Was BR involved? #2

[UKGuy]

I see him as a victim too. Imagining him pretending to sleep while all that awful activity was going on, is bone chilling. He told a dr. that he knew what happened... 'Dr. Bernhard asked what he thought happened to his sister. Burke, showing the first signs of irritation during the interview, responded, "I know what happened, she was killed.” Burke's explanation to the doctor was “someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." This makes me think maybe he heard/saw some things? And from how I read it, it seems like he's saying someone took her from her room, so you could be right about her being carried and the garland. The interview also said, 'When specifically discussing the crime, he related that he did not hear any noises that night and that he was asleep, but he admitted that he usually hears when someone opens the refrigerator door downstairs'. This is confusing, because we don't know if he was asked about the refrigerator or if he volunteered the information. If he was asked, why? If he brought it up, why? Did this have something to do with the pineapple? moo

dodie20,
BBM: good point. I'll bet he was asked about the fridge, since if he was sound asleep then he would never have heard anything anyway. It has to be some response to a question regarding JonBenet snacking pineapple.

“someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head."

quietly and hit her on the head: How would anyone know she was unconcious so quiet and had been whacked on the head so hit her on the head suggests BR knows more than he lets on?

He clearly was not as accomplished as his parents at lying!

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[elannia]

I dont get why Burke was discussing with DS 2 days after the murder about how JB was strangled, when supposedly they didnt know and it wasnt released in the paper until later on (Kolar's book) Unless JR had told him after she was found which I seem unlikely to believe. Then the 911 call "what did you find" to me ties in when he asked his father "where did you find her"? Could this mean(and i know he was only 9 at the time( but kids are capable of more than we know) but could he have given that head blow and used the paintbrush on her and strangled her? Its sounds out there I know but he could have and by Patsys interviews she remembers John yelling from the basement before the 911 call and maybe this is when he actually found her. So now what time did the parents begin the staging? Or did they use the garrote on her thinking she was already dead. I strongly believe BDI now, and I know people do hurt and kill their kids but imo it was BR and the parents covered for him.

 

[elannia]

More points to add... the feces in JB black pants in bathroom, when did this occur(were these the ones she wore to the Whites?) and surely her parents noticed the smell when they put her to "bed", bottoms in her room on the floor believed to be BR, the feces on the candy, etc... I would say these kids lived in one nasty house other than the housekeeper coming and cleaning. its strange also that he drew a picture and left JB out completely

 

[DeeDee249]

I dont get why Burke was discussing with DS 2 days after the murder about how JB was strangled, when supposedly they didnt know and it wasnt released in the paper until later on (Kolar's book) Unless JR had told him after she was found which I seem unlikely to believe. Then the 911 call "what did you find" to me ties in when he asked his father "where did you find her"? Could this mean(and i know he was only 9 at the time( but kids are capable of more than we know) but could he have given that head blow and used the paintbrush on her and strangled her? Its sounds out there I know but he could have and by Patsys interviews she remembers John yelling from the basement before the 911 call and maybe this is when he actually found her. So now what time did the parents begin the staging? Or did they use the garrote on her thinking she was already dead. I strongly believe BDI now, and I know people do hurt and kill their kids but imo it was BR and the parents covered for him.

I don't believe BR said "where did you find her". I believe what was heard on the enhanced tape was "what did you find?". We don't know the inflection or emphasis on the speech, though. We don't know whether he said "what DID you find?" or simply "what did you find?".

 

[DeeDee249]

More points to add... the feces in JB black pants in bathroom, when did this occur(were these the ones she wore to the Whites?) and surely her parents noticed the smell when they put her to "bed", bottoms in her room on the floor believed to be BR, the feces on the candy, etc... I would say these kids lived in one nasty house other than the housekeeper coming and cleaning. its strange also that he drew a picture and left JB out completely

It is hard to imagine Patsy ignoring the smell of feces on clothing in the bathroom or on items in JB's room (pajamas/candy box). She was messy but come on- anyone who owned a dog knows what it is like if you track even a tiny piece of feces into the house. You cannot ignore that smell, but obviously Patsy did. Maybe JB's soiling was such a constant occurrence that she was not sensitive to it- but I find that hard to imagine. Even the next morning when the Rs called in their friends and clergy-no one seemed to notice that smell. Nor did LE mention it- only Kolar mentioned it in his book- the first time many people heard of it. (on the candy box an pajama bottoms).
When police interviewed Patsy, they showed her the crime photo of the black pants on the bathroom floor with what appeared to be feces inside. Patsy told them those were "black play pants" and not the black velvet pants JB wore to the White's that day when she was asked about them."Black play pants" would refer to black cotton pants that a child would wear on an everyday basis, like jeans and not pants worn for a dressy occasion, like the velvet ones.
The police never asked Patsy when those "black play pants" had last been worn or soiled. With how messy Patsy was as far as housekeeping, they could have been from a previous day or that day- we'll never know. The housekeeper said that the house did not have a hamper. Clothes were simply dropped wherever they were taken off. There was laundry chute to the basement laundry area, but LHP said that JR was the only one who ever used it. She said that she had discussed getting some hampers for the house with Patsy, but they never did. Patsy mother Nedra used to complain to Patsy that the house was too messy and that she should keep it "picked up" more, so that when the housekeeper came, she could spend the time cleaning and not picking up clothes, toys, etc.

 

[elannia]

I don't believe BR said "where did you find her". I believe what was heard on the enhanced tape was "what did you find?". We don't know the inflection or emphasis on the speech, though. We don't know whether he said "what DID you find?" or simply "what did you find?".

I believe I read from one of BR interviews that he said he asked his dad where he found her.Or maybe it was Kolar's book... anyways, the comment had nothing to do with the 911 call

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I believe I read from one of BR interviews that he said he asked his dad where he found her.Or maybe it was Kolar's book... anyways, the comment had nothing to do with the 911 call

The enhancement of the 911 call had BR at the end asking "what did you find?"

I don't know of any conversation where BR asked JR where he found her, but it seems reasonable that he would ask that at some point.

 

[andreww]

As to that enhanced 911 call, I've listened to it on YouTube a 100 times and I can't hear what is supposedly being said. Is it just me?


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[elannia]

As to that enhanced 911 call, I've listened to it on YouTube a 100 times and I can't hear what is supposedly being said. Is it just me?


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Otg had linked it and I listened to it. And I could definitely hear him ask at the end, I didnt hear JR talking but I did hear a young boy asking what did you find. Go to the thread about the 911 call and tap the link from there. There is even one that has been enhanced at the end so its easier to hear.

 

[elannia]

The enhancement of the 911 call had BR at the end asking "what did you find?"

I don't know of any conversation where BR asked JR where he found her, but it seems reasonable that he would ask that at some point.

Yes, I have listened to that tape. But I have read and sorry I cant remember where but BR said he asked him where he found her.

 

[dodie20]

Yes, I have listened to that tape. But I have read and sorry I cant remember where but BR said he asked him where he found her.

It was in the interview he had with the dr., the same one where he drew the family picture etc... he said the only thing he asked his dad was where he found JB. moo

 

[UKGuy]

It was in the interview he had with the dr., the same one where he drew the family picture etc... he said the only thing he asked his dad was where he found JB. moo

dodie20,
That is interesting, assuming the interpretation of the 911 call says BR asked JR What did you find? then BR has altered his version of events.

That BR faked being asleep tells you he was in collusion with his parents. You have to ask if he knew in advance that JR was going to engineer his relocation out of the house?

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[andreww]

I think its pretty obvious that all three Ramseys have altered their version of events. Pretty simple to follow as well, "we all went to bed and saw or heard nothing". As if Burke could have slept through Patsy's dramatic, blood curdling scream for John. With all that was going on that morning we are expected to believe that Burke never once came out of his room to find out what was going on? Never did he ask why the cops were there and never did he ask where his sister was? Pretty hard to believe if you ask me.

 

[Chelly]

I think its pretty obvious that all three Ramseys have altered their version of events. Pretty simple to follow as well, "we all went to bed and saw or heard nothing". As if Burke could have slept through Patsy's dramatic, blood curdling scream for John. With all that was going on that morning we are expected to believe that Burke never once came out of his room to find out what was going on? Never did he ask why the cops were there and never did he ask where his sister was? Pretty hard to believe if you ask me.

We really don't know if Patsy produced a blood curdling scream, do we? All three were involved and all three lied. Nothing they said can be taken as evidence.

 

[KeyboardCat]

I think if it Burke was involved, it would have been handled very differently: He would have been squirreled out of town to a relative, vacation cancelled, and that novel of a ransom note wouldn't have been found until maybe a couple days later.

 

[andreww]

We really don't know if Patsy produced a blood curdling scream, do we? All three were involved and all three lied. Nothing they said can be taken as evidence.

Thats true, but John testified that he heard Patsy yell from his bathroom on the third floor and that from her tone, immediately knew something was wrong. If the Ramseys are to be believed, then I ask how Burke could not have possibly been awakened at that point? His room was closer to where Patsy claimed she was standing when she called out. I guess its the funky acoustics in that house, some screams are heard, some aren't.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thats true, but John testified that he heard Patsy yell from his bathroom on the third floor and that from her tone, immediately knew something was wrong. If the Ramseys are to be believed, then I ask how Burke could not have possibly been awakened at that point? His room was closer to where Patsy claimed she was standing when she called out. I guess its the funky acoustics in that house, some screams are heard, some aren't.

That's assuming you believe that BR was asleep. I believe he was awake. Possibly told by his parents to stay in his room until they came to get him.

 

[icedtea4me]

Out of curiosity, was the toy John said he and Burke were working on Christmas night on the first floor still out the morning of 26 Dec and, if so, what room was it in?

 

[elannia]

Out of curiosity, was the toy John said he and Burke were working on Christmas night on the first floor still out the morning of 26 Dec and. IIRC, JR told two different versions, one they put together a parking garage(DOI) and I honestly cannot remember the other toy he mentioned(I think it was in TOSOS), obviously he couldnt remember either because his story changed when he authored TOSOS.....

 

[questfortrue]

Out of curiosity, was the toy John said he and Burke were working on Christmas night on the first floor still out the morning of 26 Dec and, if so, what room was it in?

Nice to see you icedtea4me. The toy was shown as partially unwrapped in the wc. Kolar shows a photo of it in his book, and I posted a photo of it on this thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?129344-The-Wine-Cellar&p=11207557#post11207557 I believe its description is a garage with moving parts (robotic), and it can be seen on one of the historical lego websites. I thought it may have been meant for BR's birthday later in January.