Tommy describes attack

[txsvicki]

I think GGMS really did bring the kids' laundry that night, and that the trip to her house before school was to get clean school clothes for Haleigh because she had nothing clean or that fit at the trailer. She said she liked doing the laundry because she could do it her way, but the truth is probably that the kids would look like vagabonds if she didn't. The state of the trailer and dirty clothes being in the dryer must have proved to police that the blanket taken off the window was never washed just as most of the clothes were never washed but allowed to pile up til Grandma did the laundry.

 

[twall]

:waitasec: BBM.... :cow:

Ron has never claimed he found the gun, he said he retrieved it, the way I see it is Misty was on the phone with him, he told her to look under the board in the culvert at Tommy's, she did and she found it, told Ron, Ron went to Tommy's and retrieved it.
If you can show me where Ron says he found the gun I am open to looking in that direction.

The gun was not found on Feb. 9th/10th, it was before that.

~snip~
Will get into it more later...but Joe drove down with his girlfriend or friend who is a young woman named Jxxxxxxx. She stayed with her family in a large Florida city on the beach and came over to pick him up after one fight, then Joe changed his mind, my sources tell me, and told her he was going to finish the rest of my vacation." Then the s hit the fan when Haleigh turned up missing that morning. He and Misty caught a ride to Kangaroo, and he left later that day, an exit date that was perhaps an exit strategy. Steal the machine gun and split?

art ;

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/22/...day/#idc-cover

The van was covered with white fingerprint powder, not the gun.

Chelsea says this in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc61AO1APc4

Examples of fingerprint powders
Some materials and compositions that have traditionally been used as fingerprint powders[1]:

White

Haddonite White (titanium dioxide 4 parts, kaolin 1part, French chalk 1 part or titanium dioxide 60%, purified talc 20%, kadin lenis (light) 20%).
Lanconide (zinc sulfide 4 parts, zinc oxide 4 parts, barium sulfate 4 parts, titanium dioxide 4 parts, bismuth oxychloride, 4 parts, calcium carbonate 1 part)
Mercury-chalk (hydrargyrum--creta) now no longer used, as it represents a serious health risk.
Titanium dioxide
White tempera (starch, titanium dioxide)
Chalk
Calcium oxide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint_powder

 

[Whisperer]

Where was tommy'a red truck on the 9th?

 

[dodie20]

I went to Youtube & relistened to some of Tommy's jail recordings & I'm gonna try to get to the rest today. Considering the garbage he has been spewing, it makes those early tapes even more mind boggling. What a liar. & he's better at it, than Misty. When he talks about the other inmates taunting him & saying 'where's that baby?', all I hear is anger & fear. Like, he can't believe their nerve, but at the same time, he's scared of general population. & when he was telling Lindsey about the taunting, her reaction was so bland. She was like,'well that's not right', but she should've been freaking out, wanting to know why they would think Tommy would know where Haleigh was. So I'm wondering...how much does Lindsey know?

 

[dodie20]

There's something about Tommy that really bothers me. I think he's the kind of person, who can put something behind him, & move on...not much of a conscience. & once he has moved on, he resents being reconfronted with it...like, 'I'm past all of that, now mind your own business & leave me alone'. He's a very self centered person...literally, he's the center of his world. He talks about his 1st arrest & how they threatened him with 5 years, but he got out of it, & he expected to do the same with the bust. & how when he got out of all of this, he would never screw up again. I bet he said the same thing after his other arrest. & I bet he said the same thing, after the Haleigh night. It seems to me, that when he admitted how high on xanax he was, he was excusing all of his actions...even the ones he wasn't admitting to. like in his opinion, there comes a point of being so high, that you lose control, & you're not responsible anymore. in & out of consciousness? maybe, maybe not. I remember when being really drunk would get you out of just about any jam. 'Oh, he had a wreck & killed his best friend? poor guy... it was an accident, because he was drunk. Oh, she cheated on her husband? What a shame, but she was drunk & didn't know any better'. I think that's what Tommy is doing with being high.

 

[krkrjx]

There's something about Tommy that really bothers me. I think he's the kind of person, who can put something behind him, & move on...not much of a conscience. & once he has moved on, he resents being reconfronted with it...like, 'I'm past all of that, now mind your own business & leave me alone'. He's a very self centered person...literally, he's the center of his world. He talks about his 1st arrest & how they threatened him with 5 years, but he got out of it, & he expected to do the same with the bust. & how when he got out of all of this, he would never screw up again. I bet he said the same thing after his other arrest. & I bet he said the same thing, after the Haleigh night. It seems to me, that when he admitted how high on xanax he was, he was excusing all of his actions...even the ones he wasn't admitting to. like in his opinion, there comes a point of being so high, that you lose control, & you're not responsible anymore. in & out of consciousness? maybe, maybe not. I remember when being really drunk would get you out of just about any jam. 'Oh, he had a wreck & killed his best friend? poor guy... it was an accident, because he was drunk. Oh, she cheated on her husband? What a shame, but she was drunk & didn't know any better'. I think that's what Tommy is doing with being high.

Dodie, I agree there is something unsettling about Tommy's lack of remorse for anything he has done. He even stated in a jail recording that he had done all kinds of sh&# before and it was no big deal, and was arrested this time only because of this "Haleigh thing." And his proclamation on tape that he is drug free and when he gets out he's not doing drugs anymore...that appears as another one of Tommy's acts of contrition only designed to be heard on a recording, not likely something he would have adhered to if he had gotten out of jail.

I see Misty the same way! She seems able to put things behind her very easily and move on. And when she was arrested, made all kinds of promises to mend her ways once she is out. She's another one where I believe what she says is just said for the recording, without either the intention or the capability of following through (once she got out).

JMO.

 

[dodie20]

I also noticed in an early tape, that Tommy didn't like Werter! & why? because he & Steve Brown wanted him to draw a map...I noticed, even before Tommy's wild tales, that any time something Haleigh related was brought up, you could hear the rising panic & anger in his voice. I guess that's the main reason I didn't like him. But I had forgotten about that map, & this was long before his Joe tales, so I wonder where they were going with that. also, on a side note. Lindsey, with her teary, little girl voice telling Tommy she needed him home to protect her, just about made me wanna throw up. Those poor kids.

 

[3doglady]

There's something about Tommy that really bothers me. I think he's the kind of person, who can put something behind him, & move on...not much of a conscience. & once he has moved on, he resents being reconfronted with it...like, 'I'm past all of that, now mind your own business & leave me alone'. He's a very self centered person...literally, he's the center of his world. He talks about his 1st arrest & how they threatened him with 5 years, but he got out of it, & he expected to do the same with the bust. & how when he got out of all of this, he would never screw up again. I bet he said the same thing after his other arrest. & I bet he said the same thing, after the Haleigh night. It seems to me, that when he admitted how high on xanax he was, he was excusing all of his actions...even the ones he wasn't admitting to. like in his opinion, there comes a point of being so high, that you lose control, & you're not responsible anymore. in & out of consciousness? maybe, maybe not. I remember when being really drunk would get you out of just about any jam. 'Oh, he had a wreck & killed his best friend? poor guy... it was an accident, because he was drunk. Oh, she cheated on her husband? What a shame, but she was drunk & didn't know any better'. I think that's what Tommy is doing with being high.

I agree with everything you said. The thing that doesn't compute for me is his weight loss. Most people gain weight when they get off drugs. We know his main concern is himself. Is he afraid of something?

 

[txsvicki]

I also noticed in an early tape, that Tommy didn't like Werter! & why? because he & Steve Brown wanted him to draw a map...I noticed, even before Tommy's wild tales, that any time something Haleigh related was brought up, you could hear the rising panic & anger in his voice. I guess that's the main reason I didn't like him. But I had forgotten about that map, & this was long before his Joe tales, so I wonder where they were going with that. also, on a side note. Lindsey, with her teary, little girl voice telling Tommy she needed him home to protect her, just about made me wanna throw up. Those poor kids.

She had the pitbull for protection, the one that she hated so much for some reason. Maybe because it was very alert and drew even more attention to the family. Lindsay claimed that she would wake up and miss Tommy if he even got up and watched TV for thirty minutes, yet she never mentions him out running around til all hours the night Haleigh went missing.

 

[dodie20]

ok, I just listened to Tommy's call to his Gmaw, & watched an interview where Werter claimed Tommy didn't discuss the Joe story with her. I know lawyers are sticklers for details, but does anybody know how Werter explained this obvious lie from Tommy? also, Flo had Lindsey on the other line, & after Flo was relaying the blaming Joe stuff, & saying that he couldn't get to them or the kids, Lindsey asked if Tommy was the' ONE'. & later in the conversation, somebody else asked the same question, I think. & then at the end of the call, Flo relates the message to Tommy that if he doesn't call his mom, she has threatened to take all her xanax & kill herself,,,& he's like 'ok'. I'm sorry, but after listening to this conversation, (my 1st time), I believe Tommy even less. Even his wife was questioning his innocence.

 

[suspicious1]

There's something about Tommy that really bothers me. I think he's the kind of person, who can put something behind him, & move on...not much of a conscience. & once he has moved on, he resents being reconfronted with it...like, 'I'm past all of that, now mind your own business & leave me alone'. He's a very self centered person...literally, he's the center of his world. He talks about his 1st arrest & how they threatened him with 5 years, but he got out of it, & he expected to do the same with the bust. & how when he got out of all of this, he would never screw up again. I bet he said the same thing after his other arrest. & I bet he said the same thing, after the Haleigh night. It seems to me, that when he admitted how high on xanax he was, he was excusing all of his actions...even the ones he wasn't admitting to. like in his opinion, there comes a point of being so high, that you lose control, & you're not responsible anymore. in & out of consciousness? maybe, maybe not. I remember when being really drunk would get you out of just about any jam. 'Oh, he had a wreck & killed his best friend? poor guy... it was an accident, because he was drunk. Oh, she cheated on her husband? What a shame, but she was drunk & didn't know any better'. I think that's what Tommy is doing with being high.

It's funny, Dodie, because this is how I view Ron.

 

[Whisperer]

ron is a compulsive liar...the othes are just liars. tommy's story doesn't hold up. Why is he covering for misty and why is she saying tommy could have killed Haleigh? I will have to go back and listen to tommy's tapes again but he didn't strike me as bad as what everyone is saying. I may have been benfoozled.

Misty says tommy or Jo took Haleigh
tommy says Jo took Haleigh
ron says Jo took Haleigh.

Why doesn't misty say just JO....why does she stretch it to include her brother? Why is she so easily ready to include her brother in the crime? Tommy has never mentioned misty's name or her even being there.

Why does ron say JO took Haleigh? Why didn't he blame it on tommy? He must have info he has never told in order to leap to that conclusion. If he didn't want LE going after JO, there is a BIG problem. What is it?

 

[dodie20]

It's funny, Dodie, because this is how I view Ron.

I agree, especially after he married Misty, but relistening to some of Tommy's tapes, enlightened me a little on him...& even though I knew he was selfish before, I didn't realize how unconcerned he was with everybody else. his kids, his mom, his wife, etc...& I remember his desperation, but listening now, I can hear the panic. What's not fair, is we don't have Ron's calls to go back & relisten to. & what ticked me off on youtube, is a commenter said that the Croslins talked too much, & they needed to be more like Ron, & not use the phone. arghhhh, & that's probably what the average person thinks.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

:waitasec: From listening in on one of Levi's shows the way KP explained Ron's plea deal is that LE will not be allowed to use anything he says regarding the Haleigh case against him. :banghead: He is the only one that LE is taking as a creditable source and I question why.:furious: Ron has lied just as much as the rest of them IMO. If you look deep into what all has happened and Ron not going after Joe there has to be a reason IMO. Tommy to me is covering for Timmy, Misty, and Ron out of fear. JMO :cow:

I hope that Tommy will tell the truth, a truth that the DA can used to find out what really happen to Haleigh. I just don't buy the Joe did it theory...I may change my mind later if we learn anything that is creditable, but at this point they are all lying to cover their own butts and IMO and Ron is the master mind here and the one that really knows how Haleigh died and used the Croslins to cover for his butt. That Rat in Tommy's mail box to me was message to Tommy to keep his mouth shut. :cow:

"snip" http://staugustine.com/news/2010-08-20/new-chilling-details-case-haleigh-cummings

"According to Tommy, she was limp, quiet," Werter said. "She may have already been dead when she left the trailer." (If true that Haleigh was dead hours before then how did she really die I wonder? Could it be that Misty was called to babysit by TN and Haleigh was already dead?)

Werter said he would not say where Croslin was during the attack but said the two men drove to the dock with the kindergärtner in a bag. (More conflicting stories, if Haleigh was already dead then how did they hear/see/witness an attack? They say Misty hid, Tommy was on the couch, Tommy was near the back door. I just don't see how Joe could of hurt Haleigh if she was already dead from the sound of it.
If they did hear/see/witness an attack then why would Misty and Tommy just walk away, watched, or did nothing. LE feels that Misty didn't harm Haleigh per AH, but feel she knows who did and the only person the SA is interested in listening to is RC. Why? IMO, Ron and Timmy Croslin know what happen to Haleigh and Misty and Tommy is covering for Ron out of fear and Timmy out of family bond. Remember when Chelsea asked Misty if it was going to hurt someone they cared about? Misty said one yes, the other not so much and Chelsea just blurted out, well I could give a chit about Ronald)

Werter said, That night Overstreet drove to Croslin Jr.'s house in a van borrowed from another Croslin brother and went to the mobile home where Misty was with the children. (OK, so if they got the van from Timmy why is it that Chelsea claims Timmy was in bed asleep? She said she was up late that night, how would she not know that Timmy gave Joe the keys to the van? IMO, it was Timmy who drove the van to the MH and IMO it was the MH on Magnolia. JMO....Why has LE not picked up Timmy yet? I see now why he and Chelsea got the heck out of doge so fast.)
They went there around midnight, Werter said. (Hmm...around midnight the time that Ron was to get off work, yet he worked 3hrs over time and LE questioned what took him so long to get back to the MH. What if Ron did leave at midnight and LE knows that and went back to work later on and claimed he was working over time? LE has only said they are satisfied with his shift of him being at work. Nothing about over time.)
Werter says, Ronald Cummings, was at work. (How convenient the gun was not in the home during the so called attack. LE has not said what hrs Ron worked, but did put in the police report that they did take the barretta from the home that night. How did it get there and when? Misty claims out of all the nights the gun was not in the home, but it magically appeared after Misty called 911.
Something else that makes no sense to me. Ron made around 25-90+ calls that night, AH says that TS said that Ron called the house to ask if Tommy had seen Misty. My question is how would Ron know that Misty was not home? Why call Tommy's house searching for her and not leave work to check on the children? Also, Ron is now admitting that there was a fight with Joe about the gun. Why did he lie about the fight to begin with? Why did he back out each time others wanted to go to TN to confront Joe?
It is said that Ron had suspected that Joe took his barretta,, nothing said about the riffle. But Ron had no hard feeling about Joe, in fact what is said is that he was the one who told Chelsea and Misty where to find the gun in the culvert. But Ron had said to Cobra that he was the one that found the gun and cleaned it and turned it over to LE. The big question is why was that gun hidden? It points to me IMO, that Ron wanted to hide the gun for what ever reason and put the blame on Joe of stealing it, but he was the one who knew where the gun was.:waitasec[/

 

[Emeralgem]

There's something about Tommy that really bothers me. I think he's the kind of person, who can put something behind him, & move on...not much of a conscience. & once he has moved on, he resents being reconfronted with it...like, 'I'm past all of that, now mind your own business & leave me alone'. He's a very self centered person...literally, he's the center of his world. He talks about his 1st arrest & how they threatened him with 5 years, but he got out of it, & he expected to do the same with the bust. & how when he got out of all of this, he would never screw up again. I bet he said the same thing after his other arrest. & I bet he said the same thing, after the Haleigh night. It seems to me, that when he admitted how high on xanax he was, he was excusing all of his actions...even the ones he wasn't admitting to. like in his opinion, there comes a point of being so high, that you lose control, & you're not responsible anymore. in & out of consciousness? maybe, maybe not. I remember when being really drunk would get you out of just about any jam. 'Oh, he had a wreck & killed his best friend? poor guy... it was an accident, because he was drunk. Oh, she cheated on her husband? What a shame, but she was drunk & didn't know any better'. I think that's what Tommy is doing with being high.

dodie..IMHO.. You have described Ronald Cummings to a "T"..JMHO

 

[Emeralgem]

:waitasec: From listening in on one of Levi's shows the way KP explained Ron's plea deal is that LE will not be allowed to use anything he says regarding the Haleigh case against him. :banghead: He is the only one that LE is taking as a creditable source and I question why.:furious: Ron has lied just as much as the rest of them IMO. If you look deep into what all has happened and Ron not going after Joe there has to be a reason IMO. Tommy to me is covering for Timmy, Misty, and Ron out of fear. JMO :cow:

I hope that Tommy will tell the truth, a truth that the DA can used to find out what really happen to Haleigh. I just don't buy the Joe did it theory...I may change my mind later if we learn anything that is creditable, but at this point they are all lying to cover their own butts and IMO and Ron is the master mind here and the one that really knows how Haleigh died and used the Croslins to cover for his butt. That Rat in Tommy's mail box to me was message to Tommy to keep his mouth shut. :cow:

Please, correct me IF I am wrong but didn't AH reveal last week on the Levi show Ronald called Tommy at his parent's house but was not looking for Misty..

Werter claims Tommy was not there when the incident happened. Tommy claims Jo went ballistic when he saw a deceased Haleigh in the bedroom..
IF any of this information is true, I'm inclined to believe Tommy was called to the scene, and there was a joint effort put forth by the Croslins to frame Jo..
No doubt in my mind IF Chelsey was not at 130 Magnolia with Misty when the incident occurred Misty called both Chelsey and Timmy to the scene...Tommy was called too...JMHO..

 

[1Chump]

The gun was not found on Feb. 9th/10th, it was before that.

~snip~
Will get into it more later...but Joe drove down with his girlfriend or friend who is a young woman named Jxxxxxxx. She stayed with her family in a large Florida city on the beach and came over to pick him up after one fight, then Joe changed his mind, my sources tell me, and told her he was going to finish the rest of my vacation." Then the s hit the fan when Haleigh turned up missing that morning. He and Misty caught a ride to Kangaroo, and he left later that day, an exit date that was perhaps an exit strategy. Steal the machine gun and split?

art ;

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/22/...day/#idc-cover

Snipped by me.

Do you have a link for this statement? The one you provided has an error. I tried to find it myself but couldn't.

I'm really interested in the date that Art posted his exclusive on Joe's friend coming down on a day other than when they left.

 

[1Chump]

ok, I just listened to Tommy's call to his Gmaw, & watched an interview where Werter claimed Tommy didn't discuss the Joe story with her. I know lawyers are sticklers for details, but does anybody know how Werter explained this obvious lie from Tommy? also, Flo had Lindsey on the other line, & after Flo was relaying the blaming Joe stuff, & saying that he couldn't get to them or the kids, Lindsey asked if Tommy was the' ONE'. & later in the conversation, somebody else asked the same question, I think. & then at the end of the call, Flo relates the message to Tommy that if he doesn't call his mom, she has threatened to take all her xanax & kill herself,,,& he's like 'ok'. I'm sorry, but after listening to this conversation, (my 1st time), I believe Tommy even less. Even his wife was questioning his innocence.

Tommy's attorney said that Tommy did not tell Flo any details. The tape confirms that. Flo provided all the details, Tommy just agreed.

IMO, that conversation reminded me of myself. I do that with certain family members who I have a hard time getting off the phone. If I don't agree, they will ask why and I will be on the phone forever. So when I would lose the bet and have to make the call to tell them something, I would just agree until I could get them off the phone. A few times I was on the phone for hours and never heard a word that was said. I actually laid the phone down while I was cooking or reading or whatever. I could hear when they paused to take a breath and would just say "uh-huh." Just like Gma Flo, the person would then repeat thier words as mine. Fortunately, we all did it so we all knew whoever they were talking to was just agreeing to get them off the phone and never took them seriously. Because I'm sure I agreed to things that I would never agree too if I paid attention to them.

 

[lonetraveler]

Please, correct me IF I am wrong but didn't AH reveal last week on the Levi show Ronald called Tommy at his parent's house but was not looking for Misty..

Werter claims Tommy was not there when the incident happened. Tommy claims Jo went ballistic when he saw a deceased Haleigh in the bedroom..
IF any of this information is true, I'm inclined to believe Tommy was called to the scene, and there was a joint effort put forth by the Croslins to frame Jo..
No doubt in my mind IF Chelsey was not at 130 Magnolia with Misty when the incident occurred Misty called both Chelsey and Timmy to the scene...Tommy was called too...JMHO..

This story makes the most sense to me for the sequence of events, I'm still trying to figure out how Joe knew to call Tommy and not the other way around. I'm sure we are getting only bits and pieces of the events. There are reports that Joe used Chelsea's phone to call Tommy. I would like to know more about calls made out of the Magnolia residence. Maybe then it would be easier to pinpoint why Tommy was at the Magnolia residence since Ron was suppose to have called the house at Magnolia and spoke to Tommy. Do you have any thoughts on these two items?

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Please, correct me IF I am wrong but didn't AH reveal last week on the Levi show Ronald called Tommy at his parent's house but was not looking for Misty..

Werter claims Tommy was not there when the incident happened. Tommy claims Jo went ballistic when he saw a deceased Haleigh in the bedroom..
IF any of this information is true, I'm inclined to believe Tommy was called to the scene, and there was a joint effort put forth by the Croslins to frame Jo..
No doubt in my mind IF Chelsey was not at 130 Magnolia with Misty when the incident occurred Misty called both Chelsey and Timmy to the scene...Tommy was called too...JMHO..

BBM...Sorry, I'm confused...again. when did tommy say this? before The story was told about Jo putting H in the black bag? And I thought Werter is the one who said that TC was there when Jo put H in the car and made him go with him. sorry but it is all runnig together now for me.:waitasec: