Was Burke involved?

[MyBelle]

That would be nice.

But I've resigned myself to never knowing.
I think that's what keeps me coming back to this case...year after year after year.... I haven't been able to let this one go since the very first day it made the news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With your medical background, would you mind reviewing the autopsy? I'm wondering if the signs of sexual abuse could have been from just the experimentation and curiosity of Burke. iow, could it have happened prior to the murder as in days or hours? I'm trying to figure out the theory that Patsy would kill JonBenet and then cover for Burke rather than make Burke stop assaulting his sister. I think another possible theory is that Patsy flew into a rage for some other reason and when confronted by John, she blamed Burke.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Bring it back to the evidence -

Burke could not either move nor strangle JB physically

Burkes pocket knife had been taken off him, he did not know where it was (raises disturbing possibility about an attempt being made to FRAME him)

Burke did not know what had been "found" that morning at the time of the 911 call

Burke's DNA was not located on or near the scene, nor his hair, pj fibres, semen, or fingerprints

This is the crime of an adult. 9 year olds simply do not have the resources to commit a forcible rape, garrotting, binding, or staging that appears in this crime.

Yes he could hit her head with force. Yes he could sexually assault her. He could even attempt to stage the scene. It's possible, but no 9 year old in the history of the world has been so criminally sophisticated as to do everything that was done, and remain persistently mute about it in the face of courts, detectives, child psychiatrists, his own parents.

Even an adult offender would struggle with that secret.

I actually think they attempted to steer suspicion towards Burke - and look, it worked.

Poor kid.

 

[Tawny]

Again, using the words "forcible rape" is implying that's what is being said here. I have not seen anyone accuse BR of "forcible rape."

It has also been repeatedly theorized that BR was not responsible for the subsequent staging after JBR was injured/dead.

I feel they attempted to steer suspicion AWAY from BR. JMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

With your medical background, would you mind reviewing the autopsy? I'm wondering if the signs of sexual abuse could have been from just the experimentation and curiosity of Burke. iow, could it have happened prior to the murder as in days or hours? I'm trying to figure out the theory that Patsy would kill JonBenet and then cover for Burke rather than make Burke stop assaulting his sister. I think another possible theory is that Patsy flew into a rage for some other reason and when confronted by John, she blamed Burke.

I don't have a medical background. The extent of my medical education consists of Ananomy & Physiology I and lI and Human Biology class and a Ethics course.

That being said. IMO Yes, absolutely it could be what you've outlined above in regards to Burke. It could have easily been part of a grooming process by either John or Patsy too

And as any good criminal defense attorney that handles child sexual abuse cases knows... It's incredibly difficult to prove chronic molestation as described in the case. There is no complaining witness, eroded hymens aren't always indicative of sexual abuse, there is no semen, no sexually transmitted diseases, no out cry witness. It's a very very steep hill to get to beyond a reasonable doubt in this particular case.

There was a panel of experts convened that made the finding iirc by viewing slides. I defer to them and lean towards believing chronic molestation... Because they're the experts and I can pull from all the other supportive evidence. Experts can't.
I'd bet my last dollar if this were to ever go to trial the Ramsey's would have zero difficultly lining up their own experts to explain it away.

There's enough research IMO to
support both sides on the subject.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

Bring it back to the evidence -

Burke could not either move nor strangle JB physically

Burkes pocket knife had been taken off him, he did not know where it was (raises disturbing possibility about an attempt being made to FRAME him)

Burke did not know what had been "found" that morning at the time of the 911 call

Burke's DNA was not located on or near the scene, nor his hair, pj fibres, semen, or fingerprints

This is the crime of an adult. 9 year olds simply do not have the resources to commit a forcible rape, garrotting, binding, or staging that appears in this crime.

Yes he could hit her head with force. Yes he could sexually assault her. He could even attempt to stage the scene. It's possible, but no 9 year old in the history of the world has been so criminally sophisticated as to do everything that was done, and remain persistently mute about it in the face of courts, detectives, child psychiatrists, his own parents.

Even an adult offender would struggle with that secret.

I actually think they attempted to steer suspicion towards Burke - and look, it worked.

Poor kid.

BBM. Well said. While it has been suggested his parents were covering for Burke because Burke was reponsible, I do agree there is a very disturbing possibility he was being framed.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't have a medical background. The extent of my medical education consists of Ananomy & Physiology I and lI and Human Biology class and a Ethics course.

That being said. IMO Yes, absolutely it could be what you've outlined above in regards to Burke. It could have easily been part of a grooming process by either of them.

And as any good criminal defense attorney that handles child sexual abuse cases knows... It's incredibly difficult to prove chronic molestation as described in the case. There is no complaining witness, eroded hymens aren't always indicative of sexual abuse, there is no semen, no sexually transmitted diseases, no out cry witness. It's a very very steep hill to get to beyond a reasonable doubt in this particular case.

There was a panel of experts convened that made the finding iirc by viewing slides. I defer to them and lean towards believing chronic molestation... Because they're the experts and I can pull from all the other supportive evidence. Experts can't.
I'd bet my last dollar if this were to ever go to trial the Ramsey's would have zero difficultly lining up their own experts to explain it away.

There's enough research IMO to
support both sides on the subject.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If such sibling experimentation was going on or was suspected by a housekeeper, surely it had been reported to Patsy. And somebody mentioned Burke had a knife that had been hidden. Is it possible Burke was cutting himself? I dunno, I just wonder if Burke also was a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe both of the children were being preyed upon by an older relative, friend, sibling.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Bring it back to the evidence -

Burke could not either move nor strangle JB physically

Burkes pocket knife had been taken off him, he did not know where it was (raises disturbing possibility about an attempt being made to FRAME him)

Burke did not know what had been "found" that morning at the time of the 911 call

Burke's DNA was not located on or near the scene, nor his hair, pj fibres, semen, or fingerprints

This is the crime of an adult. 9 year olds simply do not have the resources to commit a forcible rape, garrotting, binding, or staging that appears in this crime.

Yes he could hit her head with force. Yes he could sexually assault her. He could even attempt to stage the scene. It's possible, but no 9 year old in the history of the world has been so criminally sophisticated as to do everything that was done, and remain persistently mute about it in the face of courts, detectives, child psychiatrists, his own parents.

Even an adult offender would struggle with that secret.

I actually think they attempted to steer suspicion towards Burke - and look, it worked.

Poor kid.

IMO there is no definitive line. Burkes involvement could have been as simple as...feeding her pineapple, luring her to the basement to root through gifts he found hidden down there...for whatever reason he whacks her with a golf club, flashlight whatever...pokes her a few times with the train track thinking she's faking and goes to bed.

Patsy or John finds her...and continue....

Burke was a detached unemotional child IMO with the ability to keep a secret. No one ever said he didn't at some point confess to his parents and his shrink. We would never know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

If such sibling experimentation was going on or was suspected by a housekeeper, surely it had been reported to Patsy. And somebody mentioned Burke had a knife that had been hidden. Is it possible Burke was cutting himself? I dunno, I just wonder if Burke also was a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe both of the children were being preyed upon by an older relative, friend, sibling.

Could very well be that he was a victim too, it's just as likely he wasn't a victim and still did this. It's a mistake to believe all sex offenders were once themselves victims.

Interesting to note. In one study of polygraphed pedophiles those that claimed to have been victims themselves as children failed the polygraphs and those that denied ever being a victim generally were child victims themselves,
Seems to me...pedophiles lie, about everything.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

IMO there is no definitive line. Burkes involvement could have been as simple as...feeding her pineapple, luring her to the basement to root through gifts he found hidden down there...for whatever reason he whacks her with a golf club, flashlight whatever...pokes her a few times with the train track thinking she's faking and goes to bed.

Patsy or John finds her...and continue....

Burke was a detached unemotional child IMO with the ability to keep a secret. No one ever said he didn't at some point confess to his parents and his shrink. We would never know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

if he was under a therapist's care prior to the murder, his medical records could have been subpoenaed by the Grand Jury.

 

[Linda7NJ]

if he was under a therapist's care prior to the murder, his medical records could have been subpoenaed by the Grand Jury.

How would they have even known to ask?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

If such sibling experimentation was going on or was suspected by a housekeeper, surely it had been reported to Patsy. And somebody mentioned Burke had a knife that had been hidden. Is it possible Burke was cutting himself? I dunno, I just wonder if Burke also was a victim of sexual abuse. Maybe both of the children were being preyed upon by an older relative, friend, sibling.

I think both parents were aware.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

How would they have even known to ask?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cops interviewed Burke. I assume cops testified at the Grand Jury. For that matter, the cops could have also subpoenaed his medical records and JonBenet's.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I just cannot believe people can ignore evidence to blame Burke.


Or do I mean, lack of evidence?

Steve Thomas has always struck me as one of the few credible voices in this case. What does he say about BDI? He was there to see and absorb whereas we only can guess.

Anyone?

 

[Tawny]

We aren't ignoring evidence. We're considering evidence that includes BR.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Cops interviewed Burke. I assume cops testified at the Grand Jury. For that matter, the cops could have also subpoenaed his medical records and JonBenet's.

Oh girl, you've got a whole lot more reading to do!
Research who testified at the grand jury and who didn't and who decided and who was furious!
Then you must read for yourself all that went on concerning those medical records.
You're missing a huge chunk of this case. Huge. The politics, the coddling of the Ramsey's it is all mind boggling stuff!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I just cannot believe people can ignore evidence to blame Burke.


Or do I mean, lack of evidence?

Steve Thomas has always struck me as one of the few credible voices in this case. What does he say about BDI? He was there to see and absorb whereas we only can guess.

Anyone?

And you'd think with Steve being the lead investigator at the time...he of all people would have testified at the grand jury! Nope!

Have you read who provided testimony?

If you have....
Can you even believe evidence was presented for the IDI ? Thud? What? Yep! The grand jury heard all about it and didn't believe a word of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mama2JML]

I don't think Steve Thomas was the lead investigator, was he?...

 

[MyBelle]

I just cannot believe people can ignore evidence to blame Burke.


Or do I mean, lack of evidence?

Steve Thomas has always struck me as one of the few credible voices in this case. What does he say about BDI? He was there to see and absorb whereas we only can guess.

Anyone?

I have no clue. While message forums seem fixated on BR, it doesn't seem that any of the investigators spent much time on BR at all as a suspect.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't think Steve Thomas was the lead investigator, was he?...

Yep...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have no clue. While message forums seem fixated on BR, it doesn't seem that any of the investigators spent much time on BR at all as a suspect.

I started a Patsy only Patsy thread here. No one is on it.

It's my other favorite theory!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk