WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[RubyRed]

I don't think it matters where you live, throwing trash on the ground is LITTER. It is not appropriate.

 

[yosande]

I don't think it matters where you live, throwing trash on the ground is LITTER. It is not appropriate.

I apologize for the east coast comment. It was not appropiate, and was not meant to offend really. just sick humor from the west. Many folks here tend to think there is a lot of trash on the sides of the roads in the east, and we've all heard about the garbage barges traveling up and down the eastern seaboard. On the west coast there are spotted owl fans who will stop tree logging to save a few, and obviously the old growth forests.
I guess I simply thought the mindset was different, that's all, no offense meant, well not really, but I wouldn't want to be called someone who didn't care about my State, so it was on the rude side.:blushing:

 

[LCoastMom]

It is against the law, and against the mindset of the most beautiful place on the planet, not to mention how it could harm the wildlife.

Be afraid, be very afraid, if someone sees you doing that.

ETA; btw, welcome to websleuths,

Nao I apologize I took your post the same and thought you said you threw your trash into or past the tide line, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post.

:nono: Give a HOOT don't P:earth:llute!! :nono: ​

 

[bobcat]

I have never ever in my whole life ever heard anyone admit to throwing trash in an inlet, ocean, river, or even land, so I must be misunderstanding what you are saying. Are you saying that you throw your garbage into the water when the tide comes in so it will go out and end up somewhere down the beach for somebody else to pick up?

If that is what you are saying then as an Oregonian, and PNWesterner, that is so not allowed here. It is against the law, and against the mindset of the most beautiful place on the planet, not to mention how it could harm the wildlife.

Be afraid, be very afraid, if someone sees you doing that. :furious:

You should re-read the post by nao. It did not say that he/she threw trash on the beach. Nao is saying he/she would PICK UP trash and throw it above the high tide line, so it wouldn't get washed back out when the tide came in.

Originally Posted by nao
Living near a beach, i will often thro trash up past the high tide line. Local are inclined to clean the beach, but i sometimes don't have a trash bag - as others don't and collections start. The stuff found could easily of come from random times.

 

[PaulR]

I don't have a good "criminal mind" but if I wanted to make it look like someone walked away I would leave their ID and take any bags (purse, suitcase, briefcase etc). MOO

One thing I would do is make sure that if I dropped my vehicle off, it would take a while to be found. The longer the delay, the less able searchers/police would be able to track, and the more distance you can put between yourself and where you abandoned the vehicle.

From the stories I've read of people who have vanished successfully (as in, found many years later), they tend to not take a lot with them besides cash and something that can easily be pawned to turn into cash.

 

[PaulR]

And you make a very good point when you say that if she had any history of brain health issues, RS would have likely (IMO) brought it up, since he did mention her history of alcoholism, and since he was forthcoming with the info about her recent relapse.

The fall in the parking lot is mysterious. Either she just simply stumbled & tripped, or something was going on that we're unaware of that caused her to lose her awareness & balance. This was the restaurant where they suddenly left without the corndog. That has never made sense to me. It makes me wonder if she was afraid of something or someone - but who? IDK.

And you're right - it's speculation at best.

You know, I know someone who had a friend die of a brain aneurysm. The only symptoms were mild headaches, something most of us would just shrug off. One day -

Also, if she was suffering from some sort of brain injury, she could have just forgotten about the corn dog, or gotten confused.

I'd love to pick the brain of a neurologist to look at what she did in Olympia and whether it could have been some kind of brain issue. If they find her body, they may be able to determine what happened. I certainly hope so.

 

[yosande]

You should re-read the post by nao. It did not say that he/she threw trash on the beach. Nao is saying he/she would PICK UP trash and throw it above the high tide line, so it wouldn't get washed back out when the tide came in.

Just to claify, The first two sentences of my post do claim that I am bewildered, and must be misunderstandimg, and then I ask for him/her to clarify.

The last part of his post, I clearly do not understand.

Nevertheless, the importance of not polluting in this area of the counrtry especially, is a big deal, a very big deal.

If I taught my children anything that they remember to this day, it is the importance of keeping the sides of the roads free of pollution, and to take pride in living in the cleanest State in the Country, and place, in the whole world.

My son, who walked to work when he was a young man, would pick up trash as he went. I was so proud of him!

Sometimes, he would get stopped by LE because his shift started at 3 am, and they would make him emply his pockets, which offended him btw, as he didn't think they had the right to force him to do that, we love our freedom here too. When he emptied his pockets, they would be full of straw wrappers, and other such things. They asked him why his pockets were full of trash and he would tell them that he thought it only right that if he saw trash on the sides of the road while on his way to work, that he must pick it up.
Yep, yep, a few LEO did get a chuckle out his love of beauty, and duty to keep it that way...

sigh

 

[PaulR]

Sometimes, he would get stopped by LE because his shift started at 3 am, and they would make him emply his pockets, which offended him btw, as he didn't think they had the right to force him to do that, we love our freedom here too. When he emptied his pockets, they would be full of straw wrappers, and other such things.

You raised a good kid

But he should be careful, that litter could have been drug paraphernalia, which would not have turned out well for your son

 

[yosande]

You raised a good kid

But he should be careful, that litter could have been drug paraphernalia, which would not have turned out well for your son

OT, as it turned out, he no longer needs to worry about such things, but I appreciate your words of advice just the same.

 

[yosande]

You should re-read the post by nao. It did not say that he/she threw trash on the beach. Nao is saying he/she would PICK UP trash and throw it above the high tide line, so it wouldn't get washed back out when the tide came in.

thank you for the clarity, I did misunderstand. I'm sorry nao, you were being a good citizen of the earth and a good neighbor, and I misundrstood. I'm so sorry.

 

[BeanE]

I think the source may have been RS posting about a GF who had migraines, and confusion as to whether he was referring to SS or to an ex-GF. I believe we figured out from the timeline that they weren't dating until after his post, so he wasn't talking about SS having migraines.

I would think that if she did have some kind of brain issue, RS would have been forthcoming with it, as it certainly would have been relevant. Whenever we hear of a missing person with either a mental illness or some other brain issue, the family and police generally publicize it.


That being said - if she did fall down in the parking lot of the restaurant, that could have either caused a brain injury or been a symptom of one. It would go towards explaining her bizarre behavior that evening, certainly. But it's speculation at best.

The discussions of whether or not Shantina may have had a brain event began before Calliope found the blurb about a gf with migraines.

They began, IIRC, based on the comment wherein Az was reported to have said his mom hit her head, the reports that Shantina had said she'd had an accident. From there, several people explored a possible connection to other symptoms Shantina was reported to have displayed, such as falling down outside the diner.

At first, people were discussing concussion and then discussions evolved to encompass such brain events as strokes, as people looked up symptoms and checked to see whether Shantina's symptoms matched to them.

Somewhere in there Calliope found the reference from RS to a gf with migraines.

I hope Shantina's body will be found so that we can find out the COD. Whereas it seems probable from the known facts and heuristic information of the case that all this happened as a result of her becoming intoxicated, I don't like the idea of her being maligned or thought badly of, when she may not have been negligent towards Az at all. And this is an alternative explanation to intoxication that seems to fit the facts and circumstances without need to stretch into wild speculation or fabrication to 'make it fit'.

 

[tlcya]

No new leads and no new news has everyone here still hashing and rehashing the same old is RS controlling or not debate. It is clear that everyone is pretty firmly entrenched in their own school of thought and yet the debate continues to rage. I for one have been in a very controlling relationship in the past and that is not the vibe I get in this case. MOO RS is just a guy, not a perp. But that is me. I only stopped in to say - this case is still on my mind, but barring any new developments to pick through, I will simply be lurking as I have no wish to jump back into this fray.

Final thought. RS has thus far not been shown to be a suspect, nor even a person of interest in this tragedy. For that matter, I have seen no evidence that LE have even determined whether they feel any sort of foul play was involved at all.

 

[LCoastMom]

Shantina didn't leave at 4:30. She called to say she was leaving, at 4:15.

He may have figured she could get stuck in traffic, or would have turned off if her son needed to stop at a rest room, or whatever.

No. He said repeatedly "She was getting ready to hit the road" (she asked if I needed anything - I asked her to bring my charger said "I'll see you on the road..." I thought she was on the road.... I'd catch up with her.. ) in the video on GMA.

If I call someone and say "I'm getting ready to hit the road is there anything you need?" chances are pretty good I'm not walking out the door during the call. I may need to fill my water bottle, get snacks & to make sure the kids have gone to the BR and have their jackets etc. etc. This is what it sounded like he was saying, to me. I would have thought from this call she would have been pulling out in the next 10 to 15 minutes - by his words "getting ready to hit the road" :cow:

More like bad reporting. This article says:

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/kitsap/c.../87673977.html

(quoting Mealy) Smiley called Simmons at around 6:45 p.m. from a pay phone, asking him to bring her cell phone, but Simmons was already on his way.

If Mealy said that verbatim, the Kitsap Sun reporter may have assumed he didn't answer. But that isn't what Mealy said. He said that Simmons was already on his way (and thus not able to get the cell), not that he didn't answer.

Investigators say that Smiley left Silverdale at 5 p.m. At 6:45 p.m., she called her boyfriend from a pay phone asking him to get her cell phone, but he didn’t answer, said Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris Mealy.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/m...rdale-mom-son/

This was a direct quote, I didn't make it up or change it. I am aware that it is wrong, thus my question or statement "Is there any wonder why so many false comments are thought to be truth..."

The remark "but he didn’t answer, said Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris Mealy" would make me think Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris Mealy said, he didn't answer when she called from a pay-phone." thus adding to the confusion of an already perplexing and confusing case... Bad reporting for sure. :cow:

Silverdale is far to the north of Olympia.

Right, about an hour.

''Mealy said Smiley had called her fiance Saturday night in northwest Olympia... " Maybe it should have read "from" northwest Olympia

But my question is if she had gotten off at the 1st or 2nd exit or had she pulled into the rest stop (because Az needed to use the RR and SS wanted to call and ask him to bring her cell phone before he left town..) where would she have been?

This is the first I've seen LE say the call was placed from "northwest" Olympia. In other words even tho SS told Robb she didn't know where she was - she was lost; LE may know where the call originated from.

Is Capital Blvd NW Olympia? Or central? Is Handy Pantry - North West? or NE?

''Detectives have determined that Smiley turned off Interstate 5''

http://olympia.komonews.com/content/search-now-focused-missing-mother

If she was on I-5... yes, it would have made an ideal place to stop. Washington rest stops are very good. But she was lost and not near the I-5. If she was on I-5, she would have been heading in the right direction anyway...

If she made it to Olympia, she must have started out in the right direction.

Robb said "She called me: "She said she was going to get off the HWY" - she was going to get something to eat for Az - she said she was lost - she told me she didn't know where she was - She said she was lost but she was going to get back on the road/HWY..." 0n FOX13 with Shep.

But she had to have been on a HWY just prior to the call - Right? What other options did she have? Whether she was lost or not she took the HWY to Olympia... Did she drive right past the Rest stop? From my experience rest stops are EZ on - EZ off are they the same in WA? 645 wasn't really dark yet was it?

What else would make Robb "check the 2 Rest Stops (or Safe Stops as the state calls them) between CR and Olympia" (or Silverdale), did he think this was where she called from? Cuz I can promise if I am lost, in the dark with just my (hypothetical 8 yr old) I'm not going to stop at a Rest Stop. (the ones in AZ are very nice too) but I'm going to look for a place more populated, fast food, supermarket, gas station - depending on what need was most important to take care of first..

Now traveling with my real live pit bull is another story.

If HP was her 1st stop (after the phone call) had she exited from the 101 (not the 5) - the HP is a straight shot off the 101 and back to the 101 - Blackwater exit to Common, but relatively speaking HP was not the easiest place to stop, nor the closest. Remote is the way I would describe it - compared to say Safeway.

They reporters may have just gotten the time from the published videotape, and not thought about the time change.

'According to Thurston County, the two went to the Handy Pantry market in West Olympia around 7:50 p.m. Around 9 p.m. they were seen at the Martin Way Diner about 3 miles away.'

The time change was at 2am Sunday (not 12 as I previously, accidentally posted -:bang: honest guys I'm sorry.) still hours away. We were discussing a couple pages back the possibility that the time stamp on the HP was wrong - but according to this:.. "Thurston County - around 7:50 p.m" - the time stamp was correct..

So where did the time confusion come from? Did Robb just assume she called from HP because (as far as we know) this was her first stop in Olympia?

RS hasn't said anything about her sounding/acting unusual at 6:45.

That wasn't what I was implying; in the Shep interview - Robb said; she said she was going to get off the HWY" she told me she pulled off to get food for Az (and the Williams said she pulled off for Az to use a RR) - she said she was lost - she told me she didn't know where she was - She said she was lost but she was going to get back on the road/HWY..." 0n FOX13 with Shep.

Since she left close to 5 - maybe she fed Az something before they left to hold him over until they got to CR, according to plan they should have been to CR by shortly after 7:00 - but at 6:45 due to traffic - they only got as far as Olympia. Az needs to use the RR - she wants to call Robb and ask him to bring her phone. She pulls off in Olympia.- This would be the reason Az wasn't going nuts at the HP or Safeway (wanting food) - but an hour later she stops to get him a hotdog.

 

[BeanE]

No new leads and no new news has everyone here still hashing and rehashing the same old is RS controlling or not debate. It is clear that everyone is pretty firmly entrenched in their own school of thought and yet the debate continues to rage. I for one have been in a very controlling relationship in the past and that is not the vibe I get in this case. MOO RS is just a guy, not a perp. But that is me. I only stopped in to say - this case is still on my mind, but barring any new developments to pick through, I will simply be lurking as I have no wish to jump back into this fray.

Final thought. RS has thus far not been shown to be a suspect, nor even a person of interest in this tragedy. For that matter, I have seen no evidence that LE have even determined whether they feel any sort of foul play was involved at all.

LE has stated repeatedly that there is no evidence of foul play, no indications of a crime. No means no, nada, none, zilch, zip, didn't happen.

 

[slowpoke]

Good morning!

I think I may have posted these thoughts surrounding the van key before--I know I was thinking it, but I forget if I actually posted it; sorry:

Personally, I don't view RS using the term "borrowed" in reference to the van as an indicator of him being controlling.

In my household, dh and I each have a car we consider *our* car, but but may want to use the other's car, on occasion. I can picture myself saying, "I'll need to borrow your car tomorrow!" even though, actually, we share ownership of both cars.

Also, I don't keep *his* key on my usual keyring because I don't want to carry around keys I rarely use in the day-to-day. We keep the extra keys in the house. Too bulky for me, especially the car keys nowadays.

And, this could be just one of my idiosyncrasies, but because I find it difficult to add/take off keys on those darn keyrings, I might just keep it separate since I will just be only using it temporarily.

So while it is mysterious to me why the van key was found on the dash of the van, I don't view it as particularly odd that it could have been kept separate from her other keys.

 

[BeanE]

No. He said repeatedly "She was getting ready to hit the road" (she asked if I needed anything - I asked her to bring my charger said "I'll see you on the road..." I thought she was on the road.... I'd catch up with her.. ) in the video on GMA.

If I call someone and say "I'm getting ready to hit the road is there anything you need?" chances are pretty good I'm not walking out the door during the call. I may need to fill my water bottle, get snacks & to make sure the kids have gone to the BR and have their jackets etc. etc. This is what it sounded like he was saying, to me. I would have thought from this call she would have been pulling out in the next 10 to 15 minutes - by his words "getting ready to hit the road" :cow:

IIRC LE confirmed that she left at 5. I'm happy to pull the link if you'd like. Poke me for it.

 

[BeanE]

This was a direct quote, I didn't make it up or change it. I am aware that it is wrong, thus my question or statement "Is there any wonder why so many false comments are thought to be truth..."

The remark "but he didn’t answer, said Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris Mealy" would make me think Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris Mealy said, he didn't answer when she called from a pay-phone." thus adding to the confusion of an already perplexing and confusing case... Bad reporting for sure. :cow:

No, the referenced statement is not a direct quote. They are a reporter saying his/her interpretation of what someone else said:

Smiley called Simmons at around 6:45 p.m. from a pay phone, asking him to bring her cell phone, but Simmons was already on his way.

Here's what a direct quote looks like. Note the quote marks:

Thurston County sheriff's detective Lt. Chris Mealy said there are no signs of foul play in or around the van, and that while the case is being called "suspicious," no suspects or persons of interest have been identified.

"We haven't established there has been a crime committed. We just don't know what happened to her," he said.

 

[twzzlrgirl]

So while it is mysterious to me why the van key was found on the dash of the van, I don't view it as particularly odd that it could have been kept separate from her other keys.

I always thought the keys were put there deliberately (by SS herself perhaps) so that the van could be moved by using the keys when it was found. I always put my keys on the dash when I want them visible to me or to someone else who will be getting in to drive the car (when I take it to a service station, for example). moo

 

[imamaze]

I have removed several posts discussing RS, the fiance to Shantina. He is not a POI, a suspect or said to be involved with any foul play.

If you find a member discussing this, do not respond to it, push the alert button to let us know. You all have been warned about this many times.

Thank you

Ima

 

[lilcatt]

The DWs house was as easy to find as anywhere else she ended up, it is a small single family home on a large piece of property - the DW's are not the registered owners. The Tax Assessors office has no sales information on the property available.

(According to them she told them she chose them because of the "Christian" sticker on their car's bumper)

Interesting to note, SS drove past a fire station on her way to Zangle Rd (street where van was found) 1/10th of a mile from the Mercantile. It is large, and has a raised, lit sign in front and a street level sign - on Boston Harbor Rd

How was Shantina able to see a sticker on the car's bumper in the dark?????
Why didn't she stop at the Fire Station if she was lost???
She is shown looking at a map and talking to the clerk, did they ever say what directions she was asking for??????? Just my thoughts and opinion