Was Burke involved?

[Whaleshark]

...If it was JAR, and not the Adult Ramseys, then Burke still might not speak up after JR dies, because JAR might still be alive. And you are assuming that he would talk after his dad dies, if it WAS just his dad and/or mom. I don't know why you think he would, but I don't think he will. Even if it wasn't him, I don't think he will ever, ever say anything. I think he will be protected by lawyers and advised to stay quiet, even if he didn't do it. So just because he doesn't talk after his dad, or his older brother dies, will not be a reason to me whether he is the one who did or not... I know you keep saying that, but I don't think he is waiting to speak, if it's not him... not going to happen either way.

 

[Chrishope]

...If it was JAR, and not the Adult Ramseys, then Burke still might not speak up after JR dies, because JAR might still be alive. And you are assuming that he would talk after his dad dies, if it WAS just his dad and/or mom. I don't know why you think he would, but I don't think he will. Even if it wasn't him, I don't think he will ever, ever say anything. I think he will be protected by lawyers and advised to stay quiet, even if he didn't do it. So just because he doesn't talk after his dad, or his older brother dies, will not be a reason to me whether he is the one who did or not... I know you keep saying that, but I don't think he is waiting to speak, if it's not him... not going to happen either way.

I agree.

 

[UKGuy]

...If it was JAR, and not the Adult Ramseys, then Burke still might not speak up after JR dies, because JAR might still be alive. And you are assuming that he would talk after his dad dies, if it WAS just his dad and/or mom. I don't know why you think he would, but I don't think he will. Even if it wasn't him, I don't think he will ever, ever say anything. I think he will be protected by lawyers and advised to stay quiet, even if he didn't do it. So just because he doesn't talk after his dad, or his older brother dies, will not be a reason to me whether he is the one who did or not... I know you keep saying that, but I don't think he is waiting to speak, if it's not him... not going to happen either way.

Whaleshark,
Here is what I think might happen. John passes on. The media start publishing who killed JonBenet stories. Case witnesses decide to cash in with exclusive interviews. So at some point I'm expecting Burke to do a press conference to clear the air, nothing inquisitive, just a statement.

Distinct from this will be the official legal position of the case. Certain legal procedures will need to be enforced or renewed etc. These or their absence will be a clue whether BDI might be correct?


.

 

[UKGuy]

...If it was JAR, and not the Adult Ramseys, then Burke still might not speak up after JR dies, because JAR might still be alive. And you are assuming that he would talk after his dad dies, if it WAS just his dad and/or mom. I don't know why you think he would, but I don't think he will. Even if it wasn't him, I don't think he will ever, ever say anything. I think he will be protected by lawyers and advised to stay quiet, even if he didn't do it. So just because he doesn't talk after his dad, or his older brother dies, will not be a reason to me whether he is the one who did or not... I know you keep saying that, but I don't think he is waiting to speak, if it's not him... not going to happen either way.

Whaleshark,
Well if its JARDI then BDI is off the table and his need to talk obviously lessens.

So just because he doesn't talk after his dad, or his older brother dies, will not be a reason to me whether he is the one who did or not..

Its not whether Burke talks that matters, its everyone else in the case and the legal procedures that apply to them or not.


.

 

[Chrishope]

Whaleshark,
Here is what I think might happen. John passes on. The media start publishing who killed JonBenet stories. Case witnesses decide to cash in with exclusive interviews. So at some point I'm expecting Burke to do a press conference to clear the air, nothing inquisitive, just a statement.

Distinct from this will be the official legal position of the case. Certain legal procedures will need to be enforced or renewed etc. These or their absence will be a clue whether BDI might be correct?


.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Flatlander]

Flatlander,
Could be, no reason to think otherwise. Although if its BDI then Fleet White and the Stines may never be able to go on the record.

This is one way we will eventually find out, since BDI will indirectly be confirmed or rejected by some official procedure.

So if the silence continues after John passes on then, for me, this will firm up the BDI theory!


You have to wonder about the Stines, was it just a money thing, or are the Ramsey links slightly more intimate?

Well there is Nathan Inouye: http://www.webbsleuths.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=203&forum=DCForumID61
The last post by the APAC at U of C in April 1997 was by "K.J.L.B Groups".
The university age group fits with someone who watched and was immersed in kidnap crime movies.

And there is this:
http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3622&Itemid=0

And isn't this odd:
When the Ramseys moved into the Boulder home of friends Glen and Susan Stine, one tabloid publication convinced neighbors who disliked the Stines to allow reporters to use their house as a base of operations. A video camera was set up in a front window, taping the unwitting Ramseys as they came and went.

National Enquirer reporters grabbed the Stines' trash, gleaning scraps of information on the Ramseys such as the name of their psychiatrist, the kinds of anti-depressants they'd been prescribed, and other leads about their activities.

One day in February 1997, the Stines struck back at the press when Globe reporter Ken Harrell tried a more direct approach. Instead of parking up the street like other reporters, he walked straight up, knocked on the Stines front door and asked to speak with the Ramseys. Susan Stine, who is sometimes called "Patsy's pit bull," opened the door a crack and asked to see his identification. As Harrell held up his wallet to show her his ID, Mrs. Stine grabbed it and slammed the door in his face. She then called the police to report a "stalker" at the front door. Officers arrived to find Harrell agitated to a degree that he indeed bore some resemblance to a crazed stalker. They put him on the ground and handcuffed him, before they realized how Mrs. Stine had contrived the situation.

John Ramsey, who was in the house when the incident occurred, later laughed about how Mrs. Stine handled the Globe reporter. At an employee meeting at the offices of his company, Access Graphics, Ramsey brought up the episode as an example of how to deal with the news media. Diane Hallis, who worked at Access Graphics, recalls that John Ramsey would look out the third floor windows of the offices trying to spot reporters. "He hated them," she says. "His anger was directed toward the media, but never toward the killer. He never mentioned the killer."

And both the Stines worked at the University of Colorado when they up and moved to Atlanta to be with the Ramsey's. Sounds rather odd to me.

 

[UKGuy]

Can you be more specific?

Chrishope,
Specifically what? Its pretty straight forward, once John passes on, then assuming its not JARDI, only Burke is left?

So if its BDI current legal procedures will have to stay in place and the case status maintained as cold-case. Otherwise it will be open season on Burke.

This is why I envisage Burke having to make some media response, or none at all, which of course might be very revealing.

Put another way, consider John Ramsey's approach, he plays the media, tossing them lumps of meat in the form of scripted interviews, and new book releases etc. But he talks to the media despite still being a prime suspect.

Now contrast that with Burke.

 

[UKGuy]

Well there is Nathan Inouye: http://www.webbsleuths.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=203&forum=DCForumID61
The last post by the APAC at U of C in April 1997 was by "K.J.L.B Groups".
The university age group fits with someone who watched and was immersed in kidnap crime movies.

And there is this:
http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3622&Itemid=0

And isn't this odd:
When the Ramseys moved into the Boulder home of friends Glen and Susan Stine, one tabloid publication convinced neighbors who disliked the Stines to allow reporters to use their house as a base of operations. A video camera was set up in a front window, taping the unwitting Ramseys as they came and went.

National Enquirer reporters grabbed the Stines' trash, gleaning scraps of information on the Ramseys such as the name of their psychiatrist, the kinds of anti-depressants they'd been prescribed, and other leads about their activities.

One day in February 1997, the Stines struck back at the press when Globe reporter Ken Harrell tried a more direct approach. Instead of parking up the street like other reporters, he walked straight up, knocked on the Stines front door and asked to speak with the Ramseys. Susan Stine, who is sometimes called "Patsy's pit bull," opened the door a crack and asked to see his identification. As Harrell held up his wallet to show her his ID, Mrs. Stine grabbed it and slammed the door in his face. She then called the police to report a "stalker" at the front door. Officers arrived to find Harrell agitated to a degree that he indeed bore some resemblance to a crazed stalker. They put him on the ground and handcuffed him, before they realized how Mrs. Stine had contrived the situation.

John Ramsey, who was in the house when the incident occurred, later laughed about how Mrs. Stine handled the Globe reporter. At an employee meeting at the offices of his company, Access Graphics, Ramsey brought up the episode as an example of how to deal with the news media. Diane Hallis, who worked at Access Graphics, recalls that John Ramsey would look out the third floor windows of the offices trying to spot reporters. "He hated them," she says. "His anger was directed toward the media, but never toward the killer. He never mentioned the killer."

And both the Stines worked at the University of Colorado when they up and moved to Atlanta to be with the Ramsey's. Sounds rather odd to me.

Flatlander,
BlueCrab did the APAC thing years ago, including considering NIDI, but it was horse that never ran.

And both the Stines worked at the University of Colorado when they up and moved to Atlanta to be with the Ramsey's. Sounds rather odd to me.

And to me, and probably 99% of RDI. If Susan Stine was willing to break the communications law I just wonder what else she got up to, also note they have melted away into background.

 

[txsvicki]

I am now convinced of prior sexual abuse but still not convinced that burke did any of it. I'd have to hear of reports from other former playmates and the comments jonbenet made to others, which have not been discussed yet. I've always thought that something happened to her the day of or just before the christmas party though.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

IN THE MATTER OF:
4
5
6 INTERVIEW WITH JOHN RAMSEY
7
8 _________________________________________________
9
10
11 TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW
12
13 VOLUME 1 OF 4
14 PAGES 1 - 246
15
16
17
18
19 JUNE 23RD, 1998
What time then did you leave the
25 White's party?
0105
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think we left at about between
2 8:30 and 9:00. Because I remember trying to get
3 Burke into bed at a reasonable hour when we went
4 home.
5 LOU SMIT: How far is the Whites from where
6 you live? I know that there is that little time
7 period in there?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well we went from the Whites
9 to the Walkers to drop off a gift.
10 LOU SMIT: Were they labeled in this diagram?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. (INAUDIBLE).
12 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) would the drive have
13 been from the Whites there?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, six minutes, five minutes.
15 It's not really far.
16 LOU SMIT: Okay.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably even less. I think
18 the kids and I stayed in the car and Patsy went
19 out to the door. It didn't take very long. Ten
20 minutes maybe.
21 LOU SMIT: Now this may not seem important
22 or anything, the dynamics of things back at that
23 time. You leave the Whites, the children are going
24 to get in the car. Is JonBenet walking with
25 anybody? I mean, describe like how they get in and
0106
1 where they go or whatever?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I don't remember
3 specifically getting in. But I know she was, I
4 mean, it's always a challenge to get them rounded
5 up and with all her toys and get them detached
6 from what they're doing and haul them away.
7 Getting thing out to the car and off we went.
8 LOU SMIT: Any particular seat arrangement?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well JonBenet sat behind me,
10 as the driver. Burke sat to her on the other side
11 of the backseat. Patsy was in the passenger seat
12 in the front.
13 LOU SMIT: Do you remember how JonBenet was
14 dressed?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: She had on a little top with a
16 silver star on it and a black pair of pants I
17 don't remember if she had color -- she probably
18 did. I don't remember what color it was.
19 LOU SMIT: How about Patsy? How was she
20 dressed?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: You know I don't remember other
22 than I've looked at pictures of their party and
23 that's my memory. But I couldn't have told you
24 without looking at the pictures.
25 LOU SMIT: And what did the pictures show?
0107
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think in the pictures she
2 had
3 like a red Christmas sweater on.
4 LOU SMIT: These pictures that you have of
5 the party, are these pictures that the police got
6 or were these extra pictures?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I think they are the ones
8 that the police got. I think they were taken at
9 the White's. I don't think we took any pictures.
10 LOU SMIT: Okay. Did anybody take any pictures
11 that you know that were at the party?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not that I remember.[/COLOR][/COLOR]13 LOU SMIT: Okay. So you drive to the Walkers,
14 that's the first one. And you were driving, do you
15 remember what the road or weather conditions were
16 like that night?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe there was no weather
18 because I would've have been concerned because I
19 knew we were flying out the next morning. So I
20 know I wasn't aware of any weather. It wasn't
21 snowing. It was dry. I don't think the drive was
22 bad.
23 LOU SMIT: Did you file a flight plan?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Mike would have done it, yeah.
25 LOU SMIT: did you talk about weather or
0108
1 anything?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I always watch the weather
3 channels for the day before we go anywhere just to
4 get a feel for the flow of things. I don't
5 remember that I was particularly concerned about
6 the weather.
7 LOU SMIT: So where did you pull into then
8 at the Walkers?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I think I pulled into the
10 driveway. And it seems like that when Patsy, as I
11 recall, she went in and she stayed a little while
12 like five minutes.
13 LOU SMIT: And she went in to do something?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Just to give the Walkers their
15 gifts.
16 LOU SMIT: Do you know what that gift was?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't at the time. I think
18 it was perfume or something like that. I remember
19 her saying, but I didn't at the time. I thought it
20 was a food (INAUDIBLE) or something like that. And
21 she came back out and we went to the Stines and
22 she had a gift for them.
23 LOU SMIT: Now did you and Burke and JonBenet
24 stay in the car, do you remember?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.
0109
1 LOU SMIT: You stayed in the car at the Walkers?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, the Walkers, yeah. I think we
3 all three stayed in the car.
4 LOU SMIT: And then you go to the Stines?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes.
8 Pulled up out the front of their house. Patsy
9 certainly went in, I don't think I did. I don't
10 remember if Burke did or not. I don't think
11 JonBenet did. But I don't remember for sure.
12 It wouldn't have been unusual for Burke to go in
13 because that was his buddy, Doug.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you have a gift for Doug?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I know Patsy
16 probably, but I don't recall. And then we debated,
17 we had a gift for the Fernies and we debated
18 whether we should go over there. But that's
19 probably 15 minutes away and we wanted to get home
20 and to bed. And we didn't know what time we would
21 get back. So we left the Stines and drove home.
22 LOU SMIT: So your concern then was mainly you
23 didn't want to spend that extra time (INAUDIBLE).
24 Why?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was 15 minutes over
0110
1 there and both the kids might want to go in and it
2 would have been half an hour, 45 minutes before we
3 went home. And we had to get up early next
4 morning. They were tired. They had been up all
5 day. So we said, well, we'd do that when we got
6 back.7 LOU SMIT: So when you leave the Steins,
8 Patsy returns or whatever and that's just a short
9 distance to your house, I imagine. What? Just a
10 couple of minutes? And was Burke asleep at this
11 time (INAUDIBLE)?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: JonBenet, when we pulled into
13 the drive, she was sound asleep because I remember
14 getting her out of the car and she was just out.

**Note: The Stines lived 6 blocks away **JonBenet : Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Page 317: With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25. When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder. He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night. He heard the house creaking during the night, he said, and when he awoke, his mother was turning on the lights and in a rush, saying, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," then his father turned the lights on and off again. Burke stayed in bed wondering if something had happened. He heard his father trying to calm his mother, then telling her to call the police. Burke told the detective he did not get out of bed that morning and that a policeman looked into his room. He recalled thinking that when the police arrived "we would probably be tied up all day" and that he was disappointed the family would not be going to Charlevoix as planned."

I believe JB and BR were awake when they got home. They had a snack together then played doctor. I personally do not see it being far fetched that Burke could had hit JB with a gold club (driver) and have done the damage he did without intention. I was reading earlier and found a post that stated that BR possible has been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome.

Some of Burke's remarks, observations and point of views remind me of my grandson who has Aspergers and I posted about the "pragmatic speech" that is common. Many times they come off as selfish, cold and uncaring and only focused on themselves.

They also have poor impulse controls and are easily frustrated.

They tend to have a short fuse at times. I wonder if he had any testing done. Or if any teachers had mentioned anything to Pasty?

Atusim in 1997 was much different than it was thought of today.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: BR being under the age of 10 at the time of the murder, thereby under the legal age for his to be held criminally responsible..

He could have been charged with a juvenile delinquent act even though it was a felony and could have been remanded to juvenile facilities until maturation at which time he could face the criminal felony charge(ie. murder in this case)..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Chrishope]

Re: BR being under the age of 10 at the time of the murder, thereby under the legal age for his to be held criminally responsible..

He could have been charged with a juvenile delinquent act even though it was a felony and could have been remanded to juvenile facilities until maturation at which time he could face the criminal felony charge(ie. murder in this case)..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Could you cite the statute? I don't believe this is correct.

 

[Whaleshark]

Some of Burke's remarks, observations and point of views remind me of my grandson who has Aspergers and I posted about the "pragmatic speech" that is common. Many times they come off as selfish, cold and uncaring and only focused on themselves.

They also have poor impulse controls and are easily frustrated.

They tend to have a short fuse at times. I wonder if he had any testing done. Or if any teachers had mentioned anything to Pasty?

Atusim in 1997 was much different than it was thought of today.

It also doesn't have to just be Aspergers or nothing.

There are other behavior issues to consider as well - emotional disturbance disorders....anger, violence, depression, etc....especially if you have someone like Patsy as a parent who already has some mental and emotional things going on and the family dynamics between them....

Whether or not you want to get into the philosophy of labels and if certain disorders are real or not, symptoms of them surely are... There are numerous considerations: Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD), Attention Deficity HyperActivity Disorder (ADHD), Conduct Disorder (CD) - leads to Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, ie Emotional Dysfunction Disorder (BPD - EDD); BiPolar Disorder, also Anger, Anxiety, Jealousy, sibling rivalry, Depression, his own possible abuse, and his own personality and experiences in life that shape his personality and behaviors...

So, even if he may not have had Aspergers... could possibly be something else....

 

[redheadedgal]

He could have been charged with a juvenile delinquent act even though it was a felony and could have been remanded to juvenile facilities until maturation at which time he could face the criminal felony charge(ie. murder in this case)..

no-- you are incorrect:

http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~haralds/juvenilejustice.html

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-geraldo911tape-transcript.htm

 

[UKGuy]

I am now convinced of prior sexual abuse but still not convinced that burke did any of it. I'd have to hear of reports from other former playmates and the comments jonbenet made to others, which have not been discussed yet. I've always thought that something happened to her the day of or just before the christmas party though.

txsvicki,
Well if there were prior acute sexual abuse, and this was mainly digital in nature, who do you reckon was to blame?

If it was Patsy, do you think John and Burke would cover for her?


.

 

[otg]

txsvicki,
Well if there were prior acute sexual abuse, and this was mainly digital in nature, who do you reckon was to blame?

If it was Patsy, do you think John and Burke would cover for her?


.

Medically speaking, "prior acute" would be an oxymoron. If something is acute, it is the opposite of chronic. From Wikipedia:

In medicine, an acute disease is a disease with either or both of:

1. a rapid onset, as in acute infection
2. a short course (as opposed to a chronic course).

This adjective is part of the definition of several diseases and is, therefore, incorporated in their name, for instance, severe acute respiratory syndrome, acute leukemia.
The term acute may often be confused by the general public to mean 'severe'. This however, is a different characteristic and something can be acute but not severe.
Acute hospitals are those intended for short-term medical and/or surgical treatment and care. The related medical speciality is called acute medicine.
Subacute is defined as between acute and chronic, for example subacute fever symptoms or subacute endocarditis. An example is subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, a rare brain disease characterized by diminished intellectual function and loss of nervous function.
Chronic is the opposite of acute - meaning a long term condition, for example chronic bronchitis. Chronic may also be confused by the general public to mean severe. Once again, this is a different definition medically and something can be chronic but not severe.

A chronic condition is a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects.[1] The term chronic is usually applied when the course of the disease lasts for more than three months.[1] Common chronic diseases include arthritis, asthma, cancer, COPD, diabetes and HIV/AIDS, Back Pain.
In medicine, the opposite of chronic is acute. A chronic course is further distinguished from a recurrent course; recurrent diseases relapse repeatedly, with periods of remission in between.
The non-communicable diseases are also usually lasting medical conditions but are separated by their non-infectious causes. In contrast, some chronic diseases, such as HIV/AIDS, are caused by transmissible infections.

Dr. Meyer correctly noted the difference between acute injuries and chronic. There were injuries that were inflicted just before her death, but there were also separate injuries that had occurred an indeterminable amount of time in the past.
.

 

[txsvicki]

There is a discrepancy in accounts of how long the visits were at homes when they were deliveri ng gifts. John says patsy visited a few minutes but i believe she says she stayed chatting 10-15 minutes as if it were nothing. I thought how self absorbed to leave a tired family out in the car in the cold with such an early trip the next morni.g.

 

[dodie20]

Well there is Nathan Inouye: http://www.webbsleuths.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=203&forum=DCForumID61
The last post by the APAC at U of C in April 1997 was by "K.J.L.B Groups".
The university age group fits with someone who watched and was immersed in kidnap crime movies.

And there is this:
http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3622&Itemid=0

And isn't this odd:
When the Ramseys moved into the Boulder home of friends Glen and Susan Stine, one tabloid publication convinced neighbors who disliked the Stines to allow reporters to use their house as a base of operations. A video camera was set up in a front window, taping the unwitting Ramseys as they came and went.

National Enquirer reporters grabbed the Stines' trash, gleaning scraps of information on the Ramseys such as the name of their psychiatrist, the kinds of anti-depressants they'd been prescribed, and other leads about their activities.

One day in February 1997, the Stines struck back at the press when Globe reporter Ken Harrell tried a more direct approach. Instead of parking up the street like other reporters, he walked straight up, knocked on the Stines front door and asked to speak with the Ramseys. Susan Stine, who is sometimes called "Patsy's pit bull," opened the door a crack and asked to see his identification. As Harrell held up his wallet to show her his ID, Mrs. Stine grabbed it and slammed the door in his face. She then called the police to report a "stalker" at the front door. Officers arrived to find Harrell agitated to a degree that he indeed bore some resemblance to a crazed stalker. They put him on the ground and handcuffed him, before they realized how Mrs. Stine had contrived the situation.

John Ramsey, who was in the house when the incident occurred, later laughed about how Mrs. Stine handled the Globe reporter. At an employee meeting at the offices of his company, Access Graphics, Ramsey brought up the episode as an example of how to deal with the news media. Diane Hallis, who worked at Access Graphics, recalls that John Ramsey would look out the third floor windows of the offices trying to spot reporters. "He hated them," she says. "His anger was directed toward the media, but never toward the killer. He never mentioned the killer."

And both the Stines worked at the University of Colorado when they up and moved to Atlanta to be with the Ramsey's. Sounds rather odd to me.

It's also kind of odd that JR expected his employees to follow Mrs. S's example, but he and PR evidently didn't follow the same rules. PR even hugged a NE reporter, and presented him with cookies. I wonder what the S's and JR's employees thought about the different standards. MOO

 

[dodie20]

IN THE MATTER OF:
4
5
6 INTERVIEW WITH JOHN RAMSEY
7
8 _________________________________________________
9
10
11 TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW
12
13 VOLUME 1 OF 4
14 PAGES 1 - 246
15
16
17
18
19 JUNE 23RD, 1998
What time then did you leave the
25 White's party?
0105
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think we left at about between
2 8:30 and 9:00. Because I remember trying to get
3 Burke into bed at a reasonable hour when we went
4 home.
5 LOU SMIT: How far is the Whites from where
6 you live? I know that there is that little time
7 period in there?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well we went from the Whites
9 to the Walkers to drop off a gift.
10 LOU SMIT: Were they labeled in this diagram?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. (INAUDIBLE).
12 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) would the drive have
13 been from the Whites there?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, six minutes, five minutes.
15 It's not really far.
16 LOU SMIT: Okay.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably even less. I think
18 the kids and I stayed in the car and Patsy went
19 out to the door. It didn't take very long. Ten
20 minutes maybe.
21 LOU SMIT: Now this may not seem important
22 or anything, the dynamics of things back at that
23 time. You leave the Whites, the children are going
24 to get in the car. Is JonBenet walking with
25 anybody? I mean, describe like how they get in and
0106
1 where they go or whatever?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I don't remember
3 specifically getting in. But I know she was, I
4 mean, it's always a challenge to get them rounded
5 up and with all her toys and get them detached
6 from what they're doing and haul them away.
7 Getting thing out to the car and off we went.
8 LOU SMIT: Any particular seat arrangement?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well JonBenet sat behind me,
10 as the driver. Burke sat to her on the other side
11 of the backseat. Patsy was in the passenger seat
12 in the front.
13 LOU SMIT: Do you remember how JonBenet was
14 dressed?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: She had on a little top with a
16 silver star on it and a black pair of pants I
17 don't remember if she had color -- she probably
18 did. I don't remember what color it was.
19 LOU SMIT: How about Patsy? How was she
20 dressed?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: You know I don't remember other
22 than I've looked at pictures of their party and
23 that's my memory. But I couldn't have told you
24 without looking at the pictures.
25 LOU SMIT: And what did the pictures show?
0107
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think in the pictures she
2 had
3 like a red Christmas sweater on.
4 LOU SMIT: These pictures that you have of
5 the party, are these pictures that the police got
6 or were these extra pictures?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I think they are the ones
8 that the police got. I think they were taken at
9 the White's. I don't think we took any pictures.
10 LOU SMIT: Okay. Did anybody take any pictures
11 that you know that were at the party?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not that I remember.[/COLOR][/COLOR]13 LOU SMIT: Okay. So you drive to the Walkers,
14 that's the first one. And you were driving, do you
15 remember what the road or weather conditions were
16 like that night?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe there was no weather
18 because I would've have been concerned because I
19 knew we were flying out the next morning. So I
20 know I wasn't aware of any weather. It wasn't
21 snowing. It was dry. I don't think the drive was
22 bad.
23 LOU SMIT: Did you file a flight plan?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Mike would have done it, yeah.
25 LOU SMIT: did you talk about weather or
0108
1 anything?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I always watch the weather
3 channels for the day before we go anywhere just to
4 get a feel for the flow of things. I don't
5 remember that I was particularly concerned about
6 the weather.
7 LOU SMIT: So where did you pull into then
8 at the Walkers?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I think I pulled into the
10 driveway. And it seems like that when Patsy, as I
11 recall, she went in and she stayed a little while
12 like five minutes.
13 LOU SMIT: And she went in to do something?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Just to give the Walkers their
15 gifts.
16 LOU SMIT: Do you know what that gift was?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't at the time. I think
18 it was perfume or something like that. I remember
19 her saying, but I didn't at the time. I thought it
20 was a food (INAUDIBLE) or something like that. And
21 she came back out and we went to the Stines and
22 she had a gift for them.
23 LOU SMIT: Now did you and Burke and JonBenet
24 stay in the car, do you remember?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.
0109
1 LOU SMIT: You stayed in the car at the Walkers?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, the Walkers, yeah. I think we
3 all three stayed in the car.
4 LOU SMIT: And then you go to the Stines?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes.
8 Pulled up out the front of their house. Patsy
9 certainly went in, I don't think I did. I don't
10 remember if Burke did or not. I don't think
11 JonBenet did. But I don't remember for sure.
12 It wouldn't have been unusual for Burke to go in
13 because that was his buddy, Doug.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you have a gift for Doug?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I know Patsy
16 probably, but I don't recall. And then we debated,
17 we had a gift for the Fernies and we debated
18 whether we should go over there. But that's
19 probably 15 minutes away and we wanted to get home
20 and to bed. And we didn't know what time we would
21 get back. So we left the Stines and drove home.
22 LOU SMIT: So your concern then was mainly you
23 didn't want to spend that extra time (INAUDIBLE).
24 Why?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was 15 minutes over
0110
1 there and both the kids might want to go in and it
2 would have been half an hour, 45 minutes before we
3 went home. And we had to get up early next
4 morning. They were tired. They had been up all
5 day. So we said, well, we'd do that when we got
6 back.7 LOU SMIT: So when you leave the Steins,
8 Patsy returns or whatever and that's just a short
9 distance to your house, I imagine. What? Just a
10 couple of minutes? And was Burke asleep at this
11 time (INAUDIBLE)?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: JonBenet, when we pulled into
13 the drive, she was sound asleep because I remember
14 getting her out of the car and she was just out.

**Note: The Stines lived 6 blocks away **JonBenet : Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Page 317: With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25. When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder. He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night. He heard the house creaking during the night, he said, and when he awoke, his mother was turning on the lights and in a rush, saying, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," then his father turned the lights on and off again. Burke stayed in bed wondering if something had happened. He heard his father trying to calm his mother, then telling her to call the police. Burke told the detective he did not get out of bed that morning and that a policeman looked into his room. He recalled thinking that when the police arrived "we would probably be tied up all day" and that he was disappointed the family would not be going to Charlevoix as planned."

I believe JB and BR were awake when they got home. They had a snack together then played doctor. I personally do not see it being far fetched that Burke could had hit JB with a gold club (driver) and have done the damage he did without intention. I was reading earlier and found a post that stated that BR possible has been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome.

Was the mild shock that BR suffered, at the W's party, ever investigated? because what are the odds of both children suffering some kind of shock, (if that's what the marks were on JBR), on the same night? Also, was BR's shock, an accident, with him unknowingly falling into the fence, or did somebody push him, or did he, for some reason, grab the fence? As a kid, I stupidly grabbed an electric fence on a dare, so it's not out out of the question. MOO.

 

[Flatlander]

Was the mild shock that BR suffered, at the W's party, ever investigated? because what are the odds of both children suffering some kind of shock, (if that's what the marks were on JBR), on the same night? Also, was BR's shock, an accident, with him unknowingly falling into the fence, or did somebody push him, or did he, for some reason, grab the fence? As a kid, I stupidly grabbed an electric fence on a dare, so it's not out out of the question. MOO.

Good question but from what I understand at this point in time is that the electical marks found on JB were possibly related to trains in the basement. The closet outside the trainroom had electrical leads from the ceiling, one of which was hot. I could be totally off the mark on this one and admit it openly.

I'm sure somebody here will point us in the correct direction.