Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

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from the same link by Brooke Adams:

"But the Texas raid removed children whose parents said they were adults when they entered plural marriages, as well as monogamous parents who consider plural marriage a religious tenet.
Michael Quinn, a historian and Mormon scholar, said social hysteria and Protestant revulsion against polygamy provide the backdrop for the Texas raid.
“It is very clear this attack is on plural marriage as a way of living,” Quinn said. The children's removal was a “blanket punishment of an entire group for alleged crimes of an individual. That is clearly something that could be appealed up the court system.”

I love Brooke Adams. She is thoughtful and insightful. I have read her blog every day since this case began.
 
Were they this dodgey in the court proceedings??? Stepford, stepford, stepford.

That's exactly how I described Merilyn Jeffs' testimony --- DODGEY! She's just stuffed full of contradictions. At another link she claimed she "witnessed" any marriages since they moved to Eldorado. Under cross, her sisters did get married at the compound, she remembers congratulating them.

Also, she conveniently forgot how hold her sister is ... she "thinks" she's 18. :rolleyes:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/18/dispatch-from-the-flds-hearing-a-mothers-story/#more-717
 
Something that has been bothering me (there is SO much about this case that has) is when the 1 woman giving the tour of the compound was showing her girls room and she held up some little socks that she said had been lovingly mended by her grandmother. Did you notice how many areas had been mended and there were all these rough bunched up spots. Can you imagine how uncomfortable wearing those socks would be on a little kids feet? Poor little kids have probably never known the feeling of being able to run barefoot. It's a small thing I know compared to other things such as waterboarding etc but I can't get the picture of those horrible socks out of my mind, this woman thought showing them would show how the kids are so well cared for, well it had the opposite reaction for me!

VB

I've watched to tour of Marilyn's home several times. She's been identified by one of the women who escaped the cult, as Marilyn Jeffs. Marilyn's home is very institutionalized and doesn't look anything like a real home.

In the tour I looked carefully for any sign of a child living in that home, and there were no toys, a doll or teddy bear on a child's bed, nothing! I doubt those children have anything other than their clothing that belongs to them.

I also noted that the women don't have any of the personal items one would expect to find in a home. There were no handmade quilts or afghans, or any of the needlework one would expect to find in a home where the women sew. They live a very austere life.

I really hope the children remain in the state's custody and are placed in good foster homes.
 
I sincerely feel like FlowerChild.......

These women are no more then human baby machines. I'm not so certain many of them were not severely drugged to the hilt, in order to get them to submit. The glassy, cold look in there eyes, speaks louder then any words they udder. They used the fear factor to keep everyone in line. I'm sure there was holding cells / or places they were sent if the women got out of line in any way.

I think any & all of these women would leave the children behind & never look back. They are like rabbits & can multiply quickly.

I also think that the old men who could & would be charged as being the father of the young girls children who would go to jail. Will have a young guy give the DNA & it will be proven he is 'not the father'. I think the old men have probably already cleared out, knowing this was headed for DNA & they would be jailed. They hope the DNA of there sons would be close enough to name the son as the Dad. Hope this makes sense. Then the state won't be able to charge anyone......

I'm sure the FLDS will have many, many men to comply with the DNA testing to make it look like they're being honest & co-operative. When in reality they will not be the fathers of the kids.

I think the DNA testing will be a nightmare for those geneticists. With so much inbreeding between the Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow, Johnson, and Steed families over a number of generations, all the DNA will probably show a family relationship. Getting it narrowed down to the specific mother and father will be a challenge.
 
I've watched to tour of Marilyn's home several times. She's been identified by one of the women who escaped the cult, as Marilyn Jeffs. Marilyn's home is very institutionalized and doesn't look anything like a real home.

In the tour I looked carefully for any sign of a child living in that home, and there were no toys, a doll or teddy bear on a child's bed, nothing! I doubt those children have anything other than their clothing that belongs to them.

I also noted that the women don't have any of the personal items one would expect to find in a home. There were no handmade quilts or afghans, or any of the needlework one would expect to find in a home where the women sew. They live a very austere life.

I really hope the children remain in the state's custody and are placed in good foster homes.

Do you have a link to Marilyn's tour? i'd love to see what you've ll been talking about.
 
from the same link by Brooke Adams:

"But the Texas raid removed children whose parents said they were adults when they entered plural marriages, as well as monogamous parents who consider plural marriage a religious tenet.
Michael Quinn, a historian and Mormon scholar, said social hysteria and Protestant revulsion against polygamy provide the backdrop for the Texas raid.
“It is very clear this attack is on plural marriage as a way of living,” Quinn said. The children's removal was a “blanket punishment of an entire group for alleged crimes of an individual. That is clearly something that could be appealed up the court system.”

I love Brooke Adams. She is thoughtful and insightful. I have read her blog every day since this case began.
This isn't a case against polygamy; it is about the sexual and physical abuse of many children.
 
Well it would be great if it were that simple. Unfortunately it is all intertwined in some peoples minds.
 
from the same link by Brooke Adams:

"But the Texas raid removed children whose parents said they were adults when they entered plural marriages, as well as monogamous parents who consider plural marriage a religious tenet.
Michael Quinn, a historian and Mormon scholar, said social hysteria and Protestant revulsion against polygamy provide the backdrop for the Texas raid.
“It is very clear this attack is on plural marriage as a way of living,” Quinn said. The children's removal was a “blanket punishment of an entire group for alleged crimes of an individual. That is clearly something that could be appealed up the court system.”

I love Brooke Adams. She is thoughtful and insightful. I have read her blog every day since this case began.

BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS

Also from the same link:
On Friday, 51st District Judge Barbara Walther said authorities provided sufficient proof that children at the sect's ranch in Eldorado are in danger, accepting the state's argument that the sect encourages the sexual abuse of underage girls.
Angie Voss, who led the state's child abuse investigation, said religion was not at issue but still spoke of the sect's beliefs in her testimony.
"I believe it is not safe for any child to return to the ranch because the adults I have spoken with have told me they don't believe they are doing anything wrong and the belief in children having children is part of their culture," she said.

Glow, I don't understand how you can appear to constantly condone what was going on in this compound. Either earlier in this thread or another, you went to great effort distinguish between rape & statutory rape & still seemed to condone what is happening to these children. You then seem to defend your position by quoting laws that are outdated and claiming civil rights have been violated.

This is not about civil rights violations. This is not about freedom of religion. This is about children being groomed to accept pedophiles raping them in the name of a spiritual marriage. Even if they are of legal age for consent when the marriage happens, they are still not participating in choosing their own husbands. They are being forced to submit to some old man that already has a legal wife, several spiritual ones & who knows how many kids. This is about enslaving children for the sickness of the adults and then expecting those who have been enslaved to participate in the sickness as adults. The cylce must end.

Let's get this clear. There is no basis for believing that these girls have consented to anything in the name of attraction or love -- no matter what their age. They have only consented to submitting so some a$$hole who's already in jail for participating in child rape won't condemn them to hell because he tell's them he is "The Prophet".

These folks live in a communal setting. They share responsibilities in everything. It seems to me that they have one big home, not seperate households. And even if it is seperate households, each of them likely has a current underage teen who is already a mother or is pregnant. According to laws of our current society, they are all guilty of child abuse if anyone of the adults knew of any form of child abuse and did not report it. So, how exactly does civil rights play here? I don't get it. For almost 2 weeks I've tried to get how you can defend this & I don't get it
 
:waitasec: That's taking the question out of context.

No it isnt. My assertion was that even as laws are continuously changing, so does what society considers "too young" to have children.

Her assertion was it was "ok" back then because the average life span was shorter.

Her statement has validity because we could assume that to a degree on a shortened life curve people might step up the pace at which they do things.

When I asked if that same set of conditions were in play now would that still be ok was a perfectly logical question to ask.

If my question bothered anyone, (not saying that it did) then to the extent that they felt "bothered"? Is probably a good indicator of how biased our thinking can get when we refuse to walk all the way around an issue and look at it from every angle.

The underage aspect of this needs to change because it doesn't follow the law, not because it is immoral on a universal level.

But what about the polygamous aspect of this? That is against the law also. The current law that is. Is it immoral on a universal scale or not?

How about the 2 year old in that group of children who has a mom over 18 and a dad who only has one wife because he is young and is just getting started? He hasn't broken a law, his wife hasn't broken a law, the toddler certainly hasn't either. And where is that little child right now? He/she is being held by the state, the father is not allowed contact, and the mother is going to be sent away early this week. All of this and they did nothing wrong.
 
Well it would be great if it were that simple. Unfortunately it is all intertwined in some peoples minds.
It pretty much is that simple. Children in that cult are abused on a regular basis from infancy. They suffer emotional and physical abuse until they reach puberty, when they also suffer sexual abuse. Personally, I don't give a rat's behind how many women some old guy marries, spiritually or otherwise. What I do care about are the helpless children. Children should not be abused. It is that simple.
 
Do you have a link to Marilyn's tour? i'd love to see what you've ll been talking about.

Floh.............I can't find the complete video of Marilyn's home, but this video link gives a few highlights................

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/04/16/lkl.flds.polygamy.cnn?iref=videosearch

And if you haven't seen this video yet, it's a must see. This is Carolyn Jessop, former member of the FLDS, describing the abuse, including the water-boarding of infants, used by her former husband, Merrill Jessop, who is in charge of the YFZ ranch in Texas.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/18/ng.polygamy.crime.cnn?iref=videosearch
 
It pretty much is that simple. Children in that cult are abused on a regular basis from infancy. They suffer emotional and physical abuse until they reach puberty, when they also suffer sexual abuse. Personally, I don't give a rat's behind how many women some old guy marries, spiritually or otherwise. What I do care about are the helpless children. Children should not be abused. It is that simple.

:clap::clap::clap:
 
Cheers Leila! :)

Sadly, this is what i constantly find with any link given to a CNN video. it's never what people think it is. your link takes me here:

Bomb explodes in northern Spain 0:45
A bomb exploded outside the ruling Socialist Party offices early Sunday after ETA separatists phoned in a warning.
• World News - International Headlines, Stories and Video from CNN.com


i have no idea just why i can not get to the videos others see. :(
 
I think the DNA testing will be a nightmare for those geneticists. With so much inbreeding between the Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow, Johnson, and Steed families over a number of generations, all the DNA will probably show a family relationship. Getting it narrowed down to the specific mother and father will be a challenge.

I hope I am wrong Leila but I can't see the "REAL" fathers stepping forward & offering willingly to give a DNA test. I bet the REAL fathers are long gone, & in hiding.

Will be the worst case of inbreeding the world has ever seen. The elder men are either gone now or will be jailed real soon. I'm sure hiding out is a far safer game plan then jail. Makes a person ill at the thoughts of it.
 
Do you have a link to Marilyn's tour? i'd love to see what you've ll been talking about.

As a joke I almost gave you the link to the unibrow superbowl commercial. *Bad Sue..Bad bad Sue...*
 
As a joke I almost gave you the link to the unibrow superbowl commercial. *Bad Sue..Bad bad Sue...*

If it were a link to a CNN video i wouldn't even get to see unibrow. :(
 
Dittos to you and FlowerChild. Cheko, I also wonder if the women are drugged. Not a single one talks like a normal person.


Maybe my opinion is pretty far fetched Pepper but its as though they were given enough acid to warp them / or they take a daily dose of something because "NOBODY" talks like that! NOBODY!!!!
 
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