WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

[Soulscape]

Would love to hear Soulscape or Tuba's forensic astrology opinion on this case ...

I think I have found Shantina's birth date and place of birth at http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/r/o/Don-Brown-WA/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-1221.html.

Shantina Kanally - Born on May 6th, 1980 in Portland, Oregon - Married JS in 1998 in Kelso, Washington.

Her mother (TW) is shown to have passed away November 25,2005 in Longview, WA - http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/r/o/Don-Brown-WA/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0503.html

Is there an actual time for when Shantina was last seen?

We provided analysis in our Case Briefings Thread on the Forensic Astrology Forum on 3/17/2010 per post linked below. I had Shantina's DOB in my possession at that time and judged death based on her sunrise natal.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CASE BRIEFINGS only


I was praying Azriel had been spared (did not have his birth data to check) and was very saddened when I learned otherwise.

Thanks,
Soulscape

 

[bobcat]

Searched for the latest news and this is all I could find:

Investigators 'Following up Leads' in Case of Missing Silverdale Woman

Kitsap Sun staff

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

OLYMPIA — Thurston County Sheriff's detectives are still "following up leads" in an effort to find Shantina Smiley, but are not conducting any searches for the missing Silverdale woman.

Detective Lt. Chris Mealy said Monday that investigators are working on several tips that have come into their office. But there's still no sign of Smiley, 29, who disappeared March 13.

Smiley and her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, were headed from Silverdale to her stepfather’s house in Castle Rock when they vanished. The van she was driving, found the next day, was abandoned and partially submerged in water on a remote Puget Sound beach north of Olympia.

Carver's body was found Friday on a beach on the south end of Fox Island, near Gig Harbor. The boy's death was found to be an accidental drowning.

Mealy asks anybody who has information to call the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at (360) 786-5530, or their local law enforcement at 911.

 

[SMK]

Searched for the latest news and this is all I could find:

Thanks for that; I too have found very slim pickings in the news now about Shantina. Why are they not conducting any further water searches?

 

[houndstooth]

I have to go to work shortly. But, wanted first to throw this out. Presumably, the businesses that had video were contacted by LE first because they checked her card purchases and asked to view them. Except for the Mercantile which they would have checked to see because it was on the last road she was on. It was fruitful as provided a TIME STAMP and that may be all it was meant to do. But, it was before she went to the Williams. It was reported on the dubious FOX studio B that she went there after, though. These stops were at 10-10:30 ish. Eyewitnesses saw her and did not detect anything too much amiss. She called her grandfather. She did not tell him her intentions of finding someplace to sleep and resuming her trip in the morning so they would not still be worried and expecting her. She had cash and cards, why not find a motel?

Also, is it possible that other video cameras would have caught her like traffic cams?
Or businesses who have not checked video where she made no purchases? I know where I work there are so many customers on Saturdays that unless they do something
memorable, I am not sure I would remember them. I wonder if LE has asked local businesses to check their video surveillance for other links on their journey because there a periods of time where we don't know how they spent the time particularly from the 6:45 - 8pm ish Handy Pantry stop. This is when she said she would be stopping somewhere to eat but went instead to buy wine an hour later. Then another hour to the diner more or less. Then another hour till the Mercantile. This could have been somewhere drinking. But, we don't really know. Were they all spent just driving aimlessly? Does it take that long from point A to B?

 

[TopTop]

Kind of off topic but....with all the cameras everywhere these days how do people just disappear off the face of the earth?? How do so many crimes go unsolved?? Kind of hard to imagine...

 

[LogicalMinds]

Thanks for that link. I just read it. When put this way, it makes it seem like it was fate, inevitable, like there was no stopping it. The boy had not even been found, yet the astrologer knew they had both drowned. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? If this was "meant to be", then why?

Not really...I am not "psychic" but most of the time I am "right" about these cases...I said that I thought they had drowned right in the beginning of these threads and when we "learned" of the drinking problem I was firm about that

MY own (often pessimistic) predictions are usually based on the simplest answer, Occam's Razor and probably are a lot like what the police think

My grandmother and great aunt from Wales had "the gift"..and told fortunes, tarot etc....

she once told me a secret to her "knowing" what was going to happen...

"what once was, will be">> so it really is very simple to figure this stuff out..

just think of the most likely scenario, think of how OTHER scenarios work out, think of how other similar "cases" ended....and there you have it

I don't put much faith in the mystical however I think some of them have the same ability and are using same technique, they also do this a lot and begin to really "see" patterns and they notice the small things
Then they choose the most logical/simplest answer

I didn't see any "mystics" predict the Jaycee Duggar Case did you??

 

[justme96]

I have to go to work shortly. But, wanted first to throw this out. Presumably, the businesses that had video were contacted by LE first because they checked her card purchases and asked to view them. Except for the Mercantile which they would have checked to see because it was on the last road she was on. It was fruitful as provided a TIME STAMP and that may be all it was meant to do. But, it was before she went to the Williams. It was reported on the dubious FOX studio B that she went there after, though. These stops were at 10-10:30 ish. Eyewitnesses saw her and did not detect anything too much amiss. She called her grandfather. She did not tell him her intentions of finding someplace to sleep and resuming her trip in the morning so they would not still be worried and expecting her. She had cash and cards, why not find a motel?

Also, is it possible that other video cameras would have caught her like traffic cams?
Or businesses who have not checked video where she made no purchases? I know where I work there are so many customers on Saturdays that unless they do something
memorable, I am not sure I would remember them. I wonder if LE has asked local businesses to check their video surveillance for other links on their journey because there a periods of time where we don't know how they spent the time particularly from the 6:45 - 8pm ish Handy Pantry stop. This is when she said she would be stopping somewhere to eat but went instead to buy wine an hour later. Then another hour to the diner more or less. Then another hour till the Mercantile. This could have been somewhere drinking. But, we don't really know. Were they all spent just driving aimlessly? Does it take that long from point A to B?

If she went Hwy16 to I-5 there would be pictures but if she went through Shelton there would not be any pictures. She mentioned in the 6:45 phone call sitting traffic, I would assume that meant she on I-5 they were planning on taking down the offramp at Sprague Ave in Tacoma. The Bridge would have her photo either at the toll both or if she used a Good to Go pass. I don't remember seening one on the van.

 

[SMK]

Not really...I am not "psychic" but most of the time I am "right" about these cases...I said that I thought they had drowned right in the beginning of these threads and when we "learned" of the drinking problem I was firm about that

MY own (often pessimistic) predictions are usually based on the simplest answer, Occam's Razor and probably are a lot like what the police think

My grandmother and great aunt from Wales had "the gift"..and told fortunes, tarot etc....

she once told me a secret to her "knowing" what was going to happen...

"what once was, will be">> so it really is very simple to figure this stuff out..

just think of the most likely scenario, think of how OTHER scenarios work out, think of how other similar "cases" ended....and there you have it

I don't put much faith in the mystical however I think some of them have the same ability and are using same technique, they also do this a lot and begin to really "see" patterns and they notice the small things
Then they choose the most logical/simplest answer

I didn't see any "mystics" predict the Jaycee Duggar Case did you??

Yes, I see what you mean. I understand what your Grandmother meant by "What once was, will be", and now that you state it that way, I can see this even with tragedies in my own family: A collision course was kept to, and so the end was obvious. I just feel that considering Shantina had gone back to college, graduated with honors, obviously loved the boy - this was a very extreme way to wind up, all gone, in a night.....

 

[RubyRed]

REMEMBERING AZRIEL CARVER

A benefit event in memory of Azriel Carver will be held April 18th at "Macaroons" in Cheektowaga.

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/88741377.html

 

[SMK]

Mealy said there were no more clues to report Saturday. Now that Azriel’s body has been found, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office’s predominate theory — though not the only one — is that Smiley never got off the beach and wound up in the water, too. There were no sightings, and bloodhounds didn’t pick up scents away from the beach.

Based on how far out on the beach the van was found, it arrived there when the tide was at its lowest point, Mealy said. The water rose and washed them away. How that happened, nobody’s sure.

“The current is ferocious there,” Mealy said. “It’s not inconceivable at night, if one is disoriented or not thinking clearly, to wind up getting swept away by the water.”
Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/...land-lake-woman-pauses-weekend/#ixzz0j1S8Ucov

 

[sorrell skye]

I have to go to work shortly. But, wanted first to throw this out. Presumably, the businesses that had video were contacted by LE first because they checked her card purchases and asked to view them. Except for the Mercantile which they would have checked to see because it was on the last road she was on. It was fruitful as provided a TIME STAMP and that may be all it was meant to do. But, it was before she went to the Williams. It was reported on the dubious FOX studio B that she went there after, though. These stops were at 10-10:30 ish. Eyewitnesses saw her and did not detect anything too much amiss. She called her grandfather. She did not tell him her intentions of finding someplace to sleep and resuming her trip in the morning so they would not still be worried and expecting her. She had cash and cards, why not find a motel?

Also, is it possible that other video cameras would have caught her like traffic cams?
Or businesses who have not checked video where she made no purchases? I know where I work there are so many customers on Saturdays that unless they do something
memorable, I am not sure I would remember them. I wonder if LE has asked local businesses to check their video surveillance for other links on their journey because there a periods of time where we don't know how they spent the time particularly from the 6:45 - 8pm ish Handy Pantry stop. This is when she said she would be stopping somewhere to eat but went instead to buy wine an hour later. Then another hour to the diner more or less. Then another hour till the Mercantile. This could have been somewhere drinking. But, we don't really know. Were they all spent just driving aimlessly? Does it take that long from point A to B?

BBM

1. Good point - she had the means to pay for a hotel room if she was too tired to continue on to Castle Rock, or had indeed been drinking and wanted someplace to sleep it off. Why not check into a hotel for the night? Someplace safe, warm, dry...

2. IMO, it doesn't take that long to drive from point A to point B. When I look at the map of her last known locations, they're all in proximity to one another, not hours apart.

Going to a secluded, remote, private beach to sleep makes no sense - especially since it was private property - if she was trying to avoid getting busted for a DUI. There was actually more risk of that, since it was private property and one of the two neighbors who share that beach could have called the police on her for trespassing on their shellfish beds.

 

[SMK]

REMEMBERING AZRIEL CARVER

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/88741377.html

So sad. Thanks for that.

 

[SMK]

BBM

1. Good point - she had the means to pay for a hotel room if she was too tired to continue on to Castle Rock, or had indeed been drinking and wanted someplace to sleep it off. Why not check into a hotel for the night? Someplace safe, warm, dry...

2. IMO, it doesn't take that long to drive from point A to point B. When I look at the map of her last known locations, they're all in proximity to one another, not hours apart.

Going to a secluded, remote, private beach to sleep makes no sense - especially since it was private property - if she was trying to avoid getting busted for a DUI. There was actually more risk of that, since it was private property and one of the two neighbors who share that beach could have called the police on her for trespassing on their shellfish beds.

Yes, now that I see what you are saying here, I am more confused than ever. Perhaps she felt if she went to a motel/hotel, she would have to explain to all that she really was not going to make this visit to the stepfamily's house? Perhaps she felt it would be an unjustified expense (altho with a child, it would NOT be) or that hotel people would see she was intoxicated? Perhaps she did not know about private beach laws, and shellfish laws, and thought, as a young person still in her 20s, that the beach was there for anyone ( it took me into adulthood to figure out these things). Other than these ideas, this would start to point to a deliberate hiding or suicide....

 

[Lipin One]

BBM

That makes sense - if the van had been "completely submerged", as the 911 caller claimed, how could the sand have still been on the windshield in such a distinct pattern when it was found?

Does anyone still have that photo of the van's windshield?

I think I remember an article or two quoting LE saying the water was just at seat level.

AFAIK, the mud would fling up and forth if the wheels were turning back (backing up or trying to get unstuck by backing up.)

So, my question now is could the mud be from a car driving in front of the van? You know, splashes from a car driving in mud/wet sand, ahead of the van.

 

[LogicalMinds]

This may be a confusing or even annoying observation...but...the truth is that ONCE an alcoholic "picks up" there is NO rhyme or reason to anything they might do

logic, good choices, rational thinking all goes out the window

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, getting ONLY worse, never better...when a person is not drinking their disease can be increasing and will only "appear" once they pick up the first drink

Alcoholics can be the nicest people in the world, loving,caring, intelligent, kind, generous....and once they pick up the first drink it all goes down the tubes
I believe Shantina loved her little boy...but her ability to care for him or protect him was nill once she started drinking. The booze would cloud her mind and convince her that her horrible choices were "good". He was too young and not prepared to make a stand...kids like him love their parents and I think mostly just hope for the best, they also often learn to "cope" or withdraw and just wait out the bad times. It is simply a tragedy

it can go very fast

when you have lived with people like this you learn to say "why ask why"..

the alcoholic picks up a drink..and the drink then picks up him/her and away they go

rent a hotel room?? call for help?? these are rational ideas but when they have alcohol in their bloodstream rational thought goes away

there is no explanation for some of the stupid and/or dangerous things they might do

my neighbors alcoholic (and bi polar) son went out into a hurricaine ...just to see what it felt like...he crawled and slid back into their house , wet, battered, and angry..and held them pretty much hostage all during the duration (and we have NO 911 during a full storm so they were stuck and lucky they all lived)

there is NO telling what dangerous or foolish or even ridiculous things an alcoholic might do when they pick up a drink

trying to "figure it out" will only make NON alcoholic people dizzy and confused and sad

JMO of course

 

[SMK]

This may be a confusing or even annoying observation...but...the truth is that ONCE an alcoholic "picks up" there is NO rhyme or reason to anything they might do

logic, good choices, rational thinking all goes out the window

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, getting ONLY worse, never better...when a person is not drinking their disease can be increasing and will only "appear" once they pick up the first drink

Alcoholics can be the nicest people in the world, loving,caring, intelligent, kind, generous....and once they pick up the first drink it all goes down the tubes
I believe Shantina loved her little boy...but her ability to care for him or protect him was nill once she started drinking. The booze would cloud her mind and convince her that her horrible choices were "good". He was too young and not prepared to make a stand...kids like him love their parents and I think mostly just hope for the best, they also often learn to "cope" or withdraw and just wait out the bad times. It is simply a tragedy

it can go very fast

when you have lived with people like this you learn to say "why ask why"..

the alcoholic picks up a drink..and the drink then picks up him/her and away they go

rent a hotel room?? call for help?? these are rational ideas but when they have alcohol in their bloodstream rational thought goes away

there is no explanation for some of the stupid and/or dangerous things they might do

my neighbors alcoholic (and bi polar) son went out into a hurricaine ...just to see what it felt like...he crawled and slid back into their house , wet, battered, and angry..and held them pretty much hostage all during the duration (and we have NO 911 during a full storm so they were stuck and lucky they all lived)

there is NO telling what dangerous or foolish or even ridiculous things an alcoholic might do when they pick up a drink

trying to "figure it out" will only make NON alcoholic people dizzy and confused and sad

JMO of course

I think you make some really clarifying points here, which we often forget. Thank you. You are right in all you say. Once the drinking starts , it is as if a twin who is both stupid and evil has taken over. She may have wanted to avoid ALL rational people, including rational motel clerks , etc. And just wanted to hang at the beach until morning when she could go back home. Her little boy was a captive audience. If he had been 13 , perhaps he could have gotten help. But at his age, as you say , it was "hope for the best". This woman should not have taken a trip alone with her boy. Someone should have accompanied them.

 

[floridaheather]

When I was a child, I was abt 8, I had just gone through 2 weeks of swimming lessons & was so proud. Later that summer I was invited to a bday party at a large lake. Children of ages abt 7-13 were there. I was following a bunch of other kids when I jumped off a dock behind them. I probably only had to swim abt 10-12 feet to get to the ladder they were all swimming over to & then up on the dock again (the dock was a large perimeter type w/ several 'arms' extending out into the lake that had diving boards and ladders attached on them--it was one of these that I was swimming to). I started to feel tired (water was probably 11ft or so there), and remember reaching out toward the person swimming in front of me to grab their foot, and when I couldn't I started to panic & went under. At that point, my entire memory fades--I may have blacked out. The next thing I knew, I was on the dock. One of the women at the party had jumped in and pulled me out. I am just saying that it doesn't take much to drown when you are a child. Once panic sets in it can all be over in moments. Just sharing.

 

[SMK]

When I was a child, I was abt 8, I had just gone through 2 weeks of swimming lessons & was so proud. Later that summer I was invited to a bday party at a large lake. Children of ages abt 7-13 were there. I was following a bunch of other kids when I jumped off a dock behind them. I probably only had to swim abt 10-12 feet to get to the ladder they were all swimming over to & then up on the dock again (the dock was a large perimeter type w/ several 'arms' extending out into the lake that had diving boards and ladders attached on them--it was one of these that I was swimming to). I started to feel tired (water was probably 11ft or so there), and remember reaching out toward the person swimming in front of me to grab their foot, and when I couldn't I started to panic & went under. At that point, my entire memory fades--I may have blacked out. The next thing I knew, I was on the dock. One of the women at the party had jumped in and pulled me out. I am just saying that it doesn't take much to drown when you are a child. Once panic sets in it can all be over in moments. Just sharing.

Thanks for sharing! Must have been awful, and glad you were not one more tragic statistic. With this child of the same age, it was freezing cold water rising and a pitch black night. Should have, could have, been avoided.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Thinking logically or thinking about what you or I might do or a rational person would do just does not apply once they pick up a drink

The alcoholic affects those that love them.....the fiancee and her son probably did not have the "recovery" and "tools" afforded by meeting with other family members who are "working the program".....many loved ones are just as sick *advertiser censored* the alcoholic themselves

The loved ones live in a state of hope and fear and denial. AFTER AWHILE THEY EVEN MAY BEGIN TO BELIEVE THE OFTEN RESENTFUL ACTIVE ALCOHOLIC WHO WILL BLAME THEM

They walk on eggshells and tippy toes.....afraid to anger the alcoholic, afraid that they may indeed be to "blame".....it is a sick cycle

 

[LogicalMinds]

He really didn't have any say in her leaving and taking her son - they weren't even married! As for buying wine without cups, she could very easily have had a paper cup in the car from buying a soft drink if they stopped for fast food anywhere...
JMO

So true....he had no authority...perhaps he wanted to marry quickly, adopt Azirel and "help" them

I feel very sorry for him...I am sure he was doing the best he could, it is very hard to let go and realize that you can't control whether a person drinks or not, and very hard when a child's safety is at stake

There should have been a safety net there....I don't see why the state child services let her have full custody of her son, there should have been some provision there, a way to have some sober people in her life have legal control and even physical control

the fact is that the mental health care and rehabs and treatment programs have had drastic budget cuts, most state social service agencies are happy to have the "natural" parent take back the child despite obvious problems

and there is not that much help offered to me in these situations