Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[SuziQ]

Here is the link to order the cd Banking on Heaven:

http://bankingonheaven.com/shopping.html

 

[SuziQ]

So that may answer the question as to why with this much inbreeding we haven't seen a lot of disabled children.

That may be the sad sick truth right there.

I need to try to find Flora Jessops interview where she talks about domestic violence in the FLDS. IIRC it comes from not so much the husband but the sister wives due to jealousy in a polygamist relationship. I'll try to find the interview. If anyone has the link please post it. TIA.

 

[SuziQ]

As if they didn't seem twisted enough already. Uh, that makes me despise the flds group even more. Good video, Suzi, thanks for posting it.

There are just not enough numbers out there to count the ways this is all wrong.

 

[mysteriew]

It's just not a comparable analogy for me. If CPS came to my house and took my children, they would be dealing with someone who lives fairly fully (moreso than these women and children) in the modern world and they would be dealing with a simple family structure - one husband, one wife, 2 kids. This is not the case for the FLDS.

Additionally, if my family were stormed on and accosted in the manner these folks were, I'd be out of my friggin' mind and I can't really tell you how I would respond. I don't know if it would be rational - it may well be criminal - it's hard for me to even envision. I can tell you that if I ever got wind that CPS was heading to my home to take my children, I'd be out of this country with them so fast your head would spin. But that's neither here nor there.

We can think they're crazy as loons and criminal for living the way they were living. We can want to protect the children and get them out of an abusive environment. But, even with those things in mind, it should not be hard to grasp the fact that - whether we like them or not - these woman and children are scared and they don't really know what to do and they don't trust the people who are trying to "help" them.

And you know what? - I'll bet if any of us found ourselves in their situation, we would feel the same way.

I think it benefits us to keep this in mind as this story unfolds.

It is my understanding that when trying to sort out the mothers/children they might approach a person thought to be a mother of a child. She might tell them her name was Sarah and her child was Jacob. The next time they went back to talk to the same person, she might say her name was Becky and her child's name was Matthew (I made these names up for clarity). One time she might say it was her child, the next time she might say it was someone else's child. To me, that shows a dispute over maternity. In order to prove it is her child, she is going to have to give DNA. Because according to her words, the child could be Sarah's or Becky's or someone else's. Since CPS doesn't know who the mother is, they will have to prove maternity before they know who to give the child back to. Otherwise, they could be returning the wrong child to the wrong mother.

Of the 25 new ones believed to be minors. I wonder if anyone has considered the number who returned to the compound. I wonder if anyone has considered the fact that some of those might be minors also but might have just appeared older?

 

[SuziQ]

Watch this interview of Carolyn Jessop describing her escape from the FLDS. All these years later, the anxiety in reliving that night is severe. You can see it in her face and hear it in her voice. Notice her breathing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAvqc5u9KM

 

[mysteriew]

Judge Denies Warren Jeff's Motion for a New Trial.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695273465,00.html

The last line in the article states..................

Jeffs is also the father of an unknown number of children now in state custody in Texas.

I wonder if these are bio children or "reassigned" children? I had a reason for asking how many bio children Jeffs has. Earlier there was a link that indicated that Jeffs as a young man had a history of assaulting young boys. A history that has been alleged to have continued.

We all know that once a pedo assaults, they will often keep assaulting. Jeffs started at a young age- I think it shows a preference on his part for young males. I am wondering if in taking his father's wives he wasn't setting up a 'beard' for himself. Like perhaps he needed to show that he had normal wives, but didn't necessarily have relations with them much. Who is more likely to protect him and keep the secret than his father's wives? His father's wives would also be more likely to keep any new "reassigned" wives and children in control and quiet. And God help the new "reassigned" male children!

 

[SuziQ]

This isn't the interview of Flora that I'm looking for. But she does talk some about the DV between the wives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI6AWDs6UF0

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Suzi I read that yesterday and it even had me breathing hard and about to have an anxiety attack myself.. I wonder how she knew to get out? I wonder what made her realize this life was wrong and there was a different life/world out there...how did she know?

Watch this interview of Carolyn Jessop describing her escape from the FLDS. All these years later, the anxiety in reliving that night is severe. You can see it in her face and hear it in her voice. Notice her breathing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAvqc5u9KM

 

[SuziQ]

Laurie Allen is the filmaker of Banking on Heaven. Her bio is below:

http://bankingonheaven.com/bios.html

Laurie Allen
Laurie Allen was born into the infamous and violent LeBaron polygamous sect. Her uncle Ervil LeBaron killed 28 people, and became known as the Mormon Manson. Her cousin Jacqueline Tarsa LeBaron is on the FBI's Most Wanted list. When she was eight, a polygamist kidnapped Laurie from Chihuahua, got in some trouble with the law, and eventually fled to Central America, keeping her as his interpreter. Laurie fought off the religious indoctrination, escaped at age sixteen, and found passage back to the United States. Fluent in Spanish and dedicated to freedom and human rights, she earned a college degree and went on to film school. BANKING ON HEAVEN exposes a cult similar to the one that nearly absorbed her when she was very young and vulnerable.
Now Laurie Allen is a filmmaker with a vision and a goal. Her background makes her the one filmmaker who could produce BANKING ON HEAVEN, a documentary about the abuse and corruption inherent in America’s polygamous sects.

 

[Fairy1]

It's just not a comparable analogy for me. If CPS came to my house and took my children, they would be dealing with someone who lives fairly fully (moreso than these women and children) in the modern world and they would be dealing with a simple family structure - one husband, one wife, 2 kids. This is not the case for the FLDS.

Additionally, if my family were stormed on and accosted in the manner these folks were, I'd be out of my friggin' mind and I can't really tell you how I would respond. I don't know if it would be rational - it may well be criminal - it's hard for me to even envision. I can tell you that if I ever got wind that CPS was heading to my home to take my children, I'd be out of this country with them so fast your head would spin. But that's neither here nor there.

We can think they're crazy as loons and criminal for living the way they were living. We can want to protect the children and get them out of an abusive environment. But, even with those things in mind, it should not be hard to grasp the fact that - whether we like them or not - these woman and children are scared and they don't really know what to do and they don't trust the people who are trying to "help" them.

And you know what? - I'll bet if any of us found ourselves in their situation, we would feel the same way.

I think it benefits us to keep this in mind as this story unfolds.

Southcitymom - I don't know exactly why you are defending these people, but your sympathy is tragically misplaced. It is true that - for the most part - the women and children do not know the magnitude to which they are pawns in a demented game. But trust me, the men know exactly what they are doing and their victims deserve protection and CHOICES. This truly is not about religion, but about sex, control and money. Religious freedom is not a factor here.

 

[SuziQ]

Suzi I read that yesterday and it even had me breathing hard and about to have an anxiety attack myself.. I wonder how she knew to get out? I wonder what made her realize this life was wrong and there was a different life/world out there...how did she know?

That's the same reaction I had to watching that vid. I'm thinking she realized how dangerous things were. As in deadly dangerous. Whatever it was, it had to be worth risking kidnapping and stealing a car.

BTW, the Tattered Cover Bookstore was one of my clients way back when I worked for a publisher. A really neat lady owns that store.

 

[mollymalone]

I think they lie for many reasons. They feel attacked and persecuted. They do not know what is going on and what is going to happen to them and their children. The life they have known and made for years (and no matter how criminal we might consider that life, it is still a comfort and security to them) has ben ripped apart. They do not know if telling the turth will help them or hurt them. And on and on.

I can understand their terror and confusion. I can understand the lies. They do not trust the people who have taken them. Distrust does not engender open honest communication.

In the distant future the lives of these children and women may be better because of this dismantling of their way of life, but right now they can't see that and I wouldn't really expect them to.

All of this is likely true, but the fact remains that Warren Jeffs ordered his followers to LIE to outsiders, whether they be govt. or not. That was long before this incident happened. He's pitted them against each other, to spy and report bad deeds on each other. There's no telling how many lies were told against others just to gain points with him or the other men. Many lied when they filled out welfare applications as part of bleeding the beast. Lying has become part and parcel of their culture.

 

[Fairy1]

Laurie Allen is the filmaker of Banking on Heaven. Her bio is below:

http://bankingonheaven.com/bios.html

Laurie Allen
Laurie Allen was born into the infamous and violent LeBaron polygamous sect. Her uncle Ervil LeBaron killed 28 people, and became known as the Mormon Manson. Her cousin Jacqueline Tarsa LeBaron is on the FBI's Most Wanted list. When she was eight, a polygamist kidnapped Laurie from Chihuahua, got in some trouble with the law, and eventually fled to Central America, keeping her as his interpreter. Laurie fought off the religious indoctrination, escaped at age sixteen, and found passage back to the United States. Fluent in Spanish and dedicated to freedom and human rights, she earned a college degree and went on to film school. BANKING ON HEAVEN exposes a cult similar to the one that nearly absorbed her when she was very young and vulnerable.
Now Laurie Allen is a filmmaker with a vision and a goal. Her background makes her the one filmmaker who could produce BANKING ON HEAVEN, a documentary about the abuse and corruption inherent in America’s polygamous sects.

Thank you SuziQ - and Laurie -- YOU GO GIRL!!! Ervil was not smart enough to keep his perceived power under control - he killed his own daughter!!! But Warren Jeffs is and he is dangerous because of that. The US sects recognize him as their "prophet" and it will be difficult - maybe impossible - to counter that perception with sect members above the age of...say 13.

 

[Truly]

It's just not a comparable analogy for me. If CPS came to my house and took my children, they would be dealing with someone who lives fairly fully (moreso than these women and children) in the modern world and they would be dealing with a simple family structure - one husband, one wife, 2 kids. This is not the case for the FLDS.

Additionally, if my family were stormed on and accosted in the manner these folks were, I'd be out of my friggin' mind and I can't really tell you how I would respond. I don't know if it would be rational - it may well be criminal - it's hard for me to even envision. I can tell you that if I ever got wind that CPS was heading to my home to take my children, I'd be out of this country with them so fast your head would spin. But that's neither here nor there.

We can think they're crazy as loons and criminal for living the way they were living. We can want to protect the children and get them out of an abusive environment. But, even with those things in mind, it should not be hard to grasp the fact that - whether we like them or not - these woman and children are scared and they don't really know what to do and they don't trust the people who are trying to "help" them.

And you know what? - I'll bet if any of us found ourselves in their situation, we would feel the same way.

Look, everybody knows that children who have been imprisoned in a cult that forces them to have sex with old men are going to be scared. The cult leaders are the ones responsible for terrorizing them, not the people who have stepped in to help them.

Are you asking us to have sympathy for these con-men child molesters because they are afraid of facing prison terms? Are you asking us to equate the fear of the perps with the fears of their victims?

Because I could give a flying flip about how the perps feel. They have imprisoned and sexually assaulted hundreds of children. They need to face the music.

 

[mollymalone]

I wonder if these are bio children or "reassigned" children? I had a reason for asking how many bio children Jeffs has. Earlier there was a link that indicated that Jeffs as a young man had a history of assaulting young boys. A history that has been alleged to have continued.

We all know that once a pedo assaults, they will often keep assaulting. Jeffs started at a young age- I think it shows a preference on his part for young males. I am wondering if in taking his father's wives he wasn't setting up a 'beard' for himself. Like perhaps he needed to show that he had normal wives, but didn't necessarily have relations with them much. Who is more likely to protect him and keep the secret than his father's wives? His father's wives would also be more likely to keep any new "reassigned" wives and children in control and quiet. And God help the new "reassigned" male children!

Hm, well, he did take on 20 "younger" wives, although I've not seen any report on how old those wives were and he has fathered children unless that's all a smokescreen too and many of those children were reassigned babies. Edited to add: I do believe he's continued to assault young males though. I don't think he's changed his behaviour.

 

[Fairy1]

Children are remarkably resilient. In this particular case, it seems many of these children do not actually know who their real parents are. That makes me believe that no real bonding between mothers and children has ever occurred. The children can and will assimilate.

 

[cheko1]

From all appearances, Warren Jeffs is to some extent a faker. While in the FLDS community he acts the role of pious prophet, but outside the community, he shucks the trappings of that pious life and lives like anyone else - driving a red car, and having all the luxuries of modern living. If other reports are accurate - that he was wearing burmuda shorts - then one would have to assume he wasn't wearing the long holy underwear of the sect.

He's one of them that says:
Don't do as I do / Do as I say!!!!!!

The Cadillac Escalade is quite the Luxury vehicle!
He is a hypoctie!!!! Makes me sick.....

 

[mollymalone]

There's a lot of those women who could be charged for child abandonment (for sons they put out on the street) and for not protecting their child from sexual or other abuse. Those who were raised and kept isolated I can see where they might not feel able to do anything, especially with the threat of physical violence or death hanging over their heads. But hell, even those isolated like Carolyn, or Flora, or the others we've read about KNEW instinctively that abuse wasn't right and knew they had to leave to protect their children. So I find it hard to find sympathy for many of those who are spinning the mantra of "there's choice here." I don't find an underage child having a "choice" in the matter of sex with an adult, nor do I find choice in putting up guard shacks, barbed wire and regimenting people's lives with fear.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Guys:

Is it me, or does the call sound like it is from a white person, and not a black person. To me it sounds like there is no way possible that a black person made those calls.

 

[mollymalone]

Children are remarkably resilient. In this particular case, it seems many of these children do not actually know who their real parents are. That makes me believe that no real bonding between mothers and children has ever occurred. The children can and will assimilate.

Taking a child from the mother at birth and handing it to several other "mothers" leaves little room for the bioligical mother to be able to bond with the child. It appears they may be taking those babies and not handing them over to women within their particular compound, but are sending them to others as well. It's no wonder those children have no idea who's their parents. There've been so many young children reassigned who have had to call each successive "father" their parent it's no wonder they're confused as to who daddy really is.