Was Joe involved?

[Maryann123]

I would never let anybody hurt my kids. If anything, I'm OCD about it. But I do know from experience, that even family members who hate each other, don't squeal, when it's molestation against a child. & the kids learn from an early age to keep that stuff a secret. It's an off limits subject. I can't help myself, but I believe a lot of Misty's story. I can see a scared teen hiding under the covers, & just wanting everything to stop. She did say that 3 or 4 men were there, so who knows what really happened. But the neighbor who heard a woman's scream, & then saw her crying on the phone, makes me think that Misty didn't have much to do with this. I think she could've been overpowered, threatened, & made to stay out of it. Tommy could've known from experience, that Misty was easy to keep quiet. & that's assuming that there's any truth to the Joe story. but with Tommy throwing out details, right & left, there's gotta be something to it.

Dodie, I don't see Misty as being afraid of Tommy or Joe. Because of the lack of age difference between she and Joe, the molestation never happened in my mind. She specifically said she was 5 or 6 years old when it happened. She went back and lived with Lindsy and Tommy after Ron kicked her out. (she had to have the restraining order dropped in order to do this) I will never believe Tommy assaulted her, and that she feels safe going to live with him. She had other friends! And then she goes to the same town as Joe and spends a few days or a few weeks. My goodness, you are under the covers praying for your life one day, and then you take up residence just a few miles from the perp? And, in your grandmother's house no less, and the perp has the same grandmother. This story stinks to high heaven!

 

[gngr~snap]

I don't know what it's called, but the part of the "gun" that goes around the trigger finger, (in the uzi picture) is way bigger than the part around JO's finger in his picture. That is unless JO has some very, very fat fingers.

Another thought from my DH and DS is that it is an Uzi water gun and the pic has been photo shopped to remove the orange tip and make it appear metal... I could believe that as well. Which might explain the discreapancy you pointed out.

 

[TrialAddict]

Another thought from my DH and DS is that it is an Uzi water gun and the pic has been photo shopped to remove the orange tip and make it appear metal... I could believe that as well. Which might explain the discreapancy you pointed out.

I was thinking it was probably photo shopped too and why is the sheet, pillow case or whatever it is wrapped around his arm?

 

[Quiche]

Another thought from my DH and DS is that it is an Uzi water gun and the pic has been photo shopped to remove the orange tip and make it appear metal... I could believe that as well. Which might explain the discreapancy you pointed out.

I really wondered if it was a toy. :waitasec: But nonetheless, a real , who sports real weaponry, is not likely to post a stoopid vanity pic on a public website. That's jmo.

For instance, lol, we haven't seen a pic of the gun shoving, waving, collecting, RC posing with one of his weapons.

 

[Kat]

I haven't looked into this but when I first saw the picture of what appeared to be a gun in Joe's hand on the msypace pic was a crude zip gun. I don't know. Just a thought.

 

[dodie20]

Dodie, I don't see Misty as being afraid of Tommy or Joe. Because of the lack of age difference between she and Joe, the molestation never happened in my mind. She specifically said she was 5 or 6 years old when it happened. She went back and lived with Lindsy and Tommy after Ron kicked her out. (she had to have the restraining order dropped in order to do this) I will never believe Tommy assaulted her, and that she feels safe going to live with him. She had other friends! And then she goes to the same town as Joe and spends a few days or a few weeks. My goodness, you are under the covers praying for your life one day, and then you take up residence just a few miles from the perp? And, in your grandmother's house no less, and the perp has the same grandmother. This story stinks to high heaven!

This is hard to explain, but I think Misty disconnects from anything negative. I think she puts it out of her head & lives in la la land. & I can understand her moving in with Tommy. That night, she was supposedly in her room, hiding under the covers, so in her mind, she didn't know what happened to Haleigh. She didn't see it, with her own 2 eyes, so it could've been anything-including a stranger abduction...so, even though she really did know, she could pretend that she didn't. & although she didn't like or trust Tommy, that was par for the course, because she had never liked or trusted him. & since he was her bro, & she'd always had contact with him, keeping contact wouldn't have felt abnormal. Also, if her story of 3 or 4 men is true, she might not have been scared of Tommy, by himself.

 

[lynnb]

My biggest problem with the Joe story...
Supposedly Joe got "irate" when the gun he wanted to borrow to go illegally deer hunting wasn't there. But supposedly Joe did have access to another weapon to supposedly "put to Tommy's head" while Tommy disposed of a body. If Joe was going to go illegally deer hunting, he wouldn't have cared what weapon he used. Why not use the "weapon" he threatened Tommy with? I don't think the other weapon would have been a knife. Pretty hard to continually threaten someone with a knife as they move a dead body and transport it. You'd have to stay within a few inches of your victim at all times. IMO

 

[dodie20]

My biggest problem with the Joe story...
Supposedly Joe got "irate" when the gun he wanted to borrow to go illegally deer hunting wasn't there. But supposedly Joe did have access to another weapon to supposedly "put to Tommy's head" while Tommy disposed of a body. If Joe was going to go illegally deer hunting, he wouldn't have cared what weapon he used. Why not use the "weapon" he threatened Tommy with? I don't think the other weapon would have been a knife. Pretty hard to continually threaten someone with a knife as they move a dead body and transport it. You'd have to stay within a few inches of your victim at all times. IMO

Tommy's story is obviously self serving crud. It takes out the gun theft, the rape, (if there was one), & the murder at the river. According to Tommy, he was just an innocent, law abiding bystander to all of this. & defenseless. At that time, Tommy was a much bigger guy, & Joe would've been scared of him.

 

[gngr~snap]

AND Ron emphatically stating JO wasn't there.... What was up with that? bout the ONLY way Ron would know where JO was or wasn't is only if JO was with him while he was at WERK! ~or where ever he was that night... makes me think JO and RC were in cahoots.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I don't know what it's called, but the part of the "gun" that goes around the trigger finger, (in the uzi picture) is way bigger than the part around JO's finger in his picture. That is unless JO has some very, very fat fingers.

You gotta love some of the conversations you find yourself in here at WS. I know 100% of NOTHING about an Uzi, but I can see pretty darn well. Look at this pic from MySpace and watch the video, LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM21B3LFDFI&feature=related

I'm not totally sure of what the video says except 2 words...."M I C R O - U Z I", LOL! IMO, Joe is holding something other than an Uzi.

 

[gngr~snap]

Here ya go gngr~snap:

Pic from gngr~snaps link

I think this Uzi is without the safety on it...
or one may be semi automatic?? IDK

 

[gngr~snap]

Now that I think about it an 8 yr old boy was killed at a gun show by an Uzi when he picked it up...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/

maybe Haleigh shot herself? Ron put his fist through the wall where the bullet hole was? I thing LE need to tear up the wall that Ronnie put his fist through and look for/find a bullet that matches the caliber of this weapon!

 

[Cowdaddy]

Another thought from my DH and DS is that it is an Uzi water gun and the pic has been photo shopped to remove the orange tip and make it appear metal... I could believe that as well. Which might explain the discreapancy you pointed out.

Photoshopped or not, that's gun metal in that picture. I looked at the link that you or somebody posted, and I could see it a lot better in that picture. Clearly a gun.

A whole lot of people who play with such guns are punks like Ron. Ron had some kind of an assault rifle, but junkies don't generally hold on to those things because junkies run short of money, like Ron did. Also, as far as Ron's rap sheet--isn't it all drug related?

I heard (or misheard) Granny Hollars say Joe went to reform school for stealing a car. I don't know how old he was when this happened, but I suspect this was not a crime to get money for drugs, but a purely criminal act. And that makes me wonder about Joe, because there's generally a difference between addicts who steal to support a habit and criminals who just steal. If the addict weren't an addict, he wouldn't be stealing. The pure criminal has no excuse.

The reason drug court works is because when you remove the drug, the addict no longer engages in criminal behavior. It is not so easy to remove the motivation from a criminal sociopath.

Regarding Joe's going to reform school: They don't generally send kids to reform school on the first offense.

 

[gngr~snap]

Cowdaddy~

You can remove the drug from a druggie but not the crime from a criminal!

You coined a new phrase!!!

 

[Emeralgem]

I readily admit I do not know anything about guns...Also, I do not know if cousin Jo helped out that night, or what his part is in this whole case, but I'm absolutely certain he didn't kill Haleigh..NG even stated on her show last night Jo went into the bedroom and saw Haleigh was deceased..That statement doesn't indicate to me that he murdered Haleigh...
And IIRC when asked about the gun, Jo's attorney stated he could not discuss the gun because it was part of the investigation,so I maintain my stance concerning Haleigh being shot...JMO

 

[gngr~snap]

I readily admit I do not know anything about guns...Also, I do not know if cousin Jo helped out that night, or what his part is in this whole case, but I'm absolutely certain he didn't kill Haleigh..NG even stated on her show last night Jo went into the bedroom and saw Haleigh was deceased..That statement doesn't indicate to me that he murdered Haleigh...
And IIRC when asked about the gun, Jo's attorney stated he could not discuss the gun because it was part of the investigation,so I maintain my stance concerning Haleigh being shot...JMO

Could the gun have been what was thrown in Shell Harbor and it was the gun that was retrieved? Do ya think?

If Haleigh had shot herself or got shot seems like LE would have found traces of blood spatter or something...
Do we have any idea which wall Ron punched a hole in? (Where in the home it was)
Ron never set foot in that MH to spend the night again. IMHO because he knew Haleigh died in that MH... MOO

 

[Emeralgem]

Could the gun have been what was thrown in Shell Harbor and it was the gun that was retrieved? Do ya think?

If Haleigh had shot herself or got shot seems like LE would have found traces of blood spatter or something...
Do we have any idea which wall Ron punched a hole in? (Where in the home it was)
Ron never set foot in that MH to spend the night again. IMHO because he knew Haleigh died in that MH... MOO

Was a gun retrieved at Shell Harbor?
Sheriff Hardy in his last interview stated he believed the incident occurred in the Shell Harbor area..H and L lived on Magnolia not far from the Shell Harbor dock..
I don't know if Ron hit the door or a wall.
IIRC Ron did set foot back in that MH..Even did an interview, showing Haleigh's room and standing over the bed where he claimed she was taken from that night...
Maybe Ron C didn't want to live in the MH again because he suspected it was bugged by LE...JMO

 

[gngr~snap]

Was a gun retrieved at Shell Harbor?
Sheriff Hardy in his last interview stated he believed the incident occurred in the Shell Harbor area..H and L lived on Magnolia not far from the Shell Harbor dock..
I don't know if Ron hit the door or a wall.
IIRC Ron did set foot back in that MH..Even did an interview, showing Haleigh's room and standing over the bed where he claimed she was taken from that night...
Maybe Ron C didn't want to live in the MH again because he suspected it was bugged by LE...JMO

BBM bet you are right!
He went back inside but never returned to sleep/live there correct? Even stayed/camped outside after it was released?

I don't know if a gun was found in the river or not but since JO's lawyer said he couldn't comment on a gun due to the investigation made me wonder.

 

[Cowdaddy]

I would never let anybody hurt my kids. If anything, I'm OCD about it. But I do know from experience, that even family members who hate each other, don't squeal, when it's molestation against a child. & the kids learn from an early age to keep that stuff a secret. It's an off limits subject. I can't help myself, but I believe a lot of Misty's story. I can see a scared teen hiding under the covers, & just wanting everything to stop. She did say that 3 or 4 men were there, so who knows what really happened. But the neighbor who heard a woman's scream, & then saw her crying on the phone, makes me think that Misty didn't have much to do with this. I think she could've been overpowered, threatened, & made to stay out of it. Tommy could've known from experience, that Misty was easy to keep quiet. & that's assuming that there's any truth to the Joe story. but with Tommy throwing out details, right & left, there's gotta be something to it.

From what I know about the Croslins, I'd be surprised if the males in that family didn't believe they had the right to molest females and that the females believe that that is just part of the deal--like, "Live with it."

Granny Hollars certainly doesn't like Joe, but she didn't appear to make anything of the molestation accusations.

I don't have any problem believing that Misty was molested or that Misty wouldn't have or couldn't have stopped them from molesting Haleigh--if it happened. But it is a female kid and not a male who disappeared.

This is not a normal family. It would probably be difficult--or impossible--for any female on these boards to believe that their mother would come to visit them in jail, and, on the first visit, engage in girl talk about whether the daughter had yet found a romantic interest in the jailhouse. But this is exactly what Misty's mother did.

And it's on tape.

Normal math does not work at hyperspeeds. Our assumptions about what we would do or say or not do or say work with the people we go to chruch with, the people we work with, and the people we grew up with. But they don't work with people from different cultures, and the Croslin culture is probably more foreign normal Americans than the Chinese culture.

I sure haven't lived my whole life as a "normal" American. I was out there for many years. I saw all kinds of stuff, but I never saw anything like this bunch.

We might come up with right answers more of the time if we considered what we would do in a situation and assume the Croslins will do the opposite. I cannot imagine not reporting a murder. But here--and I think this is either indisputed or close to it: We have at least one person who didn't report a murder, and probably two.

 

[orbison11]

how many parents of lost/missing/kidnapped/murdered children abandon their home the day the child goes missing?

jmo