Tommy describes attack

This story makes the most sense to me for the sequence of events, I'm still trying to figure out how Joe knew to call Tommy and not the other way around. I'm sure we are getting only bits and pieces of the events. There are reports that Joe used Chelsea's phone to call Tommy. I would like to know more about calls made out of the Magnolia residence. Maybe then it would be easier to pinpoint why Tommy was at the Magnolia residence since Ron was suppose to have called the house at Magnolia and spoke to Tommy. Do you have any thoughts on these two items?

I have an opinion..and it could answer what I bolded on your comment..

Remember the LE being at Tommy's residence at 2 something that night..due to a call...(forgive me I don't have the link) and the response from the dispatcher to the LE..was...she was seen in her residence..about an hour and a half ago....???.This was before the 911 call was made from Rons'

IMO...it was Tommy saying to the LE
that statement....because...perhaps it was HE...that was at the Magnolia residence with Misty and hour and half earlier...and had been there for quite awhile..(clean up)...and was there when Ron called..otherwise...how would Tommy KNOW Misty WAS LAST SEEN..at the Magnolia residence...

This call has always bothered me...as to who they were talking about..
So I believe that Tommy was at the Magnolia residence..Ron called there and talked to him...and perhaps the conversation tommy had with Ron..was not about where Misty was....but...how was the progress going...

all my opinion
 
BBM...Sorry, I'm confused...again. when did tommy say this? before The story was told about Jo putting H in the black bag? And I thought Werter is the one who said that TC was there when Jo put H in the car and made him go with him. sorry but it is all runnig together now for me.:waitasec:


That tidbit of information was revealed on NG..What happened to it, I don't know... but I heard it, as did some others..
 
Snipped by me.

Do you have a link for this statement? The one you provided has an error. I tried to find it myself but couldn't.

I'm really interested in the date that Art posted his exclusive on Joe's friend coming down on a day other than when they left.

oops, sorry the link did not work.

Here it is

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/22/haleigh-cummings-sked-for-nancy-grace-monday/#more-4679

The information is not in the article, it is in the comment section under the article. It is a comment to the poster 911whatsurproblem. Click where it says 5 replies and Art's comment will come up.
 
oops, sorry the link did not work.

Here it is

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/22/haleigh-cummings-sked-for-nancy-grace-monday/#more-4679

The information is not in the article, it is in the comment section under the article. It is a comment to the poster 911whatsurproblem. Click where it says 5 replies and Art's comment will come up.

Thank you. His comment says it was posted two weeks ago, not the exact date.

I just find it very interesting that we have never heard that Joe called the girl down to pick him up, she came down, then he decided to stay so she left. The reason it is interesting is my post on August 26, 2010, almost 3 weeks ago in this thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5556845&highlight=joe's+ride#post5556845

"He told the story about coming down from his room to a fight with Joe and Hank (Tommy). He talks about Joe's ride being there to take him home. The entire story sounds like it happened on Feb. 9...the day Haleigh disappeared."

I had brought it up before. I think in June. But I remembered bringing it up again last month.

So glad Art's unnamed source just happened to clear up my "question."
 
It was reported that LE interviewed Joe in Tennessee not long after he had returned home and that they had also interviewed the girl Joe rode to and from Florida with, as well as confiscated and checked out her car.

I wonder if LE asked the girl if she had come to pick up Joe at any time prior to the time she actually picked him up for the drive home. Maybe she admitted to this, or maybe she denied it and has an ironclad alibi for the day/time in question.
 
I was reading my daughter's Oct. issue of Cosmo, & ran across an article about serial rapists, & former Manhatten sex-crimes prosecutor, Linda Fairstein, made some interesting points. I think these might apply to Tommy. '...they know when she's alone & what time she goes to bed. In fact law-enforcement experts know that there is a strong link between burglars-many of whom started their criminal activities as Peeping Toms-and serial rapists who assault women in their own house. These rapists don't strike just any home. They tend to look for a house that is more isolated than the others around it-for example, separated by thick bushes or a patch of woods, thereby offering an easier break-in and subsequent getaway...These serial assailants search for that brief moment of vulnerability when you are by yourself...' This really struck me, because even though I didn't know, I felt that Tommy's thieving & neighborhood wandering lifestyle, might be connected to Haleigh missing. IMO, it's not that big of a leap for a sneaky person who takes what he wants, to him taking who he wants.
 
I was reading my daughter's Oct. issue of Cosmo, & ran across an article about serial rapists, & former Manhatten sex-crimes prosecutor, Linda Fairstein, made some interesting points. I think these might apply to Tommy. '...they know when she's alone & what time she goes to bed. In fact law-enforcement experts know that there is a strong link between burglars-many of whom started their criminal activities as Peeping Toms-and serial rapists who assault women in their own house. These rapists don't strike just any home. They tend to look for a house that is more isolated than the others around it-for example, separated by thick bushes or a patch of woods, thereby offering an easier break-in and subsequent getaway...These serial assailants search for that brief moment of vulnerability when you are by yourself...' This really struck me, because even though I didn't know, I felt that Tommy's thieving & neighborhood wandering lifestyle, might be connected to Haleigh missing. IMO, it's not that big of a leap for a sneaky person who takes what he wants, to him taking who he wants.

Dodie, that is a very interesting post. I think it serves no purpose to not look at ALL possible perps, and all possible scenarios.

Tommy, IMO, is a petty criminal. He is a serial thief, if nothing else. I do see him as one who would take advantage of an opportunity, such as watching a home for a time when it is unoccupied, to go in and steal. And let's face it, Ron no doubt had things inside his home that Tommy would probably be interested in stealing.

If Tommy went to the MH looking for Misty and she didn't answer the door, he might have gone inside. Maybe she left a door unlocked, or maybe the front door did not have a deadbolt and could have been bumped...who knows. He did say he knocked on the door, though he did not specify which door IIRC.

Let's say, for the sake of looking at all possibilities, that Tommy went there with no intent of doing wrong, but once there saw an opportunity to do what he does almost as good as he lies--stealing.

If the kids were home alone, or if Misty was there fast asleep, Haleigh could have been awakened when Tommy came in. Maybe she started to cry. If so, Tommy might have tried to quiet her; maybe she threatened to tell her daddy. Again...who knows.

In this scenario, something absolutely unintended could have occurred. Tommy might have put his hand over Haleigh's mouth and nose, and she passed out. He panicked, and took her out of the house and placed her somewhere nearby...maybe near the dumpster?

It is possible Tommy could have done this, and even gone back later to remove the child from where he had placed her. And he could have done it all without making noise or calling attention to himself, given he is a somewhat accomplished burglar.

Ron and Misty, et al. could have displayed suspicious-appearing behavior because they are in fact guilty persons...though maybe not in this crime. They could be guilty of tampering with the scene (to clean the place up prior to calling LE). They could actually be guilty of something even greater but yet unrelated to Haleigh's demise--something that they could not bring themselves to open up about.

Sorry, I did not intend this to be so long, it's just hard to speak of scenarios in this case without trying to tie up loose ends, etc. The biggest problem I have with Tommy as the perp is that I do not think he is a killer. Of course, that doesn't mean this didn't happen accidentally as I described, with no intent to harm the child. However, if something like that did happen, it would be a felony murder charge even if murder was not intended. It would be that because if someone dies during the commission of a felony, it is considered felony murder. Basically, Tommy could very well then try to implicate Joe, maybe even did so in subtle ways with Misty, knowing she would eventually repeat it.

I have my main theory and the above is not it...but it is always wise to consider all possibilities before coming to a conclusion. I have been reading your posts and many of them have helped me do that.
 
IDK why, but I think there's a very fine line between home burglaries & assaults. So often, after being burglarized, people say, (especially women), 'I feel so violated', A thief can shoplift from Walmart, or embezzle money from work, & in MOO, that's a totally different thing. Even if the thief makes off with more money, there's nothing personal going on. To invade somebody's home, is a power play & that power gives the thief a charge...otherwise, without that charge, the thief would just shoplift. I've been thinking & this is what I've come up with. When a person rapes or murders a child, we wonder how he can live with himself. This is part of how I think they can. He starts small, & after each progression, makes the necessary adjustments, to live with himself, & when that's taken care of, he moves on to something bigger. Like being a stalker or a peeping Tom, & after awhile moving on to breaking and entering. Once he accepts himself as a peeping Tom, he can move to the next level. Once he accepts himself as a breaker & enterer, he can move to the next level of assaulter or rapist. Once he accepts that, then he moves on up to murderer. So, I think it's a gradual process. I doubt many people wake up one day to rape & murder, without some kind of lead in or practice. I'm not saying I think this is what went on with Tommy, but somebody did something to Haleigh, &whoever did it, isn't suffering from enough remorse to confess...so, I think this is a possibility.
 
Big difference between burglary and robbery. Robbers are the scary ones. We had a saying that said about the criminals who rob. If they'll rob you, they'll rape you. Robbery is a personal crime involving contact with the victim. When they get that personal, they can escalate to rape. Many of the people convicted of robbery that were sitting in prison were actually rapists but since robbery was a longer sentence, the rape was dropped.

Burglars are criminals who steal when no one is around. Not usually violent as they prefer not to be confronted.
 
Maybe Chelsea made the 911 call and when RC found out or whoever is in on the demise and cover up, threatened Chelsea and her children. She had a ticket and a way to get out of town unlike the others so they took it and they took it as fast as they could.

I have always thought that MC and ToC were supposed to call 911 before RC got home and they chickened out. Misty called but hung up and when you call 911 from a land line the units do a well check no matter what. If you call from a cell phone and hang up they call you back and ask you if you have an energency. I have two young children so both have happened.

Curious G
 
Maybe Chelsea made the 911 call and when RC found out or whoever is in on the demise and cover up, threatened Chelsea and her children. She had a ticket and a way to get out of town unlike the others so they took it and they took it as fast as they could.

I have always thought that MC and ToC were supposed to call 911 before RC got home and they chickened out. Misty called but hung up and when you call 911 from a land line the units do a well check no matter what. If you call from a cell phone and hang up they call you back and ask you if you have an energency. I have two young children so both have happened.

Curious G

That is what I have thought also....(the bolded part of your theory)

IMO..That the plan was for Misty to make the 911 from Ron's MH before Ron got home..and somehow...the attempt to call 911 was made from Tommy's residence..which sent officers out to check..(.Like your opinion..the call was probably made from a land line phone)and a wellness check was initiated..

IMO...That was the reason Ron was soooooo angry on the 911 call......Misty had not followed thru to make the 911 call...

IMO...Now Ron HAS to talk to the 911 operator and give some facts...which he ...after several minutes ...hangs up on her...

IMO...SOMEONE..made the call, and it could very well have been Chelsea...

These folks are unlike anything and beats everything I have ever seen..

MOO
 
That is what I have thought also....(the bolded part of your theory)

IMO..That the plan was for Misty to make the 911 from Ron's MH before Ron got home..and somehow...the attempt to call 911 was made from Tommy's residence..which sent officers out to check..(.Like your opinion..the call was probably made from a land line phone)and a wellness check was initiated..

IMO...That was the reason Ron was soooooo angry on the 911 call......Misty had not followed thru to make the 911 call...

IMO...Now Ron HAS to talk to the 911 operator and give some facts...which he ...after several minutes ...hangs up on her...

IMO...SOMEONE..made the call, and it could very well have been Chelsea...
These folks are unlike anything and beats everything I have ever seen..

MOO

Why do you say Chelsea? She didn't live at the Tyler Street address..
 
This story makes the most sense to me for the sequence of events, I'm still trying to figure out how Joe knew to call Tommy and not the other way around. I'm sure we are getting only bits and pieces of the events. There are reports that Joe used Chelsea's phone to call Tommy. I would like to know more about calls made out of the Magnolia residence. Maybe then it would be easier to pinpoint why Tommy was at the Magnolia residence since Ron was suppose to have called the house at Magnolia and spoke to Tommy. Do you have any thoughts on these two items?

Yep, I know I'm quoting my own post but rereading here tonight prompted a thought, LOL. Maybe Misty called Chelsea and Chelsea and Joe rode over to the Magnolia residence to help out. Joe used Chelsea's phone to call Tommy to let him know that he was coming by to pick him up so that he could help out with the cleanup.:waitasec:
 
Yep, I know I'm quoting my own post but rereading here tonight prompted a thought, LOL. Maybe Misty called Chelsea and Chelsea and Joe rode over to the Magnolia residence to help out. Joe used Chelsea's phone to call Tommy to let him know that he was coming by to pick him up so that he could help out with the cleanup.:waitasec:

No doubt in my mind Misty called Chelsey... that is.... unless Chelsey was already there when the incident occurred...Just throwing that out there since some believe it may have been Chelsey who picked up Haleigh and Austin at the bus stop...I also realize Chelsey has stated Ron C picked up Haleigh, however, she can't very well say she picked up Haleigh IF indeed she did and the incident occurred when she took Haleigh over to Magnolia Street......JMHO
 
Why do you say Chelsea? She didn't live at the Tyler Street address..

I know she didn't live there, but she could have been there...Just a possible guess where these folks...were...that night...with all the cover up and activity...It's hard to guess...and be right...where all these people were..that night....

She was not my FIRST guess....But it is just a guess....
 

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