Was BR involved? #2

[FrankieB]

I don't know about you but Burke's reason for not speaking to LE back then is reasonable. It was finals week and they didn't even call before showing up. I'm really straying far from BDI as days pass by.

 

[neesaki]

:cow: In search for the truth of what happened to end JonBenet's life the night she died, all areas, where there are clues, should be explored. From Tricia's radio podcast with James Kolar, Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor, claims the fruit [pineapple] found in JBs body contained benzoids. Thus, singularity, you may be closer than you think in suggesting that JonBenet was served a fruity daiquiri cocktail prior to the assault but maybe it wasn't a virgin daiquiri. If Benzoids were served to JB, that rules out the brother, BR.

Using benzoids may have created amnesia for JBR. If this practice, of grooming for long-term sexual abuse, occurred with minor frequency, at first, giving benzos to JB would help create that barrier where she would not recall the incident. Recently, JonBenet had reported to her teacher that she remembered the dark robes being worn by others and vague memories of candles.

"Benzodiazepines, a class of psychoactive drugs called the "minor" tranquilizers, have varying hypnotic, sedative, anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, and muscle relaxing properties, but they may create the exact opposite effects." IOW, creates a relaxed state of being.

"Retrograde amnesia (RA) is a loss of memory-access to events that occurred, or information that was learned, before an injury..."

"Ribot's Law: where subjects are more likely to lose memories closer to the traumatic incident than more remote memories.[2] The type of information that is forgotten can be very specific, like a single event, or more general, resembling generic amnesia." IOW, JBR was able to forget, or not remember things, that occurred while under the influence.

Side effects of benzos, Valium, in particular: Euphoria. Decreased memory consolidation. [I chose Valium, or Diazepam, since we know Patsy had taken it and TG specifically mentioned Valium. There were some drugs found in the home, perhaps, Patsy's meds, but can't recall now what they were.]

JK gives 45m to upwards of 2h from ingesting the pineapple until TOD. It was a golden opp for him to disclose to us that more food than pineapple was found. I just don't think JK placed an emphasis on the food contents yet noted how long it took to digest to the point where it was found in her duodenum. Also, of note, no drugs were reportedly found in JBRs system in data we've accessed. However, as we are discovering, we've been mislead in several areas and this may be another. Or else why would Wendy Murphy state evidence like that in an email to TGriffith?

JK was brought into the case by Mary Lacy in 2004, became Chief Investigator, and stayed for 4 months before resigning at a stalemate with ML. Thus, he wasn't present in the beginning, although he had case notes, photos, and documents to review and interpret.

Kolar's podcast aired 3 years ago. JK starts at 07:00. The discussion on WM and the benzos begins at 12:00. At 15:16, JK states that he doesn't have the TOX screen report nor AR with him and it's been along time since he reviewed them. His thought is, based on what Tricia described as being a small amount of pineapple found in JBs GI system, that the fruit would not contain high doses of drugs.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websle...as-true-crime-radio-sunday-night-8-pm-eastern

There are no coincidences, only clues. James Kolar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_amnesia
http://drugabuse.com/library/the-effects-of-valium-use/

Forgive me, but I'm a little confused. Are you saying that Wendy Murphy has evidence that there were benzodiazapines in JBR ? It sounds as though she stated this, then again according to Kolar, it wasn't a fact. I guess my question is, is this just pure speculation ? Is it still unknown? Or, am I just misunderstanding? TIA

 

[BBB167893]

:rockon:

A magnificent post, SD!

I'm just getting warmed up.

 

[singularity]

Kolar also claimed there was no doll in the wine cellar even though Stevie Wonder could see one in there. Kolar's facts are starting to stand on very thin ice.

 

[midwest mama]

Schedule has been updated (which you would already know if you signed up for email updates).

Hi otg..
Watching Dateline tonite, commercial came on saying next Fri, the 9th, they are doing a JonBenet show. You have time to validate info and add it to your calendar?

 

[midwest mama]

Forgive me, but I'm a little confused. Are you saying that Wendy Murphy has evidence that there were benzodiazapines in JBR ? It sounds as though she stated this, then again according to Kolar, it wasn't a fact. I guess my question is, is this just pure speculation ? Is it still unknown? Or, am I just misunderstanding? TIA

To my knowledge there has not been an official update to the autopsy report, which states no drugs. However, if the typical level of tox screen was used for her forensics at autopsy, it could miss some drugs, which require a higher sensitivity level tox screen that is routinely used in autopsies. IMO, they may have run another screen separately after the autopsy, having suspected they needed to test further and decided to keep results closely guarded.

 

[otg]

Hi otg..
Watching Dateline tonite, commercial came on saying next Fri, the 9th, they are doing a JonBenet show. You have time to validate info and add it to your calendar?

:tyou:
TY, mw mm. I added it to the schedule (only takes a minute). If you, or anyone else, see something like this, let me know and I'll add it to the schedule. I kind of imagine a lot of regularly scheduled shows like Dateline will be having segments due to the approaching 20-yr anniversary. I don't watch a lot of TV with so many other things going on. That's the reason I don't take the time to post much lately. But I read here every day; so if it's posted here, I'll see it and update as needed.

Thanks again. :blowkiss:

 

[otg]

To my knowledge there has not been an official update to the autopsy report, which states no drugs. However, if the typical level of tox screen was used for her forensics at autopsy, it could miss some drugs, which require a higher sensitivity level tox screen that is routinely used in autopsies. IMO, they may have run another screen separately after the autopsy, having suspected they needed to test further and decided to keep results closely guarded.

Any autopsy report is like a preliminary document of what the ME sees upon examining the body. It comes from the root words auto- (meaning self) and -psy (meaning to see). It means "to see for oneself." (I know... The way we pronounce the compounded word confuses the actual meaning.) The AR is supposed to be an objective view of what the ME sees for himself -- without interpretation.

If you notice at the end of the AR, it lists evidentiary items turned over to BPD (e.g., hair and fiber, body swabs and smears, and tubes of blood). Other items requiring further testing and analysis are not mentioned (e.g., material from her GI tract that was tested and assumed to be pineapple). All those results and reports that come in later are not usually released with an AR, other than maybe a statement by authorities of what the findings were. Since those reports are not required by law to become public information as is the AR itself, it could very well be the case that there is information in them that has not been made public.

Personally, I have doubts about the validity of what Wendy Murphy said on Tricia's blogcast. I remember we were all wanting clarification from her after she said it, but TMK she never did. If that's incorrect, someone let me know. I don't recall her saying where she got that information about the tox screen.

 

[neesaki]

To my knowledge there has not been an official update to the autopsy report, which states no drugs. However, if the typical level of tox screen was used for her forensics at autopsy, it could miss some drugs, which require a higher sensitivity level tox screen that is routinely used in autopsies. IMO, they may have run another screen separately after the autopsy, having suspected they needed to test further and decided to keep results closely guarded.

Thanks again, mwm. I didn't realize that Wendy Murphy was talking about this issue several years ago. http://www.patriotledger.com/x17044...rugs-suspicion-of-child-*advertiser censored*

 

[eileenhawkeye]

:tyou:
TY, mw mm. I added it to the schedule (only takes a minute). If you, or anyone else, see something like this, let me know and I'll add it to the schedule. I kind of imagine a lot of regularly scheduled shows like Dateline will be having segments due to the approaching 20-yr anniversary. I don't watch a lot of TV with so many other things going on. That's the reason I don't take the time to post much lately. But I read here every day; so if it's posted here, I'll see it and update as needed.

Thanks again. :blowkiss:

I wonder if this is the NBC show that Charlie Brennan will be on?

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Any autopsy report is like a preliminary document of what the ME sees upon examining the body. It comes from the root words auto- (meaning self) and -psy (meaning to see). It means "to see for oneself." (I know... The way we pronounce the compounded word confuses the actual meaning.) The AR is supposed to be an objective view of what the ME sees for himself -- without interpretation.

Oops! My bad. The root word for the second half of the word is "opsy." (I knew something looked wrong when I read that back.) One of the O's is dropped when combined with "auto" so it doesn't become "autoopsy." :floorlaugh: (Maybe I should start using THAT word for what Dr. Meyer did -- emphasis on the "oopsy.")

 

[UKGuy]

(bbm)
Oops! My bad. The root word for the second half of the word is "opsy." (I knew something looked wrong when I read that back.) One of the O's is dropped when combined with "auto" so it doesn't become "autoopsy." :floorlaugh: (Maybe I should start using THAT word for what Dr. Meyer did -- emphasis on the "oopsy.")

otg,
Here is my oops for your delectation:

autopsy (n.)
1650s, "an eye-witnessing," from Modern Latin autopsia, from Greek autopsia "a seeing with one's own eyes," from autos- "self" (see auto-) + opsis "a sight" (see eye (n.)). Sense of "dissection of a body to determine cause of death" is first recorded 1670s, probably from the same sense in French autopsie (1570s).

au An Indo-European root, or affix.

Written in Stone: A Journey Through the Stone Age and the Origins of Modern Language Is an interesting book and audiobook published 2015, which runs through A to Z style many common forms.

Available via your favorite search engine or bookstore.

.

 

[BoldBear]

Today in the grocery store--National Enquirer top of page headline saying that Burke Ramsey's testimony has lead police to exhume Jonbenet's body for new DNA evidence. Again, I didn't purchase the rag and didn't care to look inside. If this was worth reporting, it wouldn't have just been in the Enquirer.

 

[BBB167893]

Today in the grocery store--National Enquirer top of page headline saying that Burke Ramsey's testimony has lead police to exhume Jonbenet's body for new DNA evidence. Again, I didn't purchase the rag and didn't care to look inside. If this was worth reporting, it wouldn't have just been in the Enquirer.

I'm sure that's what people said about John Edwards' love child and OJ's shoes. But those were two specific items. I agree, singularity. At this point, what could they possibly find from an exhumation?

 

[Madeleine74]

It will likely never be known whether BR had anything to do with what happened to JBR that night/morning. He's not going to confess if it was him who hit his sister and since he was 9 years old at the time, and even if it was, there's no prosecuting him and wouldn't have been back in 1996.

Everything else was a coverup and staging to make it look like something else (with PR alone or PR and JR together).

The main suspect (PR) is long dead and no additional evidence is going to be found. JR certainly isn't going to push for 'closure.'

People following the case are just going to have to accept that what happened to JBR that night most likely started out as an accident due to instant rage (no intruder) and then a coverup and staging of the crime scene. Any 'justice' will come through Karma, not from the State of CO.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I'm sure that's what people said about John Edwards' love child and OJ's shoes. But those were two specific items. I agree, singularity. At this point, what could they possibly find from an exhumation?

Hasn't she been washed inside and out? Nails cut and scraped?


SuperDave, in any of your scenario , have you thought more on the golf clubs? And that it wasn't one of John's clubs, but one out of the new set Burke got for Christmas? And the golf clubs thrown into a jumble the closet were John's, and Burke's were carried out under the police's noses. The golf club with a single hair found outside gives me pause. It is within the possibilities for the shape of the head wound. IIRC they were a junior set so they weren't as long as adult?

 

[questfortrue]

Hasn't she been washed inside and out? Nails cut and scraped?


SuperDave, in any of your scenario , have you thought more on the golf clubs? And that it wasn't one of John's clubs, but one out of the new set Burke got for Christmas? And the golf clubs thrown into a jumble the closet were John's, and Burke's were carried out under the police's noses. The golf club with a single hair found outside gives me pause. It is within the possibilities for the shape of the head wound. IIRC they were a junior set so they weren't as long as adult?

IIRC, authorities in Georgia will notify next of kin of an exhumation? An exhumation could take place if Boulder approached the Georgia court for permission. I just do not see such an action taking place in this case until after JR’s death. But actually, there is still information which can be gleaned from a skeletonized corpse: http://www.rosincerate.com/2016/03/extracting-goo-from-corpses-to-better.html

One of the advantages of using bone marrow is it sticks around even if there's only a skeleton remaining (skeletonization) or all other body parts have undergone extreme putrefaction or have been eaten by animals. It's a good place to look for drugs and poisons since it's well-connected to the bloodstream and contains lots of lipids (meaning it will take up hydrophobic compounds).

BTW, I hadn’t heard of BR receiving golf clubs for Christmas. I saw a golf club in one of the basement photos of the bags. The tag read “John” on it so I believed it possible he received a golf club or two for Christmas. Did you read somewhere that BR had received golf clubs for Christmas?

 

[BBB167893]

Hasn't she been washed inside and out? Nails cut and scraped?


SuperDave, in any of your scenario , have you thought more on the golf clubs? And that it wasn't one of John's clubs, but one out of the new set Burke got for Christmas? And the golf clubs thrown into a jumble the closet were John's, and Burke's were carried out under the police's noses. The golf club with a single hair found outside gives me pause. It is within the possibilities for the shape of the head wound. IIRC they were a junior set so they weren't as long as adult?

Well, I haven't really thought about the golf clubs as weapons. Just that the golf bag was used to hide something. If they were a junior set, then they would be shorter than an adult set, yes.

 

[questfortrue]

(bbm)
Oops! My bad. The root word for the second half of the word is "opsy." (I knew something looked wrong when I read that back.) One of the O's is dropped when combined with "auto" so it doesn't become "autoopsy." :floorlaugh: (Maybe I should start using THAT word for what Dr. Meyer did -- emphasis on the "oopsy.")

OT (Fiction warning)

Newspaper editor: And can you explain the last obit?
OTG: Yes, the driver had too much to drink, had an auto oopsy which was discovered by the coroner at autopsy; he’d seen many of these auto oopsies at autopsies. The ME was very sure of his findings, even though it’s known there are coroners who commit many mistakes, known in the coroner’s trade as autoopsies.

. . .And this is why you are no longer allowed to write obits.

 

[TeaTime]

Everything points to BR being responsible for the head injury, the sexual assaults and PR doing all the cover up.

JR was extremely intelligent and highly analytical, he would have hidden the body where it could not be found - outside of the house. The staging was chaotic as was the note. PR was the chaotic one of the 2.

Everything after the visit to the Stine's is a lie and I think everything started there.

I think when JR read the ransom note, he knew PR had written it.

I think FW suspected that the Ramseys had staged the whole ordeal and those thoughts were confirmed when JR ran straight to the wine cellar and found what was not there before.

I have always wondered what two gentlemen were over looking JBR. I suggest that there were portraits hanging on the wall directly above the wine cellar in the foyer.