said:
Sorry if I missed it, but how do we know the Aungs have public defenders?
Click to expand...
@sasha17
According to this post:
L

Found Safe Post in thread 'WA - Seraya Aung Harmon, 2, Pullman, 29 May 2024 *father and daughter went on a fishing trip in Montana but did not return* #2'

NC has a paid private attorney while both of the Aungs are using the public defender system. Unfortunately this does typically make a difference in my experience
  • Like
  • Sad

If that post was not factual, I apologize for my post which relied on that info.
A

Found Safe Post in thread 'WA - Seraya Aung Harmon, 2, Pullman, 29 May 2024 *father and daughter went on a fishing trip in Montana but did not return* #2'

Public Defenders Represent Both Aungs?
lesleyNOPE said:
NC has a paid private attorney while both of the Aungs are using the public defender system....
Click to expand...
snipped for focus @lesleyNOPE
IIRC early on, some posts here & others soc media said/suggested that son AA came from a family of wealth, privilege, prestige. Owned multiple businesses.
Does not seem to mesh w being rep'ed by public defender.

Am I confusing this case w another?
  • Like

Regardless there have been many assumptions & stmts. about AA & the A family's financial circumstances.
 
MOO the Aungs are not now and were not at the time of the abduction wealthy. The term well off or wealthy is very relative and dependent entirely on the viewer's opinion of what wealth is. They appear to own a business and the requisite equipment to conduct it. How that business and its assets are titled factors into whether the family could or could not be forced to liquidate them to pay for costs of legal fees. JMO. if the assets are held in a trust or a corporation with multiple partners there may be issues with being unable to access cash for use for legal fees.

It has been a minutes since I looked t info about the Aungs and their finances/business but depending on the viewer, if a viewer sees a business and a lot of vehicles and equipment and a family who has these things holding themselves above that viewer, in the viewer's mind they are rich and have advantages viewer does not.

Does that make them rich?
 
sasha17 said:
Sorry if I missed it, but how do we know the Aungs have public defenders?
Click to expand...
Here's how we know AA has a public defender.
www.pacermonitor.com

USA v. Aung et al (2:24-cr-00106), Washington Eastern District Court

USA v. Aung et al (2:24-cr-00106), Washington Eastern District Court, Filed: 08/07/2024
www.pacermonitor.com www.pacermonitor.com
See Aug 2.

"ORDER APPOINTING FEDERAL DEFENDER as to Aaron Aung (1). On the basis of the sworn financial statement, the Court finds Defendant is financially unable to retain counsel. IT IS ORDERED the Federal Defenders of Eastern Washington are appointed to represent Defendant pursuant to Title 18 United States Code Sec. 3006A. Text entry; no PDF document will issue. This text-only entry constitutes the Court Order on the matter. Signed by Magistrate Judge James A. Goeke. (DD, Judicial Assistant) [2:24-mj-00442-JAG]"

I'm pretty sure it was reported the father also has an appointed attorney but perhaps I'm mistaken. At any rate, my post that was quoted was in response to one asking if earlier on people had decided the Aungs were "rich." My post showed a few potential reasons people came to that conclusion. But before counsel is appointed, I'm pretty sure evidence of need is required-- it's not a matter of merely preferring someone else pay for one's legal services.
MOO
 
Artis said:
I have not been on in a while but looking at this last page, the Aungs are in jail?! What are they charged with?
Click to expand...
Here’s the indictment:

Aaron Aung, his father Jaimes and Aaron’s fiancée Nadia Cole have all been indicted in Federal court. The charges are Conspiracy to commit International Parental Kidnapping and International Parental Kidnapping.
 
AmandaSkis said:
I wonder why she was able to bond out whereas the other two defendants are still in jail?
Click to expand...
I don't remember, was she ever even brought into custody??? I don't remember that happening at all. (Most of my rantings about her have been that she's never been brought into custody since she was named.)

It kind of burns me that JA, an elderly man, is held in custody but NC still gets to sleep in her own bed and live freely when SHE WAS WITH AARON THE ENTIRE TIME IN MEXICO.. until the jig was up.
 
Her seemingly special treatment angers me as well. She is just as guilty as the rest of them. This wasn't just some little lapse in judgement. This was helping kidnap a child and run to a foreign country. If this is how she is treated each time she does a horrible thing, it's no wonder she does horrible things without thinking twice about it. All in my opinion.
 
Lorenathered said:
Her seemingly special treatment angers me as well. She is just as guilty as the rest of them. This wasn't just some little lapse in judgement. This was helping kidnap a child and run to a foreign country. If this is how she is treated each time she does a horrible thing, it's no wonder she does horrible things without thinking twice about it. All in my opinion.
Click to expand...
She was the first one caught and it seems like she talked. Being cooperative and providing info against the other defendants usually brings a better deal.

jmo
 
Lorenathered said:
Her seemingly special treatment angers me as well. She is just as guilty as the rest of them. This wasn't just some little lapse in judgement. This was helping kidnap a child and run to a foreign country. If this is how she is treated each time she does a horrible thing, it's no wonder she does horrible things without thinking twice about it. All in my opinion.
Click to expand...
BBM

We really know very few facts of the case. So I can't really say NC is "just as guilty" as the child's father who had custody when the child was not returned to her mother at the agreed-upon time. I also can't say NC is "just as guilty" as the child's grandfather who apparently provided the car that was used to drive to Mexico, who probably provided other resources and funding, and according to what LE has said, provided aid during the disappearance to help the group continue to elude LE. I'm not saying NC is innocent-- I really don't know the elements of the charges that must be proved against her or know enough actual facts of the case to be able to say. (My gut feeling is she is not "innocent.") But I also strongly suspect the child's paternal family members had a lot more to do with this happening than NC did.

As @Inthedetails says though, a big difference is probably that NC is cooperating with the prosecution. When multiple people are involved in a crime, the first to talk usually benefits. That may not be fair but it is the way things work everywhere.
MOO
 
Updates since 9/18/2024

USA v. Aung et al​

Eastern District of Washington​

2:2024-cr-00106-108885 (waed)

09/26/2024 WAIVER of Speedy Trial by Nadia Erika Cole (3)

09/26/2024 ORDER GRANTING [68] MOTION CONTINUE PRETRIAL AND JURY TRIAL DATES as to Aaron Daniel Aung (1), Jaimes Tin Aung (2), and Nadia Erika Cole (3). The Pretrial Conference/Motion Hearing set for 10/2/2024 is vacated and continued to 1/15/2025 at 9:00 AM in Spokane Courtroom 902 before Judge Rice. The Jury Trial set for 10/15/2024 is vacated and continued to 1/27/2025 at 8:30 AM in Spokane Courtroom 902 before Judge Rice.

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cases/USA-v-Aung-et-al/waed-2:2024-cr-00106-108885
 
PommyMommy said:
Updates since 9/18/2024

USA v. Aung et al​

Eastern District of Washington​

2:2024-cr-00106-108885 (waed)

09/26/2024 WAIVER of Speedy Trial by Nadia Erika Cole (3)

09/26/2024 ORDER GRANTING [68] MOTION CONTINUE PRETRIAL AND JURY TRIAL DATES as to Aaron Daniel Aung (1), Jaimes Tin Aung (2), and Nadia Erika Cole (3). The Pretrial Conference/Motion Hearing set for 10/2/2024 is vacated and continued to 1/15/2025 at 9:00 AM in Spokane Courtroom 902 before Judge Rice. The Jury Trial set for 10/15/2024 is vacated and continued to 1/27/2025 at 8:30 AM in Spokane Courtroom 902 before Judge Rice.

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cases/USA-v-Aung-et-al/waed-2:2024-cr-00106-108885
Click to expand...
So the guys will be in jail until a late January trial? Merry Christmas to NC, I guess.

jmo
 
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