Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

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PLEASE! I need a link to the video tour of a house that the FLDS woman gave reporters.
 
southcitymom said:
I think they lie for many reasons. They feel attacked and persecuted. They do not know what is going on and what is going to happen to them and their children. The life they have known and made for years (and no matter how criminal we might consider that life, it is still a comfort and security to them) has ben ripped apart. They do not know if telling the turth will help them or hurt them. And on and on.

I can understand their terror and confusion. I can understand the lies. They do not trust the people who have taken them. Distrust does not engender open honest communication.

In the distant future the lives of these children and women may be better because of this dismantling of their way of life, but right now they can't see that and I wouldn't really expect them to.
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If someone from CPS came to your home and investigated you - and TOOK your children, would you do everything to get them back...or lie? Would you encourage your children to lie? Would you get legal help and then TELL THE TRUTH? Get DNA testing ASAP if necessary? Would your children be able to identify you as their MOTHER? Would you give your correct information to the the authorities...or lie about your name, age, birthdate and if the children in your arms were yours or not?

I am sorry - the men in this Church use computers, have web sites and even many of the women had cell phones and were in constant touch with the men while in custody with the children. The men are out working in the "world" every day. I do NOT buy that these people are all so ignorant as to not UNDERSTAND the concept of TRUTH and giving basic factual information to authorities. And it's funny how they are all suddenly so frightened but have no problem going on TV to tell their side of the story when it appears that course of action HELPS THEM. And they have LAWYERS - it's not like they do not have PAID legal representation to ADVISE THEM out of their fright and help them navigate the courts. This church is worth an estimated 50 MILLION $$$ which they earn by working out HERE with us infidels - but they have no concept of laws, rules, codes and business practices???

GMAB - the whole helpless, paralyzed, frightened, don't understand spiel they have worked so hard (in the infidel based MEDIA they scorn) to sell to us is wearing very very thin. I think they understand TOTALLY what is going on and I think they certainly understand truth from lies. Lies are PUNISHED severely in their world (lies are definintely NOT "being sweet") - therefore I must assume they can grasp the concept that lies also are bad in THIS very important circumstance. And the MEN are still running everything and I KNOW they are NOT all dumb, frightened or ignorant of the real world and basic law. .. they take PayPal!

It's been DAYS - WEEKS and they have had lawyers since day TWO. Somewhere in that time I would ASSUME that their lawyers have patiently explained the concept of truth and facts and what can and did happen - and WHY. We do not accept IGNORANCE as a defense in OTHER crimes and abuse cases - why should we allow it to even be brought up in this one. These are ADULTS and not mentally deficient in any way - maybe many of the women are not highly sophisticated or educated but they are capable of understanding. There is a huge difference between frightened and willfully evasive - and between recalcitrance and shyness - and outright deception and FRAUD. Funny how these poor ladies can negotiate the rather complicated process of getting AID from the state and Govt for their children and themselves but then turn around and go mute when asked by CPS and the courts to prove which children are theirs and their ages when their legal custody of those same children is questioned.

Scared my right butt cheek - they are one step above con artists and definitely very well acquainted with defrauding the Govt they are suddenly so fearful of and do not "understand" when it benefits THEM.

My Opinion
 
FlowerChild said:
If someone from CPS came to your home and investigated you - and TOOK your children, would you do everything to get them back...or lie? Would you encourage your children to lie? Would you get legal help and then TELL THE TRUTH? Get DNA testing ASAP if necessary? Would your children be able to identify you as their MOTHER? Would you give your correct information to the the authorities...or lie about your name, age, birthdate and if the children in your arms were yours or not? ......
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It's just not a comparable analogy for me. If CPS came to my house and took my children, they would be dealing with someone who lives fairly fully (moreso than these women and children) in the modern world and they would be dealing with a simple family structure - one husband, one wife, 2 kids. This is not the case for the FLDS.

Additionally, if my family were stormed on and accosted in the manner these folks were, I'd be out of my friggin' mind and I can't really tell you how I would respond. I don't know if it would be rational - it may well be criminal - it's hard for me to even envision. I can tell you that if I ever got wind that CPS was heading to my home to take my children, I'd be out of this country with them so fast your head would spin. But that's neither here nor there.

We can think they're crazy as loons and criminal for living the way they were living. We can want to protect the children and get them out of an abusive environment. But, even with those things in mind, it should not be hard to grasp the fact that - whether we like them or not - these woman and children are scared and they don't really know what to do and they don't trust the people who are trying to "help" them.

And you know what? - I'll bet if any of us found ourselves in their situation, we would feel the same way.

I think it benefits us to keep this in mind as this story unfolds.
 
(bolding is mine)

southcitymom said:
Yes, I understand that the Courts in this case will probably appoint a guardian ad litem for each child. In most states, the Court will also take a child's desires into account when the child is in the 12-14 range. In terms of considering viewpoints, most Courts historically look first to the guardian ad litem, second to the parent and finally to the child..
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Just a bit of clarification, ad litems have already been appointed to every child that was under the guardianship of the state of TX last week. The ones discovered today will be appointed ad litems within a few days. Attorneys from all across the state of TX have stepped up to the plate and are doing this on a pro bono basis.

As far as considering viewpoints, here in TX, the courts will historically look to the guardian ad litem, and then equally to the parent and CPS. A child has a legal right to speak at age 12 in TX, and can be heard at a younger age if deemed in the best interest of the child. Their preferences are certainly entered into the equation, based on the evidence presented by all other parties and witnesses (medical, psychological, etc).
 
barb0301 said:
(bolding is mine)



Just a bit of clarification, ad litems have already been appointed to every child that was under the guardianship of the state of TX last week. The ones discovered today will be appointed ad litems within a few days. Attorneys from all across the state of TX have stepped up to the plate and are doing this on a pro bono basis.

As far as considering viewpoints, here in TX, the courts will historically look to the guardian ad litem, and then equally to the parent and CPS. A child has a legal right to speak at age 12 in TX, and can be heard at a younger age if deemed in the best interest of the child. Their preferences are certainly entered into the equation, based on the evidence presented by all other parties and witnesses (medical, psychological, etc).
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Thank you, barb. That's great to know about the guardians already being appointed and I appreciate the clarification about the TX courts. The little I know is from exposure here in GA.
 
southcitymom said:
It's just not a comparable analogy for me. If CPS came to my house and took my children, they would be dealing with someone who lives fairly fully (moreso than these women and children) in the modern world and they would be dealing with a simple family structure - one husband, one wife, 2 kids. This is not the case for the FLDS.

Additionally, if my family were stormed on and accosted in the manner these folks were, I'd be out of my friggin' mind and I can't really tell you how I would respond. I don't know if it would be rational - it may well be criminal - it's hard for me to even envision. I can tell you that if I ever got wind that CPS was heading to my home to take my children, I'd be out of this country with them so fast your head would spin. But that's neither here nor there.

We can think they're crazy as loons and criminal for living the way they were living. We can want to protect the children and get them out of an abusive environment. But, even with those things in mind, it should not be hard to grasp the fact that - whether we like them or not - these woman and children are scared and they don't really know what to do and they don't trust the people who are trying to "help" them.

And you know what? - I'll bet if any of us found ourselves in their situation, we would feel the same way.

I think it benefits us to keep this in mind as this story unfolds.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you've said. :clap:
 
southcitymom said:
Yes, I understand that the Courts in this case will probably appoint a guardian ad litem for each child. In most states, the Court will also take a child's desires into account when the child is in the 12-14 range. In terms of considering viewpoints, most Courts historically look first to the guardian ad litem, second to the parent and finally to the child.

I do agree that this case will certainly bring about some new legal precedents in the areas of parents rights, children rights and the right to practice a faith of one's choosing (not to mention the rights of government to storm into a community on the word of a fraud).

I would think the younger children will probably just want to be with their parents, wherever they are. The older children will probably have strong personal opinions one way or another. I am curious to see how the women will respond. Some will like what they see out here, but others will want to go back.

It is going to take a long time to sort out - imo, by the time many of these issues are settled, some of the children will be grown. The family structure of the FLDS is so different than the norm - that piece alone will take forever to resolve.

I am sure that no one involved wishes to send the children back into an abusive environment, but I will be very surprised if this group does not re-congregate in some form of fashion. And - I suspect that if they cannot congregate with their own children among them, they will just have more.
Click to expand...

A friend is a CPS worker and they have a standard procedure. Let's say a young child is taken away from it's parents because of neglect, and both parents are alcoholics. CPS will place the child in a temporary foster home, while they investigate and make recommendation to the court. The parents are court ordered to attend an alcohol rehab and to take parenting classes. The parents will start out with monitored visitation with their child. As the parents make progress in their alcohol recovery and parenting classes, they will move to unsupervised visitation, and then to weekend visitation before regaining custody. During this time, CPS is in contact with the rehab program to monitor the parent's progress, and will also keep in contact with the parenting program instructors to make sure the parents are attending.

The FLDS mothers have already demonstrated that they're not trustworthy. They've been evasive in answering simple questions, and have instructed their children to not answer questions as well. In a similar situation as I outlined above, I can't see the FLDS being cooperative. I feel that the minute they had the opportunity, they'd take the children a leave for parts unknown.
 
Interesting Leila. I wonder how the CPS views the plural "marriage" situation as it replates to child welfare. Let's say there are 5 children from one mother and that mother is wife #6 and there are 35 other children in the household. The CPS worker investigates and determines that there is no physical or sexual abuse in the household with any of the minor children, BUT wife #6 will not leave her husband and wives 1-5 + 35 other children. Does the CPS worker allow the children and mother to reunite with the rest of the household, OR does CPS view the act of polygamy a crime and an endangerment to the children?
 
Check out this link. Hopefully no one has posted it and I'm not just repeating. It's a strange remix of the polygamist women talking to the media. Very catchy and funny but with some inexplicable president Bush references. Anyhow, I thought it was hilarious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICf7MaXyKs
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OMG That was hilarious. I hadn't seen that particular interview. Does anyone have the link to an unmixed version? I find it peculiar that the woman are suddenly SOOO animated. I mean,the smiles and voices and facial expressions are all so over the top!! lol It's obvious they were "told" to stop being so robotic like. Anyone else get that impression??
 
Pepper said:
Interesting Leila. I wonder how the CPS views the plural "marriage" situation as it replates to child welfare. Let's say there are 5 children from one mother and that mother is wife #6 and there are 35 other children in the household. The CPS worker investigates and determines that there is no physical or sexual abuse in the household with any of the minor children, BUT wife #6 will not leave her husband and wives 1-5 + 35 other children. Does the CPS worker allow the children and mother to reunite with the rest of the household, OR does CPS view the act of polygamy a crime and an endangerment to the children?
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That's a very interesting question! And one I'd like to pose to my CPS worker friend the next time I see her. I have the feeling though, that the situation in Texas is a unique situation. I'd venture to guess that most CPS workers don't run into a plural marriage situation in their entire career. I doubt they'd run into a plural marriage situation here in southern California.

I think CPS in Utah and Arizona must be involved in cases of minors leaving the FLDS in those areas. At the child brides website that has stories of those who escaped polygamy, it stated that two 16 year old girls who left the Colorado City, made their way to Phoenix. It was stated that a case worker placed them both together in a foster home. So, that had to have involved CPS.
 
Leila said:
A friend is a CPS worker and they have a standard procedure. Let's say a young child is taken away from it's parents because of neglect, and both parents are alcoholics. CPS will place the child in a temporary foster home, while they investigate and make recommendation to the court. The parents are court ordered to attend an alcohol rehab and to take parenting classes. The parents will start out with monitored visitation with their child. As the parents make progress in their alcohol recovery and parenting classes, they will move to unsupervised visitation, and then to weekend visitation before regaining custody. During this time, CPS is in contact with the rehab program to monitor the parent's progress, and will also keep in contact with the parenting program instructors to make sure the parents are attending.

The FLDS mothers have already demonstrated that they're not trustworthy. They've been evasive in answering simple questions, and have instructed their children to not answer questions as well. In a similar situation as I outlined above, I can't see the FLDS being cooperative. I feel that the minute they had the opportunity, they'd take the children a leave for parts unknown.
Click to expand...

Great post, Leila!

Lion
 
tjnak: The original unmixed interview was from ABC I think. But I can't find it anywhere now. I saw it live. The redheaded girl was on a few interviews but I think her "preisthood heads" got wind of the fact that most people in the real world were very unnerved by the fact that she kept smiling and smiling at a time when she was supposed to be upset because "the children" had been taken away. So, she stopped appearing on interviews and I haven't seen her since. The unibrow lady seemed to have taken her place with the fake tears the cult seemed to think might appear more appropriate. Very strange.
 
I had seen the trailer for Banking on Heaven before but didn't find it again until tonight. Others may have posted it. Anyways, one woman talks about drowning deformed babies as acceptable behavior. Below is the link if you haven't seen if before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6pBftroEc
 
SuziQ said:
I had seen the trailer for Banking on Heaven before but didn't find it again until tonight. Others may have posted it. Anyways, one woman talks about drowning deformed babies as acceptable behavior. Below is the link if you haven't seen if before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6pBftroEc
Click to expand...

So that may answer the question as to why with this much inbreeding we haven't seen a lot of disabled children.
 
SuziQ said:
I had seen the trailer for Banking on Heaven before but didn't find it again until tonight. Others may have posted it. Anyways, one woman talks about drowning deformed babies as acceptable behavior. Below is the link if you haven't seen if before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6pBftroEc
Click to expand...

:mad: As if they didn't seem twisted enough already. Uh, that makes me despise the flds group even more. Good video, Suzi, thanks for posting it.
 
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