WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[KR2tonenow]

Another question I have is, why didn't the couple who gave her son pizza at 10:00 p.m. call the police?

If some random, intoxicated woman with a starving son knocked on my door at 10:00, I'm sure I would probably call the police.

MOO

Shantina was stated as saying at this house, that there was an accident. I am baffled at this point, why didn't these folks get a license number from the van and call police.

 

[KR2tonenow]

??

I'm talking about Shantina's step-father in Castle Rock.

My apologies...Call.

 

[Jani]

??

I'm talking about Shantina's step-father in Castle Rock. That is where she was allegedly headed that evening. I was wondering why he hasn't been interviewed since he was the person she was going to visit and he was in on the search at the beginning. He could shed some light on her state of mind before the trip, when and why she'd contacted him, if he felt anything was *off*, had he seen her on her prior trip to Castle Rock (grandfather said she'd gone down there a couple of weeks before her disappearance) or did he know why she'd made that earlier trip, was it supposed to only be her and Azriel that weekend, and so on.

Has any of her family or friends been interviewed (by the media) other than her boyfriend and Aziel's father? If they have, I apologize, as I missed it. If they haven't been interviewed, why? I find that a little odd.

 

[PaulR]

Shantina was stated as saying at this house, that there was an accident. I am baffled at this point, why didn't these folks get a license number from the van and call police.

We don't know if the family who let her use the phone overheard her state she was in an accident.

 

[RubyRed]

90Nine, IMHO I truly feel like this case is not receiving the vast media attn.that it WAS(when AZ was missing), and isnt continuing(after AZ being found) with that VAST media attn that we all here believe that it should still be getting. And I believe the reason for this is because of the many negative "issues" that have come to light about SS. I believe that partly for the reason of my speaking with clients of mine about this case and this generally is what I am hearing from them. They do not "feel" anything but anger and disgust for SS(which many of us do too) but for the most part they see this case as OVER. OVER because they think not a chance in H*** that she is anywhere but in that water and they believe thats where she deserves to be and could care less if her body ever surfaces. This Ive gotten from just speaking with others in my area. It seems to be the common feeling of most. As I said I know there are many of us here at this BB that feel very similarly BUT we want to know the WHYS, WHEN, WHERE&see it through to the end as we do for most cases. But i BELIEVE THE FEELING OF MOST ACROSS NATION IS SIMILAR AND AS WE KNOW THE MEDIA PRETTY MUCH FOLLOWS SUIT AS TO WHAT THEIR VIEWERS ARE INTERESTED. I personally believe this is wrong and wish the media would continue to press this case.Bcuz as we've all seen before seems as tho once the media quits pressing LE isnt far behind in it not being their priority, either. I want to see this through to some sort of conclusion and find out that that small chance that she got into someone else's vehicle(voluntary or involuntary)and left that beach that night.... As I said in MOO!

bbm

I'm one of them.

 

[PaulR]

Has any of her family or friends been interviewed (by the media) other than her boyfriend and Aziel's father? If they have, I apologize, as I missed it. If they haven't been interviewed, why? I find that a little odd.

Shantina's aunt, her ex (who is not Az's father)...

 

[Calliope]

Did you have someone in mind?

No. I just don't think that LE should dismiss out of hand that someone else may have been involved in this. Driving down that narrow, steep gravel path in near-total darkness (the one that a local police officer could barely locate in broad daylight) and then once there to drive to the edge of the water before attempting to get out makes no sense. Except for the fall earlier in the evening, no witness so far has said she appeared impaired. Perhaps she was, but she seemed to be navigating fairly well, albeit in the wrong direction. Yeah, yeah, I know... alcoholics don't make reasonable decisions. But IMO, this goes beyond that.

 

[Jani]

Another question I have is, why didn't the couple who gave her son pizza at 10:00 p.m. call the police?

If some random, intoxicated woman with a starving son knocked on my door at 10:00, I'm sure I would probably call the police.

MOO

IIRC, they did not think she was intoxicated. They said upset, looked like she had been crying. I don't believe they had cause to call police.

 

[koolmum]

Shantina was stated as saying at this house, that there was an accident. I am baffled at this point, why didn't these folks get a license number from the van and call police.

Maybe Shantina thought they were going to call her in and got paranoid. She took off in the opposite direction of what they told her and went to hide so LE couldn't find her. Maybe she knew that with another DUI, she would lose everything.

Maybe as she was sitting on that beach she was overcome with remorse and waded out and Azriel tried to save her. IDK ~ so bizarre.

MOO

 

[Calliope]

Shantina's aunt, her ex (who is not Az's father)...

Are you sure it was her aunt? I thought it was Azriel's father's sister in NY.

 

[eyes4crime]

She's in the water, there's a good chance they will never find her body.

Circumstances to me point out more of a tragic accident than her trying to commit suicide, being murdered, running off with someone, etc. I think that because of her relapse, her being disoriented the night she vanished, and Az's body washing up on another island, along with the police activity focused on the water (i.e. they think she is in the Sound too.)

I agree PaulR - I'm sure Law Enforcement (LE) have interviewed ALL parties involved - step-father, fiancee, step-sisters - all the people she might of had contact in planning this weekend. So far, there is NO hint that this is or will be a murder investigation. My heart goes out to all those who love and care about Shantina and little sweetheart Azriel. :blowkiss:

 

[PaulR]

Are you sure it was her aunt? I thought it was Azriel's father's sister in NY.

Sorry, you are correct. Azriel's aunt.

 

[Calliope]

It wasn't a lake, it is Puget Sound which is saltwater and connects directly to the Pacific Ocean. The van was found on Puget Sound, as was the body of the child.

If you drove between the points, it's over 50 miles and close to an hour and 20 minutes. 14 miles or so "as the crow flies."



They've stated that the child drowned accidentally... if he fell off a cliff, there'd be bruise marks caused by the force of him hitting the water, and I'm sure the coroner would have noticed that.

For him to have floated from the van through all those obstructions to where he eventually came ashore, I'd have to believe there was damage to his body.

 

[Jani]

No. I just don't think that LE should dismiss out of hand that someone else may have been involved in this. Driving down that narrow, steep gravel path in near-total darkness (the one that a local police officer could barely locate in broad daylight) and then once there to drive to the edge of the water before attempting to get out makes no sense. Except for the fall earlier in the evening, no witness so far has said she appeared impaired. Perhaps she was, but she seemed to be navigating fairly well, albeit in the wrong direction. Yeah, yeah, I know... alcoholics don't make reasonable decisions. But IMO, this goes beyond that.

I'm with you.

 

[powayparent]

But how does a mother and child just drown? Do either swim? Thanks for the input. That's where I am stuck.

45 degree water can literally take your breath away - some people die of cardiac arrest from the shock. It physically hurts and numbness is almost immediate. Fully clothed you'd feel like you were encased in lead. Knowing how to swim and knowing how to survive when unexpectedly placed in frigid water are different skill sets.

 

[PaulR]

For him to have floated from the van through all those obstructions to where he eventually came ashore, I'd have to believe there was damage to his body.

What obstructions...? He may have hit some in the water (while he was dead, I believe bruising would be different vs. happening if he was alive and fell off a cliff) but if his body rode the currents, it wouldn't have needed to hit any obstructions.

 

[jmarple]

I believe the reason they are no longer searching is it would be like finding a needle in a haystack. They searched the area where Az turned up, but where else should they look? Look at all the shoreline between the van and where Az was found, and more shoreline beyond. Her body could be anywhere.

There are hundreds of miles of shoreline, many of them are sparsely populated. I would hope that in a week or so LE would do a fly-over.

 

[LogicalMinds]

I am involved in child water/pool safety charity and program in Florida where drowning is the number 1 cause of death of kids 1-4...(so many pools, canals, lakes, not to mention ocean)

However...here we don't have freezing water..the water temp alone would cause even a swimmer to flounder, and they could easily go into hypothermia and drown

the reason for no national attention now it seems to me is that LE knows that they perished there and she will be found, somehow somewhere she will wash up, the body may be caught on something also (it does happen, not sure about that area)

"National attention" is something people here cry for all the time when even 10 years ago we probably would not have heard about Shantina and Azirel in Florida and people in Washington state would have read a small newspaper clip about a mother accused of killing her child in Central Florida (Casey and Caylee)

To me we need national attention when a child/person is missing/freshly taken etc...and when LE is facing a mystery ...but at this point?? I am out and around water a lot but I don't think she is going to turn up here in south florida or in Texas etc

LE apparently feels (as do I) that this is a tragedy..there is NO POI, no "suspect".....this is an accident and a tragedy. One can go from there to call for more help for alcoholics and their families, more treatment/rehab options, and def more money spent on family therapy, more attention by state agencies to kids whose parents have had legal troubles related to alcohol, more ongoing help for kids who have been involved with the state social services due

Figuring out all the little details here is hard too because as I have stated, once an alcoholic picks up the first drink all bets are off...they are not thinking or acting rationally and many try to fit their own (rational) ideas in there and it doesn't fit. There is no way to predict how or what a person might do when they are "under the lash of alcoholism" (dramatic words from their Big Book )


my point here >>> think globally but act locally....LE is at the point where they know this is local, they will have better luck getting media attention in the area, fishermen, people who walk on the beach , those that own beachfront property

Act locally : if you know someone in the grips of this horrible disease you can try to steer them to local AA meetings....they may not wish to go and you can't do anything about it. You can find where the local al anon and family meetings are and I bet their family will be more apt to attend.
If you have this problem in your family go to AA and/or Al Anon
There is help out there

For information, education, or help at any time>>>

Alcoholics Anonymous>> where it all started

www.aa.org

Al anon, alateen, family help

www.al-anon.alateen.org/

Children of alcoholic info
http://www.nacoa.org/

Adult Children
www.adultchildren.org/

Online al anon outreach
http://www.ola-is.org/

Narcotics anonymous
www.na.org/

Nar anon for families
www.nar-anon.org/

Online 12 step program
www.12stepforums.net/

the 12 steps has helped many people,
eating, shopping, gambling, other addictions too

JMO of course

 

[powayparent]

IIRC, they did not think she was intoxicated. They said upset, looked like she had been crying. I don't believe they had cause to call police.

Knocking on my door at 10pm, barefoot, disoriented, I'd call the police, but I don't fault the Williams family for not doing so.

 

[Calliope]

90Nine, IMHO I truly feel like this case is not receiving the vast media attn.that it WAS(when AZ was missing), and isnt continuing(after AZ being found) with that VAST media attn that we all here believe that it should still be getting. And I believe the reason for this is because of the many negative "issues" that have come to light about SS. I believe that partly for the reason of my speaking with clients of mine about this case and this generally is what I am hearing from them. They do not "feel" anything but anger and disgust for SS(which many of us do too) but for the most part they see this case as OVER. OVER because they think not a chance in H*** that she is anywhere but in that water and they believe thats where she deserves to be and could care less if her body ever surfaces. This Ive gotten from just speaking with others in my area. It seems to be the common feeling of most. As I said I know there are many of us here at this BB that feel very similarly BUT we want to know the WHYS, WHEN, WHERE&see it through to the end as we do for most cases. But i BELIEVE THE FEELING OF MOST ACROSS NATION IS SIMILAR AND AS WE KNOW THE MEDIA PRETTY MUCH FOLLOWS SUIT AS TO WHAT THEIR VIEWERS ARE INTERESTED. I personally believe this is wrong and wish the media would continue to press this case.Bcuz as we've all seen before seems as tho once the media quits pressing LE isnt far behind in it not being their priority, either. I want to see this through to some sort of conclusion and find out that that small chance that she got into someone else's vehicle(voluntary or involuntary)and left that beach that night.... As I said in MOO!

But don't you see? She was an alcoholic, therefore she was totally responsible and there couldn't be any other possible explanation, nor could anyone else have been involved in their disappearance.