Was Caylee a "thrill kill"?

[Mare10]

IMHO, it was absolutely not a trill kill. It was the act of a very immature person. I believe it was an accident, not meant to kill her, but did. She never really wanted the child. She hid it as long as possible from her MOM, who she in some sick way revered. According to CA she told CK it would be OK and it was, really now CA. Don't get me started on the whole adoption issue. Anyway, IMO, she some how killed Caylee and then reacted like a child. LIE< LIE, LIE! And she did! We all know the garbage she spewed, that's besides the point. She never grew up, enough to sleep around, enough to get drunk, yes. I bet a ton of you have kids of similar age and know that is true. But, the end result of her actions proved to be immense, her baby was dead. OK, as a parent, in no way would I ever stand my child with something like this. I think her parents feel equally guilty having pushed her to this decision. OK< don't your panties in a bunch. I, in no way hold her innocent, much the opposite, I hold her totally guilty. She has been given every opportunity to make something of her self. They thought she did, hmm, event planner at Universal, not bad, hum? LIE She needed mental help, did she ask for it NO, did she give indications, no, did she pretend all was well, yes. So, bottom line, CK guilty, GA and CA guilty all YES! Death penalty for all three

 

[eddeva]

Great post ibyounger and it gave me an opportunity to post a thought I've had since June 15-16 became a somewhat target date for Caylee's passing. (Sorry this is tagged on to your quote but I couldn't find any space to type it in.) What if Casey and Caylee were in the backyard, Roy K came by, called out Meter Reader and Casey responded. Roy looks into the back yard, they start talking, they go into the house and a leave Caylee unsupervised in the backyard. Out they come and Roy leaves and that's when Casey begins to look for Caylee. She finds her at the bottom of the pool, retrieves her body, calls her parents several times, but doesn't connect with them, has to take a shower before her meeting with Tony L so she puts Caylee in the trunk to give Casey time to think. Many weeks later, having disposed of Caylee, she decides that Roy has some responsibility in this and calls him (he of course gave her his number in case she ever wanted to call). This would explain why he tried so hard to get someone to "find" the body at the beginning of August. Does this make sense to anyone besides me? I'm not sold on the accident scenario but I've been bothered about Roy K being so adamant (3 calls) but not actually making the officer open the bag. Then, in December, maybe Roy K thinks its to Casey's advantage to have the body found (or maybe he's been feeling guilty for the whole time) so he decides he'll go in, find the body, and MAKE THE POLICE FIND IT TOO! Tell me gently what you think. I love Websleuths and I appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in trying to help find justice for Caylee and to support her in this environment where she seems to have become a commodity to be sold for the benefit of her "family". God bless, and thanks for welcoming everyone. Gograny

i'm purdy sure the anthony house isn't on kronk's route, so there's no reason he would ever have been there, but let's say for argument's sake that he got lost and went to casey's place - in your scenario roy leaves before casey notices caylee is missing so he wouldn't even know if he had been there when she supposedly died or not, he may not remember the visit at all, how would casey track down a perfect stranger? (i don't understand why you think he left his number unless you're saying they went inside to hop on the good foot and do the bad thing, in which case i still don't see why he'd leave his number) why would she think he would help her? what would she say? 'hi mr kronk, it's taken me ages to find you. i'm casey anthony you've probably seen me on TV b/c everybody thinks i murdered my baby. well i didn't, and i'm sure you'll have noticed from all the media coverage that i'm a very honest, trustworthy person so you can be sure that what i'm about to tell you must be the truth even if it sounds like i'm doin' it for a dare. do you remember the day you came over to my house? well i think while i was talking to you caylee tragically, accidentally drowned herself w/ absolutely no help from me, nuh uh, no siree, so in my opinion your partly to blame. anyhoo i chose not to call 911, just a personal foible, triple bagged her and threw the body into that dump site where the swamp is round the corner from my house, as you do when your baby tragically, accidentally drowns and you're totally innocent w/ nothing to hide. well i was thinking that it would help my defence no end if the body was found now and as i'm sure you're aware that you're partly responsible, even though i can't possibly prove this and you've no reason whatsoever to believe it, it's only fair that you help me out and go find the bag. i'm not asking you to make a special trip. the next time you happen to be passing will do. thanks a bunch.
would you feel guilty, go find the body and call the cops? ..... or would you think she was out of her tree, check that you hadn't slipped into an alternate dimension where everything was upside down :spinner: and the easter bunny was worshipped as a god :bowdown: get a loan so you could afford a bodyguard, leave the state ... and call the cops?

it's entirely possible that i'm missing what you're getting at but i just don't see it happening this way.
personally, i kinda feel sorry for kronk, but tbh i feel sorry for tony and jesse and well almost everyone involved in this, anyway it's good to have you on board

 

[carrie]

IMHO, it was absolutely not a trill kill. It was the act of a very immature person. I believe it was an accident, not meant to kill her, but did. She never really wanted the child. She hid it as long as possible from her MOM, who she in some sick way revered. According to CA she told CK it would be OK and it was, really now CA. Don't get me started on the whole adoption issue. Anyway, IMO, she some how killed Caylee and then reacted like a child. LIE< LIE, LIE! And she did! We all know the garbage she spewed, that's besides the point. She never grew up, enough to sleep around, enough to get drunk, yes. I bet a ton of you have kids of similar age and know that is true. But, the end result of her actions proved to be immense, her baby was dead. OK, as a parent, in no way would I ever stand my child with something like this. I think her parents feel equally guilty having pushed her to this decision. OK< don't your panties in a bunch. I, in no way hold her innocent, much the opposite, I hold her totally guilty. She has been given every opportunity to make something of her self. They thought she did, hmm, event planner at Universal, not bad, hum? LIE She needed mental help, did she ask for it NO, did she give indications, no, did she pretend all was well, yes. So, bottom line, CK guilty, GA and CA guilty all YES! Death penalty for all three

Are you seriously suggesting George and Cindy deserve the DP!!?? Because they raised an irresponsible child? Come on. Even if they are guilty, as many believe, of obstructing the investigation or covering up things, that hardly warrants the DP. :waitasec:

 

[Mare10]

Are you seriously suggesting George and Cindy deserve the DP!!?? Because they raised an irresponsible child? Come on. Even if they are guilty, as many believe, of obstructing the investigation or covering up things, that hardly warrants the DP. :waitasec:

No, not the DP literally. But if KC is found guilty and does get the DP, it will be Death to the Family image which seems to be the most important thing in life to them. They did more than raise an irresponsible child, they enabled all of it. The lies to cover her actions, looking the other way in situations that were very clear to others. Lastly, knowing she had issues and not getting her the proper help that she needed. If it was true that KC wanted to put her baby up for adoption, then maybe they should have done that. I'm adopted and IMO adoption is a wonderful thing and I thank my parents every day. Instead, they decided that it would all be OK and according to CA it was. Well, obviously it wasn't . IMO, CA and GA know what they have done but instead of facing that head on, they are blaming every one but themselves. They had everything to do with where they are today. So again, I don't think she did this for a trill but when it did happen she just wanted to get on with her own life with no remorse but with what seems like happiness. Her parents turned their heads, as usual, and in the end pointing fingers everywhere but home. They are all guilty IMO. This is all so sad.

 

[gogranny]

i'm purdy sure the anthony house isn't on kronk's route, so there's no reason he would ever have been there, but let's say for argument's sake that he got lost and went to casey's place - in your scenario roy leaves before casey notices caylee is missing so he wouldn't even know if he had been there when she supposedly died or not, he may not remember the visit at all, how would casey track down a perfect stranger? (i don't understand why you think he left his number unless you're saying they went inside to hop on the good foot and do the bad thing, in which case i still don't see why he'd leave his number) why would she think he would help her? what would she say? 'hi mr kronk, it's taken me ages to find you. i'm casey anthony you've probably seen me on TV b/c everybody thinks i murdered my baby. well i didn't, and i'm sure you'll have noticed from all the media coverage that i'm a very honest, trustworthy person so you can be sure that what i'm about to tell you must be the truth even if it sounds like i'm doin' it for a dare. do you remember the day you came over to my house? well i think while i was talking to you caylee tragically, accidentally drowned herself w/ absolutely no help from me, nuh uh, no siree, so in my opinion your partly to blame. anyhoo i chose not to call 911, just a personal foible, triple bagged her and threw the body into that dump site where the swamp is round the corner from my house, as you do when your baby tragically, accidentally drowns and you're totally innocent w/ nothing to hide. well i was thinking that it would help my defence no end if the body was found now and as i'm sure you're aware that you're partly responsible, even though i can't possibly prove this and you've no reason whatsoever to believe it, it's only fair that you help me out and go find the bag. i'm not asking you to make a special trip. the next time you happen to be passing will do. thanks a bunch.
would you feel guilty, go find the body and call the cops? ..... or would you think she was out of her tree, check that you hadn't slipped into an alternate dimension where everything was upside down :spinner: and the easter bunny was worshipped as a god :bowdown: get a loan so you could afford a bodyguard, leave the state ... and call the cops?

it's entirely possible that i'm missing what you're getting at but i just don't see it happening this way.
personally, i kinda feel sorry for kronk, but tbh i feel sorry for tony and jesse and well almost everyone involved in this, anyway it's good to have you on board

Hi eddeva, and thanks for your very detailed response. You gave me exactly what I was looking for, better perspective. The thing that I can't let go of is Roy K's determination in August that the police explore the site. Thanks, again, Gograny

 

[Clock's Tickin]

Had I lived in that area, I would've been "determined" to explore the sight as well. I give Roy K. kudos for being somewhat persistant, obviously it takes that AND MORE to get the job done. He was suspicious enough to follow up, unfortunately nobody that he followed up with was interested in his suspicion.

 

[ibyoungr]

Great post ibyounger and it gave me an opportunity to post a thought I've had since June 15-16 became a somewhat target date for Caylee's passing. (Sorry this is tagged on to your quote but I couldn't find any space to type it in.) What if Casey and Caylee were in the backyard, Roy K came by, called out Meter Reader and Casey responded. Roy looks into the back yard, they start talking, they go into the house and a leave Caylee unsupervised in the backyard. Out they come and Roy leaves and that's when Casey begins to look for Caylee. She finds her at the bottom of the pool, retrieves her body, calls her parents several times, but doesn't connect with them, has to take a shower before her meeting with Tony L so she puts Caylee in the trunk to give Casey time to think. Many weeks later, having disposed of Caylee, she decides that Roy has some responsibility in this and calls him (he of course gave her his number in case she ever wanted to call). This would explain why he tried so hard to get someone to "find" the body at the beginning of August. Does this make sense to anyone besides me? I'm not sold on the accident scenario but I've been bothered about Roy K being so adamant (3 calls) but not actually making the officer open the bag. Then, in December, maybe Roy K thinks its to Casey's advantage to have the body found (or maybe he's been feeling guilty for the whole time) so he decides he'll go in, find the body, and MAKE THE POLICE FIND IT TOO! Tell me gently what you think. I love Websleuths and I appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in trying to help find justice for Caylee and to support her in this environment where she seems to have become a commodity to be sold for the benefit of her "family". God bless, and thanks for welcoming everyone. Gograny

Nah, Roy is just a nice guy. He would have reported Casey straight to LE if he saw something like that.

If I was him I would have kept calling to.

A couple of Websleuthers pointed that exact area that Caylee was found way back in Oct (?).... Maybe Kronk visits this website and since he was assigned to the area, he took a look and saw something. LE has shown in this last doc dump that Cain was not doing his job and fired him for it. I thank God for Kronk's fortitude.

 

[ibyoungr]

Are you seriously suggesting George and Cindy deserve the DP!!?? Because they raised an irresponsible child? Come on. Even if they are guilty, as many believe, of obstructing the investigation or covering up things, that hardly warrants the DP. :waitasec:

ITA, If we get DP for bad parenting there would be a lot of killing going on.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

The problem is that when searches came and went with the weather, EVERYONE was told (and media broadcasted) that if you see something "DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING"---call LE and report what you see. After months went by, Mr. K finally worked up the nerve to touch what he saw. Without that, we would still have no Caylee. Had he touched what he saw from the start-he may have damaged some forensic evidence, but one has to wonder what valuable information could have been discovered from an earlier discovery. Cases like this one really make your head spin. I know, we are getting way off topic, but I just had to add that.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

IMHO, it was absolutely not a trill kill. It was the act of a very immature person. I believe it was an accident, not meant to kill her, but did. She never really wanted the child. She hid it as long as possible from her MOM, who she in some sick way revered. According to CA she told CK it would be OK and it was, really now CA. Don't get me started on the whole adoption issue. Anyway, IMO, she some how killed Caylee and then reacted like a child. LIE< LIE, LIE! And she did! We all know the garbage she spewed, that's besides the point. She never grew up, enough to sleep around, enough to get drunk, yes. I bet a ton of you have kids of similar age and know that is true. But, the end result of her actions proved to be immense, her baby was dead. OK, as a parent, in no way would I ever stand my child with something like this. I think her parents feel equally guilty having pushed her to this decision. OK< don't your panties in a bunch. I, in no way hold her innocent, much the opposite, I hold her totally guilty. She has been given every opportunity to make something of her self. They thought she did, hmm, event planner at Universal, not bad, hum? LIE She needed mental help, did she ask for it NO, did she give indications, no, did she pretend all was well, yes. So, bottom line, CK guilty, GA and CA guilty all YES! Death penalty for all three

Actually, she did ask for help. CA was in therapy and KC was telling friends she was on the verge of a breakdown a while ago. I wonder about the depth of her friendships, when nobody helps her in her time of need.

 

[Chiquita71]

Wow, thanks for that information. So all the time that Caylee was with Casey and she was at TL, he claimed that he did not see Caylee. He stated that she did not spend the night at his place with Caylee. Other times that CA claimed that KC was "crashing at Zanni's", I presume that Caylee was actually with CA and she was not telling the truth to LE.

(Snip respect debbie)

I see what you are saying and I was thinking just what you were but then it comes in my mind like this: (please correct if I am incorrect)


The time frame where TL is saying that Caylee never spent the night/CA is claiming that Casey/Caylee were "crashing" at "Zanni's"/(I'll add this in: none of Casey's old friends or new friends report in statements to LE of seeing Caylee is- AFTER June16th.(?)

So, the "fight" timeline makes sense and TL saying Caylee did not spend the night plus Cindy stating on July3rd that Caylee was "missing." This was all after June16th so TL and Cindy are stating what we know, Caylee had passed away but TL probably heard she was with Cindy/Nanny and Cindy by her statement had heard that Caylee was with "Zanny/the Nanny/Casey" but not her(Cindy.)


...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

 

[ibyoungr]

(Snip respect debbie)

I see what you are saying and I was thinking just what you were but then it comes in my mind like this: (please correct if I am incorrect)


The time frame where TL is saying that Caylee never spent the night/CA is claiming that Casey/Caylee were "crashing" at "Zanni's"/(I'll add this in: none of Casey's old friends or new friends report in statements to LE of seeing Caylee is- AFTER June16th.(?)

So, the "fight" timeline makes sense and TL saying Caylee did not spend the night plus Cindy stating on July3rd that Caylee was "missing." This was all after June16th so TL and Cindy are stating what we know, Caylee had passed away but TL probably heard she was with Cindy/Nanny and Cindy by her statement had heard that Caylee was with "Zanny/the Nanny/Casey" but not her(Cindy.)


...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

Correct.... Cindy and Tony think Caylee is with a nanny. She wasn't, she was already gone from this world.

During the timeline, Caylee was either with Casey or Cindy and possibly George.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Hi eddeva, and thanks for your very detailed response. You gave me exactly what I was looking for, better perspective. The thing that I can't let go of is Roy K's determination in August that the police explore the site. Thanks, again, Gograny

I think his determination has to do with the fact that he did inspect the bag in August. He knew exactly what was in there and he was scared to death. He wanted someone else to officially find the baby.

In a case like this the simplest answer is probably correct. No conspiracy, even of two individuals. It was just evil Mommy.

 

[akashana]

I just have trouble with the thrill kill idea, as I don't think it jibes with KC's personality. Spiteful biotch yes, but a gleeful killer a la Karla Tucker with the pickaxe, not so much. I think KC was careful to compartmentalize her life to great degrees so people (both real and imagined) and stories had less chance to overlap. In a certain sense we all have compartments in our lives, e.g., work friends, childood friends, workout friends, etc., but unless we're all big liars, it matters not when somebody we do yoga with happens to meet one of our co-workers. For somebody like KC, who told her friends and parents that she worked at first at Sports Authority, then at Universal, it could mean her house of cards came tumbling down. And I think Caylee was getting more and more verbal and less compliant every day. There had probably already been slip-ups that had been puzzling, yet discounted. The burden of motherhood was getting heavier by the day, and her petty crimes were being discovered (the thefts). People were getting tired of the bs she was spouting and beginning to call her out on her lies. I'm not sure exactly what transpired that led up to Caylee's murder, but I tend to believe it wasn't an accident. But the only thrill, if you will, that I think KC felt was relief.

 

[akashana]

Actually, she did ask for help. CA was in therapy and KC was telling friends she was on the verge of a breakdown a while ago. I wonder about the depth of her friendships, when nobody helps her in her time of need.

I've thought about that, too. I know that if I am down and depressed, I have good friends who would move heaven and earth to cheer me up or get me the help that I need to get through my depression. I am very blessed to have true, loving friends. But I think that mainly what social butterfly KC had was a large circle of acquaintances who viewed her as just another party girl. I'm not saying everybody did, but most.

For the record, I think that Amy was a good and true friend to her and probably also Annie. But I think that those two were also overwhelmed with their own issues and problems and weren't equipped to deal with the breadth and scope of KC's personality disorder. For that matter, I'm not sure there are many psychiatrists who can really cope with a cold-blooded baby killer who hasn't been seen yet grieving over her daughter.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't see it as a "thrill kill" because that would imply that Casey did it for the excitement.

I believe she is just a sociopath without a conscience, which is why she lies constantly and has no real motherly affection. People like that don't kill for the thrill of it, they kill because they treat people like objects to be thrown away.

She may have felt some satisfaction at pulling it off, and she was certainly smug enough to keep lying and lying even after the cops got involved. But I don't see her as someone capable of having a thrill. However, I think she felt she was smarter than everyone else - sort of a mastermind about Caylee's death - and that she could get away with it. It's like ego to the tenth power, and a type of arrogance that all sociopaths have. But no, I don't think it was a thrill to kill her daughter.

 

[seagull65]

I was watching NG last night and after Dr. Marshall explained all the dark pictures and sayings on KC's computer it dawned on me that she may have killed Caylee just for the thrill of it. She had a perverted interested in the morbid aspect of death and torture and who is much easier to practice on than a 2 year old. At first I thought that she killed to be free and to be with TonE but she made it clear that she would not move to NYC for him. So, why would she kill for him?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks for the thread. I agree about there being little evidence to indicate that KC would kill Caylee to be with TonE. As you said, she even mentioned to a friend she wouldn't want to move to NY with him, etc. No history of her endangering Caylee in order to be with any of her boyfriends or friends in the past, or harming or endangering Caylee period. Caylee was apparently healthy and happy and well cared for right up until the disappearance.
It's very true about the dark/morbid nature of many of the icons on her photobucket, but sadly, if you peruse myspace/facebook/photobucket you see exactly the same kind of material on the pages of many, even the majority of people in KC's age group. The interest in horror images, decomposition, etc. I don't get it personally and think it's a shame, but it seems to be pervasive on the webpages of many young people of this age group right now.

Many of the webpages of other people linked on KC's facebook etc were creepier/scarier than KC's. I remember discussion of some of these people's pages early on in the case, but I don't know where those threads are now. The same with some of the little films made by a few of KC's roommates and their friends, which you can find on youtube. I do think it's possible Caylee could have been murdered as a thrill kill, not necessarily by KC.

 

[seagull65]

Great post ibyounger and it gave me an opportunity to post a thought I've had since June 15-16 became a somewhat target date for Caylee's passing. (Sorry this is tagged on to your quote but I couldn't find any space to type it in.) What if Casey and Caylee were in the backyard, Roy K came by, called out Meter Reader and Casey responded. Roy looks into the back yard, they start talking, they go into the house and a leave Caylee unsupervised in the backyard. Out they come and Roy leaves and that's when Casey begins to look for Caylee. She finds her at the bottom of the pool, retrieves her body, calls her parents several times, but doesn't connect with them, has to take a shower before her meeting with Tony L so she puts Caylee in the trunk to give Casey time to think. Many weeks later, having disposed of Caylee, she decides that Roy has some responsibility in this and calls him (he of course gave her his number in case she ever wanted to call). This would explain why he tried so hard to get someone to "find" the body at the beginning of August. Does this make sense to anyone besides me? I'm not sold on the accident scenario but I've been bothered about Roy K being so adamant (3 calls) but not actually making the officer open the bag. Then, in December, maybe Roy K thinks its to Casey's advantage to have the body found (or maybe he's been feeling guilty for the whole time) so he decides he'll go in, find the body, and MAKE THE POLICE FIND IT TOO! Tell me gently what you think. I love Websleuths and I appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in trying to help find justice for Caylee and to support her in this environment where she seems to have become a commodity to be sold for the benefit of her "family". God bless, and thanks for welcoming everyone. Gograny

love the way you think outside of the box, Gogranny. I always wondered about the meter reader possibilities, too, since a MR obviously could be there in the neighborhood, even enter the back yard when Caylee was playing back there in her playhouse or whatever, (potentially without KC knowing it, though your scenario above is interesting and I never thought of it quite that way.) No accusation toward the MR, but if I were LE I sure would have investigated the MR(s) as intensively as I did KC herself, after becoming aware of them, Mr. K calling in the find of the remains, etc, etc. Just as a matter of routine investigation. MOO (Likewise with the other guy KW who was seen in and around the woods there on Suburban, even carrying a shovel that one time. Likewise with neighbor BB, etc. But that's just me.)

 

[seagull65]

Just wanted to say I appreciate the insightful posts I've read here. Too many to put "thanks" on every one.

 

[5stars]

Thrill! She was sick of MOM controlling .DAD investegating her.Her friends are college grads.Where is she at? Who is to blame? With a child .No future with her lies.Get more college students?