Was Joe involved?

[Maven2379]

The odd thing about this is that Ron discredited this recollection by Junior, saying that it was Crystals family that put him up to saying it. Doesn't make sense. You'd think Ron would jump at the chance to reinforce the theory someone strange was in the MH that night.

It's odd and there are so many moments like that in this case! It's like why would Ron deny JO was there, and the gun.

 

[gngr~snap]

It's odd and there are so many moments like that in this case! It's like why would Ron deny JO was there, and the gun.

No offense to anyone that believes RC is innocent BUT to me it's RED FLAGS on all counts.

JO was not at the MH.. Ron how do you know that? Was he with you? You were at werk remember?
There was no fight.. everyone else said there was even your side of the family
There was no gun.. then why did MC state it was found in a ditch?
The beds were not slept in.. really? were you there or at work? maybe while the MH was being swept for drugs before LE got there someone made them up... you were at werk remember?
she wasn't doing laundry there was no washing powder maybe she used baking soda or bleach in a pinch doesn't mean she couldn't have done it... you were at werk remember?

If Ron was at work he could not/would not make some of these statements it makes no sense to claim you knew what was going oN if you were not even there!

ETA it's a case of open mouth insert foot IMO!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Kids eat and drink the nastiest substances known to man. That is why there are so many ER trips.

Yep ..... Years ago my sis (age 2) drank lighter fluid and about a year ago my youngest (age 4) drank nail polish remover. When I was 6, I ate - chewed - several Tylenol thinking they were vitamins (????) --- FYI: everyone's ok!

 

[aoibhinn]

Right, what was that about? Why did he want to deny that?

It's odd and there are so many moments like that in this case! It's like why would Ron deny JO was there, and the gun.

RE: denying Junior's story. I'll have to find a link for that. I'll post it when I do.

RE: Ron emphatically denying JO was there and the altercation over the gun is the main thing that makes me think that JO was actually involved.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

how many parents of lost/missing/kidnapped/murdered children abandon their home the day the child goes missing?

jmo

Maybe someone whose instinct tells him something horrible happened there but who couldn't bring himself to give up hope. I know a guy who couldn't go into a hospital emergency room for years after several of his college friends were killed in a car wreck. I hated to walk into my house for months after a burglary. If you are talking about RC, at the very least, he had to think that his daughter was kidnapped out of that home. I can well imagine never wanting to step foot in the place again.

 

[suspicious1]

RE: denying Junior's story. I'll have to find a link for that. I'll post it when I do.

RE: Ron emphatically denying JO was there and the altercation over the gun is the main thing that makes me think that JO was actually involved.

Then that would also mean that it involved Ron too, right? If Ron is denying it but others are saying "yeah that's what happened", I would assume that Ron is trying to stay away from that angle and maybe he has reason to. I don't think we have heard the whole story about this "gun".

It seems that not only Ron but some of his family members were also denying Jr's story.

 

[bessie]

how many parents of lost/missing/kidnapped/murdered children abandon their home the day the child goes missing?

jmo

Only the ones who know the child is not coming home.

 

[gngr~snap]

Only the ones who know the child is not coming home.

Ding Ding Ding!!!:woohoo:
You got that right!

 

[txsvicki]

The only way I believe Joe is involved is if he is so resentful of police and has such loyalty to family that he would help cover up something that already happened.

 

[gngr~snap]

IDK I'm thinkin JO is street smart and he will lay low til he is off probation etc and then "lower the boom" IF he is still able to at that time. IF LE thinks he is involved he has a tail on him 24/7 so for now everyone IS SAFE even if he is not behind bars. MOO.
JO may have nerves and balls of steel... that is yet to be seen.
I think grany Hollars may know a thing or two about her grandson tho... MOO

 

[dodie20]

What I believe to be true (if JO is involved):

• There was no sexual assault on Misty or Haleigh.
• Haleigh died accidently, it was no-one's intention to murder her.
• Haleigh did not die as a result of a calculated physical attack (non-sexual).
• Haleigh possibly died of an overdose; pharmaceutical drugs were consumed by her or given to her.
• Haleigh vomited on the blanket that Misty washed. *
• Haleigh died in the trailer, in her bed.

• Misty, Tommy and JO are directly involved. **
• Ron is involved after the fact and may not know the full truth. **
• No-one was forced at gunpoint to be party to this.

• Junior's statement ***
• We do not have all the facts, not by a long shot. ****

* The blanket
Misty stated she covered Haleigh with a sheet after she removed the blanket. There was piles of dirty laundry strewn around the trailer and no washing powder, it makes no sense that she washed that item immediately.

** Who's involved.
Haleigh dies before Ron goes to work. It's Ron's fault.
Misty agrees to help cover-up because she is Ron's girlfriend/trying to make up for her recent indiscretions. - I can believe this
Tommy agrees to help cover-up because Ron will give him free drugs. - I don't believe this. As hard as it might be to fathom, drug addicts do draw the line somewhere.
JO agrees to help cover-up. - I don't believe this. Why would he help Ron.

Haleigh dies before Ron goes to work. It's Misty's fault.
Misty would have no choice but to help with the cover-up - I can believe this.
Tommy agrees to help with the cover-up because Misty is his sister. - I can believe this.
JO agrees to help with the cover-up - I don't believe this, again because of his relationship with Ron.

Haleigh dies before Ron goes to work. It's Tommy's fault.
I can't see this being the case, at all.
However, JO might be more inclined to help in this situation.
I could only see Misty helping if Ron told her to.

*** Junior's statement.
I think Junior was in the trailer that night and I'm inclined to believe that his report is probably fairly accurate. He may have witnessed someone performing CPR on Haleigh. I think the 'man in black' was might have been Tommy, who had changed into black pants and a black hoodie so as to be less visible, it seems JO was in his clothes from the day before. These kids aren't 'goths' so I don't think they would dress all in black, as a rule. Also, I think Junior was asked early the next day what he recalled and Tommy's squeaky, nearly new workboots were dumped as a result. Nothing from Junior's statement suggests to me that JO was in the trailer. If there had been a plan to set-up JO from the outset, remember it was Chelsea/Timmy that said he had slept in his clothes (and spent most of the night outside??)

**** The combination of JO and Ron is confusing. I cannot envisage a scenario where Ron would cover for JO if he knew that JO was the perpetrator. The same goes if Ron knew that Tommy was the perpetrator. I cannot see JO helping out Ron in any way, why would he?
If JO is involved, I think there is something much bigger at play here and it's not as simple as someone wanting a gun.

One last thing. According to Tommy's attorney, JO walked into the bedroom and saw Haleigh was dead. This could fit with Misty's earlier statement that she looked up and saw JO at the bedroom door standing over her (as she discovered Haleigh).

JMO.

I don't think an accident would've warranted such a grisly disposal, & I think one of the lesser players would've talked sooner. Also, if this were an accident, I can't fathom why they would accuse Joe or anyone else of murder. But, ya never know...anything's possible with these people..

 

[aoibhinn]

I don't think an accident would've warranted such a grisly disposal, & I think one of the lesser players would've talked sooner. Also, if this were an accident, I can't fathom why they would accuse Joe or anyone else of murder. But, ya never know...anything's possible with these people..

It's my belief, maybe it wasn't clear in the post, that Misty drugged Haleigh on purpose to knock her out. I have a couple of theories why she might have done that. Would that constitute a 1st degree murder charge or could it be a lesser degree?

 

[aoibhinn]

It's my belief, maybe it wasn't clear in the post, that Misty drugged Haleigh on purpose to knock her out. I have a couple of theories why she might have done that. Would that constitute a 1st degree murder charge or could it be a lesser degree?

To clarify I believe that Misty, Tommy and JO could have set up a robbery in the trailer and Haleigh was drugged to make sure she didn't wake up and tell. If Ron was making money from drugs, he wasn't putting it in the bank and it was probably stashed somewhere in or around the trailer.

Or he maybe ripped JO off for drugs that he came down to FL to buy. Ron set up the deal and ripped him off. JO, with the help of Misty and Tommy, came in to find drugs/money/guns - a payback - and couldn't find anything of value. He decided to take Haleigh and hold her until Ron paid up. They drugged her to make this easier. They might have even planned to keep her at Magnolia, figuring Ron would pay up fast, and brought her over there.

These are only my opinion and only if JO is involved.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I was looking for something else and ran across this Art Harris post in from November 2009, G Hollars talking about Joe and Tommy:

But her grandmother, Flora Hollers, tells me in an exclusive interview she believes Misty doesn’t know what happened, despite flunking a private polygraph, and that Tommy and a cousin, “Joe” Overstreet, both grandsons, have raised her eyebrows. Both have been repeatedly questioned by law enforcement, and deny knowing Haleigh’s whereabouts.

“Just a grandmother’s intution,” she tells me, “but I don’t believe Misty knows anything, but if she does, I’m hoping she’ll tell me.”

http://www.artharris.com/2009/11/05/exclusive-busted-again-misty-bro-tommy-croslin-not-talking/

I just thought it was interesting that she seemed to have an idea about Tommy and Joe six months ago. That lends some credibility to her statements in the phone calls that she suspected Joe was involved (even if she doesn't tell Tommy that she suspected him, too).

 

[twall]

Jr. said that two black men came to see Misty and the couch was bouncing. He didn't say that one of these two took Haleigh, but that a man dressed all in black took her. The two men might have been who Misty was entertaining, but not the one who took Haleigh out of the home later on.

First part I bolded-link to this info. please, never heard it.
Second part I bolded-true, but Jr. also said the man dressed in black is a black man.
So to me that means Jr. is stating that a black man dressed in black clothing took Haleigh. If Jr. is to be believed then Joe did not take Haleigh because he is not black.

watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsJYF9hjXuc&feature=player_embedded#

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Going back to the story that is attributed to Jr., why do we give this any value at all? All Misty or Ron had to say to Jr was "Tell Mommy about the night the man in black took Sissy" or, "do you remember the night the man in black took Sissy" or "did you see the man in black take Sissy?" If you say this a few times, Jr is going to repeat it.

I always put a lot of value in what comes out of the mouth of very young children. At that age they do not know how to lie. I remember in the Jessie Davis case, her 2 year old son told police that "mommy was in the rug" "daddy hurt mommy." In the Crista Worthington case her very young daughter was also able to describe things to the police just like Jr has done.

I read a book one time about a little 6 year old that testified in the murder cases against the murderer and rapist of her mother and little sister. She was there too and her memory was sharp and vivid.

LE has highly trained experts who interview small children. They know how to talk with them to get pertinent information on what the child saw. I don't think for one second Jr was told to say what he did. He told what he saw in his own simplistic way. There is no way a child could buffalo the experts for this long and keep the story straight. Children's minds are geared that way at this tender age. They blurt out what they know and saw.

I think he told them way more than the man in black took his sissy. Jr. seems to be very observant.

We did not learn what all Blake Davis had said until Bobby Cutts was brought to trial for Jessie's murder.

Whomever the man in black was Jr. did not know him by name or he would have said "so and so took sissy." IMO

IMO

 

[Kimster]

First part I bolded-link to this info. please, never heard it.
Second part I bolded-true, but Jr. also said the man dressed in black is a black man.
So to me that means Jr. is stating that a black man dressed in black clothing took Haleigh. If Jr. is to be believed then Joe did not take Haleigh because he is not black.

watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsJYF9hjXuc&feature=player_embedded#

Whoa! I missed that video! Thanks for bringing it up!

The thing that gets me is that kids don't always define things like adults. I saw a test they did on Oprah one time where they had kids pick out "strangers". Their interpretation wasn't what the parents had been teaching them. Sometimes we need to learn how to speak their language. Perhaps the man was "black" because he was wearing a hoodie and his face looked dark, for example.

Great video! I'd love to see a whole thread on that one.

 

[Axey]

Why would Joe remain silent for all these months when he is being fingered for murder? Unless he did it? I go from thinking he did to thinking he didn't. At the moment, I think he didn't do it and doesn't know what happened.

 

[twall]

Whoa! I missed that video! Thanks for bringing it up!

The thing that gets me is that kids don't always define things like adults. I saw a test they did on Oprah one time where they had kids pick out "strangers". Their interpretation wasn't what the parents had been teaching them. Sometimes we need to learn how to speak their language. Perhaps the man was "black" because he was wearing a hoodie and his face looked dark, for example.

Great video! I'd love to see a whole thread on that one.

Your welcome!
I have a theory in the general theory thread based on some of the info. in this video. (it's in the first few pages-I was just there getting the video)
Great point about how Jr. may see things differently than older people do.
I am white and live in an area with very few African Americans and can recall a time when my oldest dd was around Jr.'s age she saw a black man and asked me why his hands were dirty. At that age kids may not see people as being a different race than them.
And if Joe did take Haleigh it is very possible Jr. did not know him by name since he had never been around him until he came to FL.
Yes, new thread! I would start one but I gotta get some zzzzzzz's!

JMO

 

[doobiedoo52]

I agree, Kimster, that it is an interesting video. I had just watched it recently myself. It is kind of hard to tell how observant Jr really is since
he doesn't speak at all on the video except to say something when he is
off camera--I assume chasing his puppy. He nods in agreement when his
mom asks, but it would have been interesting to observe his speech skills
etc.