Was Burke Involved? # 4

[madeleine]

his statements are conflicting and it would be more easier if there were transcripts , will keep looking. also some of his statements on dr. phil contradict things he said back when he was nine and eleven

 

[TeaTime]

I can think of a scenario where the GJ had enough evidence to show that Patsy and John jointly covered up the murder, with the GJ not knowing which one had actually committed it.






I don't know, there are probably holes in my theory, but I don't think it can be said that the only interpretation of the indictment is that Burke is the only possibility. The lawyer on CBS didn't say it was 100% clear, she said both parents could be indicted with assisting each other but it was her opinion that it related to a third person.

We haven't seen the other 14 pages of the GJ return on the charges but as far as we know, neither parent was charged with Murder in the First Degree, only felony child abuse and covering up for the murderer, knowing that the murderer committed the crime. If the GJ thought that one of the parents killed her and the other assisted in the cover up, but could not determine the actual killer, they could have and would have charged them both with the murder. I have seen this done and both went to prison after being convicted of murder.

What astounds me is that the parents knew that there was a danger in their home that posed a risk of death to JBR and did nothing about it.

Witnesses stated that JBR became quite clingy in the weeks leading up to her murder. Maybe BR was cycling through some bi-polar episodes unmedicated, and was showing increased violence towards JBR. Something tells me that meds were prescribed but were not used because of the stigma of mental illness that would take some of the shine off of the family. JMHO of course.

 

[UKGuy]

maybe dad and mom were fighting?

madeleine,
In the second videotaped interview BR is asked why he never left his bedroom to check out what was going on? Without hesitation BR replies he was scared.

Over the years he has refined his version of events, now is likely using big words to help bury whatever he knows.

One thing is 100% certain BR knows who killed JonBenet!

.

 

[madeleine]

madeleine,
In the second videotaped interview BR is asked why he never left his bedroom to check out what was going on? Without hesitation BR replies he was scared.

Over the years he has refined his version of events, now is likely using big words to help bury whatever he knows.

One thing is 100% certain BR knows who killed JonBenet!

.

IIRC Phil asks at some point whether he would have heard if someone in the home did something to her . I remember the long pause, the scared look on his face and then the reply . Probably...

I instantly thought he knows.

 

[UKGuy]

IIRC Phil asks at some point whether he would have heard if someone in the home did something to her . I remember the long pause, the scared look on his face and then the reply . Probably...

I instantly thought he knows.

madeleine,
Sure he knows. In the second videotaped interview when he is asked what he would have heard he says nothing because he sleeps so deeply. The lingusitic profiler on the CBS show said BR was trying to hard here to sell his version of events, I think he repeated twice he never heard anything, yet in some other interview he could hear the fridge door opening duh!

 

[madeleine]

“The first thing I remember is my mom bursting into my room really frantic saying ‘Oh my gosh, oh my gosh,’ running around my room, now, I know, looking for JonBenet,” he said. “I remember her saying, ‘Where’s my baby? Where’s my baby?’ I just laid there and didn’t really know what else to do.”

Asked to address the fact that skeptics believe he didn’t get out of bed to find out what was happening because he already knew, Burke Ramsey said he was scared that there may be “some bad guy downstairs.”

“I guess I kind of like to avoid conflict or, I don’t know, I guess I just felt safer there,” he said. “Part of me doesn’t want to know what was going on. I was scared, I think. I had no idea.”

==

gmab....if there is something I know about little boys is that they are CURIOUS.

 

[Tortoise]

We haven't seen the other 14 pages of the GJ return on the charges but as far as we know, neither parent was charged with Murder in the First Degree, only felony child abuse and covering up for the murderer, knowing that the murderer committed the crime. If the GJ thought that one of the parents killed her and the other assisted in the cover up, but could not determine the actual killer, they could have and would have charged them both with the murder. I have seen this done and both went to prison after being convicted of murder.

What astounds me is that the parents knew that there was a danger in their home that posed a risk of death to JBR and did nothing about it.

Witnesses stated that JBR became quite clingy in the weeks leading up to her murder. Maybe BR was cycling through some bi-polar episodes unmedicated, and was showing increased violence towards JBR. Something tells me that meds were prescribed but were not used because of the stigma of mental illness that would take some of the shine off of the family. JMHO of course.

I'm not sure about that. You are saying if one of them had committed murder and the other knew, they would both be charged with murder, but what is the difference between that and the other scenario of them knowing Burke had committed murder and their covering it up? Why not still charge them with murder in that scenario?

I don't think they would indict both for murder if there was no evidence to say who had done it.

 

[steelman]

The answer to the topic question. No, he wasn't.

Due to the Ramsey's being at a christmas party earlier that night, I believe the perpetrator had already gotten into the home and was hiding in it when they got home from the party. This goes a long ways in explaining why a three page ransom not was written...........and on the house stationary.......because the perp had plenty of time to kill before they got back home. He/she could have been in the house for hours, and hidden themselves in the same closet she was found in eventually. Nobody ever went in there for anything. After all the lights were turned off and everybody went to bed, the perp quietly went up the carpeted stairs and snuck back down while carrying an incapacitated JB.

Access into the house was through a door that had been left open after they left for the party, and the exit was made thought the window in the basement beneath the grating, to avoid detection while leaving. The person that did this had been in the home before and knew the layout remarkably well. It may have even been someone who had done repairs or construction inside the home.



I've always believed this was carried out by an ex-employee, a business rival, a beauty pageant rival, or someone who had a severe disdain for the Ramsey's.
Whoever it was, they knew that JR had received an $118,000 bonus that year.

Jon Benet wasn't killed over money, she was killed over spite. The family doted over her, and this was their punishment for a perceived evil.


I know my opinion on the matter probably isn't the most popular after having read quite a few pages of the thread, but I quit worrying about being popular around the same time I graduated jr. high school.

 

[Tortoise]

“The first thing I remember is my mom bursting into my room really frantic saying ‘Oh my gosh, oh my gosh,’ running around my room, now, I know, looking for JonBenet,” he said. “I remember her saying, ‘Where’s my baby? Where’s my baby?’ I just laid there and didn’t really know what else to do.”

Asked to address the fact that skeptics believe he didn’t get out of bed to find out what was happening because he already knew, Burke Ramsey said he was scared that there may be “some bad guy downstairs.”

“I guess I kind of like to avoid conflict or, I don’t know, I guess I just felt safer there,” he said. “Part of me doesn’t want to know what was going on. I was scared, I think. I had no idea.”

==

gmab....if there is something I know about little boys is that they are CURIOUS.

Mmm, funny how he speaks in the present tense there. 'part of me doesn't want to know', that only makes sense if he's thinking it now. Sounds like he's making that up.

 

[flourish]

That is disgusting. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

I always thought the phrase Burking (sp?) referred to the Burke and Hare events back in the day when medical students were stealing fresh bodies from graves to use in medical research since at the time they weren't allowed to study with cadavers?

I agree using it like stated above is rather tasteless.

 

[Tortoise]

steelman, intruder theories are no longer permitted, owing to there being no evidence of an intruder.

 

[madeleine]

I'm not sure about that. You are saying if one of them had committed murder and the other knew, they would both be charged with murder, but what is the difference between that and the other scenario of them knowing Burke had committed murder and their covering it up? Why not still charge them with murder in that scenario?

I don't think they would indict both for murder if there was no evidence to say who had done it.

IMO the GJ was convinced that they covered up for someone but had no idea for who ( intruder included. friendly intruder not stranger). If there is no evidence linking someone directly to the MURDER how can you say who they covered for. There is evidence of them lying and changing statements. No evidence of who hit her, strangled her or sexually abused her.

 

[Karinna]

I thought the indictments were for both PR & JR for child abuse and being an accessory to murder? And there was no mention in the indictments as to who the actual person was that committed first degree murder? If as is stated by most that believe BR killed JBR then as the law states in CO. a child under the age of 10 would not be charged with murder because a child of that age would not act with intent to kill. So even if BR admitted to investigators he was the cause of his sister's death and they could charge him, then he still wouldn't have been charged with first degree murder if it was just a horrible accident but probably they would charge him with Manslaughter. So i don't necessarily think the GJ thought BR killed JB.

 

[steelman]

steelman, intruder theories are no longer permitted, owing to there being no evidence of an intruder.

The was unknown DNA found on her panties.....didn't belong to anybody living in the house..............sounds like an intruder left it to me.

 

[Karinna]

IMO the GJ was convinced that they covered up for someone but had no idea for who ( intruder included. friendly intruder not stranger). If there is no evidence linking someone directly to the MURDER how can you say who they covered for. There is evidence of them lying and changing statements. No evidence of who hit her, strangled her or sexually abused her.

That sounds very plausible and i agree.

 

[madeleine]

I thought the indictments were for both PR & JR for child abuse and being an accessory to murder? And there was no mention in the indictments as to who the actual person was that committed first degree murder? If as is stated by most that believe BR killed JBR then as the law states in CO. a child under the age of 10 would not be charged with murder because a child of that age would not act with intent to kill. So even if BR admitted to investigators he was the cause of his sister's death and they could charge him, then he still wouldn't have been charged with first degree murder if it was just a horrible accident but probably they would charge him with Manslaughter. So i don't necessarily think the GJ thought BR killed JB.

thinking the same. Imo they concluded there is something fishy with the Ramseys version of events but had no clue who the Ramseys actually lied for. of course you can speculate that they would lie only for BR but its still only speculation

 

[Tortoise]

The was unknown DNA found on her panties.....didn't belong to anybody living in the house..............sounds like an intruder left it to me.

No, they've tested brand new underwear from the package and found DNA on it, from the manufacturing and packaging process.

 

[Karinna]

The was unknown DNA found on her panties.....didn't belong to anybody living in the house..............sounds like an intruder left it to me.

Was that the DNA they were saying could of been from the factory where they were manufactured or is that different DNA? I get a bit confused with the DNA in this case.

 

[otg]

"As a result of the case, the word burke became a byword first for death by suffocation or strangulation and eventually for any cover-up." Merriam-Webster definition of "burke"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/burke

Ironic?

Another odd thing about the name chosen for Burke was John's account of how he chose it. Maybe someone else remembers the details -- in which case it might belong more on the "Haunting Evidence" thread.

 

[madeleine]

The was unknown DNA found on her panties.....didn't belong to anybody living in the house..............sounds like an intruder left it to me.

and how exactly does this prove that the dna owner is also her killer? he could have been a person called over to help them clean the crime scene and/ or the body. until you know who the dna belongs to all the idi dna talk is useless