WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - # 3

[evelyn24]

Who said she had OCD? Is this conclusion deriving from one comment made on NG's show about her cleaning all of the time?

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Who said she had OCD? Is this conclusion deriving from one comment made on NG's show about her cleaning all of the time?

I believe it was in CPS docs and that they said that it didn't interfere with her ability to care for the kids.

 

[ingra1327]

1. JB was deemed sane by social workers... where do you see all this other info? Links? IMO

2. Yeah, because I don't think she killed Sky. I will be incredibly shocked if she did. IMO

3. His demeanor speaks volumes to me. <modsnip> he repeatedly stated that she knows where he is... yes, she does. I think so, too. IMO

I hope she did hide him somewhere and he is safe and warm with a full tummy.

 

[evelyn24]

I believe it was in CPS docs and that they said that it didn't interfere with her ability to care for the kids.

Interesting. thank you.

 

[OneLove]

Someone mentioned in an earlier thread about the horribly deranged underground "networks" that abduct, hold, and deny children the comfort, security, and sanctity of their own families. Most often, these criminals are, themselves, mentally ill and suffering from an over-identification with the delusions of a parent that would harm their child for life rather than COMPROMISE with the child's other parent. These are among the lowest most vindictive vermin on the face if the earth.

While they are often called "networks", they don't really require any kind of organizational acumen to successfully destroy a child's life. Any person living a somewhat socially isolated lifestyle can easily take on criminally abducted children with little scrutiny. Home schooling and the claim of foster parenting can hide children right out in the open, with no authorities to intervene. How many people in the general public request to see a child's "papers" when their neighbor, coworker, church congregants or even pastor announce they have taken on or even adopted a foster child. The degree of dedication these criminals have in holding these children captive is often matched by their self righteous fervor.

In plain language, they are vindictive lowlifes.

I hope Sky's mother didn't suck any of these treacherous subhumans into her delusions.

 

[RabidBadger]

She likely cleaned a lot because of fear of germs. That's also common in OCD patients.

Well yes.

Obsession = germs
Compulsion = cleaning (to alleviate anxiety about the obsession).

OCD, like any other mental illness, exists on a continuum. Most people with such mental illnesses are able to function normally with treatment. They pose no harm to anyone and as capable as anyone else. There are also varying degrees of severity up to the point of being completely incapable of activities of daily living.

However, a large problem with some forms of mental illness is the issue of non-compliance. Patients take their meds, feel better and then think they don't need their meds anymore. Then they relapse and lose the ability of introspection and fail to realize that they are ill.

Obviously this mother was severely ill, as noted in her court records by psychiatry. Her OCD existed as such:

Obsession = germs!!!!!!!!!!!
Compulsion = OMG must not touch anything and must clean constantly 24/7, no time for watching or feeding kids.....

Her compulsion was OVER COMPENSATORY and an inappropriate way of coping with her obsession, and THAT is the problem lies. When your compulsions take over your life and you are not able to care for yourself or your family as a result, or pose a threat to yourself or someone else.

Let's take this one step further, as an example of severe over-compensation:

Obsession = ex-husband, he is evil, yada yada
Compulsion = must rid yourself of anything that reminds you of him or is a product of him (aka child)

or

Obsession = germs!!!!!! They pose a deadly hazard to us all (think apocalypse)
Compulsion = Sick child is germ factory, his germs could kill us all!!! Only one thing to do here....

So once again, it is the degree of obsession, but also the form and severity of the compulsion which determines your ability to function normally. Most people with controlled OCD live normal healthy lives. Some do not. The question is, is she one of those who do not?

 

[imamaze]

It's been there since Sunday. I'll be interested in what you find!!

I wish there was more sleuthing here on dad... that is allowed, right?

The father can not be sleuthed beyond what is being reported in the media. Thanks!

Ima

 

[RabidBadger]

Who said she had OCD? Is this conclusion deriving from one comment made on NG's show about her cleaning all of the time?

No it is in a psychiatric report written and signed by psychiatrist which is in the public record in the court documents.

 

[OneLove]

OCD rituals are done due to fear. If she was afraid she may harm her child, she could have cleaned religiously to get rid of her thoughts. I used to hide knives because seeing them would trigger a thought. Out of sight, out of mind. It was silly but it helped me get rid of the thoughts that eventually disappeared for good.

Possibly, cleaning was her way to get rid of them OR you're right, a fear of germs. But I'm not feeling like she has OCD here. No one with OCD cleans to the point where they refuse to feed their children.

I'm leaning towards a psychotic break or another mental illness. That is, if what her husband said was true of course. There are always three sides to the story, his, hers and the truth.

Thank you SO much for posting about your own experiences. There is nothing that promotes understanding and empathy better than hearing firsthand what it is like.

If you don't mind my asking, under extreme stress, do you think you might experience these thoughts again until the stress subsides, or are they forever and ever gone?

Thanks again for sharing and helping with our understanding.

 

[ClassyT]

It just happened out of nowhere. Typically late onset OCD is triggered by some life even. So now I am curious as to what that event was. In my opinion her OCD is not related to her sons disappearance. I am just nosy.

 

[asiapyn]

One final tidbit for the day
I'm not one to swallow the BS that comes out of some of these cases when a child goes missing, and a parent seems to be involved. I detest people who harm children, seriously detest them. And I normally want a WHOLE lotta evidence to show me that a parent in question DIDN'T do something to the children involved.
But in this case, I'm truly on the fence - because I just don't know if this woman harmed Sky or if she has hidden him out of real or imagined fear.
That being said - I've read some posts here in which people seem to not even find it possible that this woman may have been in an abusive situation.
I'm in no way saying she was or she wasn't. But it concerns me that there seem to be people who are disregarding that as even a slight possibility.
There IS a possiblity that she was harmed by her ex-husband. There IS a possiblity that he is manipulative and dangerous.
And there IS a possiblity that she truly felt the need to hide her son to keep him away from the father.
There are "networks" of people who are saving lives every day, all over the world by assisting victims and their children who are trying to escape domestic violence. There are many, many cases of really truly dangerous cases in which a woman HAS to turn to these people to save her life and the life of her children.
Not all of these women are lying, not all of them are simply making up stories to take revenge on the father of their children.
I am so thankful, so extremely thankful, that there are kind people who risk their lives to help in these situations.
Again - I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE HERE - but I do want to point out the fact that anything is possible. And right now, I don't feel like there has been enough information released to say that she has lied about anything pertaining to her ex husband.
Good night Sleuths :twocents:

 

[Bia.]

Thank you SO much for posting about your own experiences. There is nothing that promotes understanding and empathy better than hearing firsthand what it is like.

If you don't mind my asking, under extreme stress, do you think you might experience these thoughts again until the stress subsides, or are they forever and ever gone?

Thanks again for sharing and helping with our understanding.

Oh, anytime!

They could honestly come back at anytime. I remember when I was a little girl I used to get thoughts of stabbing my parents (I must sound like a looney tune here lol) and they scared me so bad! I never told anyone of course. As I got older I realized it's been happening forever, randomly. My father had OCD as well, with intrusive thoughts. I'm not sure if it's heredity or what but his was so bad that he decided to take meds. I didn't feel the need as I controlled them rather well after time.

Honestly, I am pregnant with #2 right now and I fear it all coming back after I give birth. It really kicked in a few months after I had my daughter. But, my doctor assured me that if it did come back, I could work through it just like I did before. And of course, stress to myself I would never act on those thoughts. It also helped to read and see first hand that so many people deal with it on a daily basis. It really makes you feel less "crazy".

I guess I got a tad bit offended when I saw posts saying she acted out her thoughts because the OCD finally got to her. OCD stems from severe anxiety most of the time and most people should know anxiety doesn't lead to murder.

I used to have thoughts 16 hours out of a day and I would lock myself up in a padded room and light myself on fire before I ever hurt a fly. Literally, I'm too afraid to kill bugs.

 

[gitana1]

Wow. So, how did she do it while with LE? Either she had her iphone on her at that point, or someone did it for her.

They said her friend stated her FB changed since Sky disappeared. But perhaps they are counting that from when he was last seen by someone other than mom or the four year old sister. ETA: The friend could have just looked at her page since she found out about Sky and saw a change, but we don't know the last time she checked. Let me see if I can find out.

It's been repeated in past threads that the mother did not, apparently, update her FB photos for at least a year or so. The last pics posted are of when M is about 2. Her Flikr has 2,000 photos, of both children. M looks like she loves the camera. I have more pictures of my 3 year old than my 4 year old (both girls), because of this.

To me, it looks like Mommy loves taking photos of M, not so much that M loves the camera and forces her way in shots. In so many of the shots featuring both kids, M is clearly meant to be the focal point, whether she is just standing there being told to say "cheese" or look at the photographer. Sky is off to the side or in the background. IMO.

I think I'm having a really hard time believing anyone is really THIS dumb. Or that heartless. Good grief.



That might make sense if her profile picture wasn't of her with Sky...

That's what I'm thinking. She hadn't uploaded photos to her albums or her wall since before Sky was born. I'm betting she changed her profile to the one of her and Sky.

I've always had OCD, since I was a child and my main obsession was intrusive thoughts. I would get the worst thoughts of harming my daughter and it would put me into such a panic that I wouldn't go near her for days. It's VERY common in OCD; just look it up, it's called "Pure O". Brooke Shields wrote a book about it after she gave birth. I eventually got over it but it took a lot out of me.

Now, she obviously had more than just the intrusive thoughts as it's claimed she cleaned like a maniac. However, people with true OCD, do NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT, ever, ever, ever act out on their intrusive thoughts. Their thoughts are fears and they obsess over their fears because they are afraid. If you read up on the condition there has never been a case where a person with OCD actually harmed someone.

IF she killed her child, she had a psychotic break of some sort. She was reaching out to her husband telling him about her thoughts/dreams because she was afraid. But again, a true person with OCD will never act out on it. They will stray far, far away to get away from that thought.

Thank you. Good to know.

Seriously? They are both messed up. Both parents. None of the events leading up to this were okay for the kids. If the father's family thought she was a danger to her kids and honestly said they things he alleged he could have filed a temporary order to protect the kids. Divorce is a funny thing. I absolutely think she did something with the boy but it doesn't take away from what they were both doing to each other prior.

It appears that he did file a temporary order to protect the kids. In fact, it appears that as a result, he had custody of the kids for seven months. Then the litigation veered back the other way. But there are tons of declarations and other things filed by both parties. Clearly, the father litigated hard.

1. JB was deemed sane by social workers... where do you see all this other info? Links? IMO

2. Yeah, because I don't think she killed Sky. I will be incredibly shocked if she did. IMO

3. His demeanor speaks volumes to me. <modsnip> he repeatedly stated that she knows where he is... yes, she does. I think so, too. IMO

She was not deemed sane. In fact, the report stated that mom was found to have "SEVERE" OCD, but that in the opinion of the evaluator, it did not interfere with her ability to adequately parent the kids.

Who said she had OCD? Is this conclusion deriving from one comment made on NG's show about her cleaning all of the time?

No, it was in the court records and was apparently a diagnosis confirmed by child custody evaluators and medical records, based on what I can gather. But based on what Bia said, I;m thinking something else might have been happening. She was hospitalized three times and one at least was involuntary.

 

[belimom]

Seriously? They are both messed up. Both parents. None of the events leading up to this were okay for the kids. If the father's family thought she was a danger to her kids and honestly said they things he alleged he could have filed a temporary order to protect the kids. Divorce is a funny thing. I absolutely think she did something with the boy but it doesn't take away from what they were both doing to each other prior.

bbm

I thought he had so I looked back and found this link (I had posted it on the old thread as well):

Both have filed for protective orders against each other, and each has had custody of the two children at times.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016709944_missing08m.html

 

[ClassyT]

I just found her Flickr acct. I am looking at a set of photos from March. A hotel room she and the kids stayed in. Its all disorganized. She had a handle on it then. Equal amount of kids in photos.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Someone mentioned in an earlier thread about the horribly deranged underground "networks" that abduct, hold, and deny children the comfort, security, and sanctity of their own families. Most often, these criminals are, themselves, mentally ill and suffering from an over-identification with the delusions of a parent that would harm their child for life rather than COMPROMISE with the child's other parent. These are among the lowest most vindictive vermin on the face if the earth.

While they are often called "networks", they don't really require any kind of organizational acumen to successfully destroy a child's life. Any person living a somewhat socially isolated lifestyle can easily take on criminally abducted children with little scrutiny. Home schooling and the claim of foster parenting can hide children right out in the open, with no authorities to intervene. How many people in the general public request to see a child's "papers" when their neighbor, coworker, church congregants or even pastor announce they have taken on or even adopted a foster child. The degree of dedication these criminals have in holding these children captive is often matched by their self righteous fervor.

In plain language, they are vindictive lowlifes.

I hope Sky's mother didn't suck any of these treacherous subhumans into her delusions.

Who are these people, and where do they exist? In this post 9/11 world, I really think such things have gone the way of the dinosaur.

It's really easy to label two divorcing parents as vindictive. That's why we have the mess we have today in family court. We've heard it so much, we believe, that people who were once completely sane automatically behave like monsters when they divorce.

In fact, the great majority of divorces settle out of court. They might not be totally amicable, but they don't lead to all out war.

Who's left? The families dealing with domestic violence, mental illness, substance abuse, and yes, to be sure, some people who are just plain difficult and vindictive. But when we just dismiss them all as angry exes, we as a society miss the opportunity to prevent so much hurt and harm to children. We miss the chance to hold the violent parent, the ill parent, the addicted parent, accountable for their actions and to steer them to services that can change their lives for the better AND protect their children in the process.

We have to find Sky. When we do, our next question has to be what, if anything, could have prevented this situation?

 

[gitana1]

I looked through mom's posts and the last time it reveals that she changed her profile picture was in June. Of course she could have erased note of any change.

 

[ClassyT]

bbm

I thought he had so I looked back and found this link (I had posted it on the old thread as well):

Neither of their claims stuck though right? I worked family law and its so incredibly common for people to start making accusations to gain the upperhand in custody cases. Thats why I am sort of "meh" on the issue. To me it just shows they are equally jerks. Only hurts the kids.

 

[gitana1]

Who are these people, and where do they exist? In this post 9/11 world, I really think such things have gone the way of the dinosaur.

It's really easy to label two divorcing parents as vindictive. That's why we have the mess we have today in family court. We've heard it so much, we believe, that people who were once completely sane automatically behave like monsters when they divorce.

In fact, the great majority of divorces settle out of court. They might not be totally amicable, but they don't lead to all out war.

Who's left? The families dealing with domestic violence, mental illness, substance abuse, and yes, to be sure, some people who are just plain difficult and vindictive. But when we just dismiss them all as angry exes, we as a society miss the opportunity to prevent so much hurt and harm to children. We miss the chance to hold the violent parent, the ill parent, the addicted parent, accountable for their actions and to steer them to services that can change their lives for the better AND protect their children in the process.

We have to find Sky. When we do, our next question has to be what, if anything, could have prevented this situation?

You are absolutely right. When they hire me it's usually because someone has a major problem. Sometimes both.

 

[Bia.]

No, it was in the court records and was apparently a diagnosis confirmed by child custody evaluators and medical records, based on what I can gather. But based on what Bia said, I;m thinking something else might have been happening. She was hospitalized three times and one at least was involuntary.

This is the part that makes me think there's more than just OCD. I was convinced when I told my Doctor about my intrusive thoughts that I would be committed or something. My Doctor actually said it was more common than I thought and there are millions of people who have these thoughts. Some just shrug them off and others (with OCD or anxiety) obsess over them. Something had to of happened for her to be committed involuntarily.

Have you ever just been driving and thought to yourself "what if I drove off this bridge?" or something along those lines? That's an intrusive thought. We all get them but some can control it while others can't.