Was JonBenet sexually abused in the strictest sense of this term?

[MysteryAddict]

quoting- Super Dave-
"If you had sexually abused your child prior to the crime, would you set the crime scene up to make it appear that the crime was sexually motivated?"

Damn straight!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Well- you sure did answer the question of -
Why the pervy staging of the crime scene!!

 

[BBB167893]

"Well- you sure did answer the question of -Why the pervy staging of the crime scene!!"

That was my intent! I mean, what else COULD you do?

(As killer): "Gee, I wonder if all that stuff I did to her little area should be explained? I mean, coroners tend to notice stuff like that!"

 

[julianne]

PagingDrDetect,

You posted individual photos of the basement windows. I have never seen the photos of each individual window, only photos that had the 3 windows in one photo. Can you post that pic????

 

[aussiesheila]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I began teaching elementary school in 1978 and taught until 1994. I taught 5 and 6 year olds for 4 of those 16 years. It was common knowledge that a child of this age who soiled, wet and additionally had chronic vaginal, kidney, and/or bladder infections exhibited signs of probable sexual abuse, which if we, as the child's teacher ignored or left unreported could not only cost us our teaching position, it could also lead to prosecution.

:furious: How sad to imagine JonBenet's pediatrician of some 27 visits, fellow church parishioner, and family friend actually doing so much less than would be expected of a JonBenet's classroom teacher. He should be prosecuted for negligence which lead to the death of JonBenet Ramsey, in my humble opinion! :furious:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer/primer1_fam.html
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=-1]Dr. Francesco and Penni Beuf[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-2]"JonBen�t's pediatrician and his wife, who were also Ramsey friends and fellow parishioners of St. John's Episcopal Church. Dr. Beuf has stated that he saw no sign of sexual or other abuse in any of the 27 visits JonBen�t made to his office in the 3 years prior to her death. He prescribed tranquilizers to Patsy the day of the murder. Anything the Ramseys told Dr. Beuf might be considered privileged because of his physician status.[/size][/font] "
​

I wholeheartedly agree. Dr B said on one of his television interviews, however, that he did report instances of suspected sexual abuse that presented in his practice. I find it curious therefore, that in JonBenet's case, he did not. It was almost as though he was deliberately denying the very clear evidence of abuse in JonBenet's case and in addition, was constantly reassuring Patsy that everything was normal. There had to be a reason for this. Was it because he had links to a pedophile group, perhaps members of the church congregation, that I think were abusing JonBenet for three years prior to her death? I often wonder whether this was the case and that he was aiding and abetting them in their activities for some reason. Perhaps the reason was that he was allowed to join in some of the abuse sessions.

I think the cases Dr B did report to authorities were the ones where he had no involvement with the perpetrators, and of course he would have had to report some cases so as not to come under suspicion himself.

I did note also, that he recorded that during one of JonBenet's early visits, that he questioned Patsy about JonBenet's sex education. I took this to be a euphemistic way of saying that he probed Patsy as to how strong her suspicions that JonBenet was being sexually abused actually were. You see, I think that all those visits that Patsy took JonBenet to see him for, were her way of addressing the fact that she did suspect JonBenet was being abused by someone close to the family. I think she took her to Dr B hoping that he would take control of the situation because she did not have the mental stamina to do so herself, but Dr B did not because his loyalties lay elsewhere.

I would very much like to know who referred Patsy to Dr B. Was it one of her relatives or a best friend who did? One who knew Dr B could be trusted to make all kinds of benign excuses for any indicators of sexual abuse that JonBenet presented with so that they could continue to abuse her for years and years with impunity?

 

[aussiesheila]

Please direct me to something that supports the idea that JonBenet had repeated incidents of soiling (defacating) in her pants during the day.

I have read this on here numerous times by RDI's stating that this supports the claims of her being sexually abused. I have never read this anywhere else, so I'm just wondering if ya'll could provide a link to documentation that supports this. Not a quote from a book written to make money, not a message on a forum. Something substantial, please.

Julianne, in reply to your question;


I think one of the most telling pieces of evidence comes from the microscopic studies performed on behalf of the coroner -

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation"



There was also a widely reported comment by Nedra that "JonBenet was only a little bit abused"

That Patsy was probably abused by her own father is evidenced by the body language she displayed during the June 98 interviews when questioned about whether she herself had suffered prior sexual abuse. Apparently there are videotapes of those interviews which I have not seen, but that Jayelles and others have. Jayelles described to me how during that line of questioning Patsy became distressed and answered in a very childlike voice, behaviour that indicated that she had in fact, experienced such events even though she denied it. It is my experience that child abusers do not confine themselves to one victim, and I think there is strong reason to believe that if DP had abused his daughter then he very likely would have abused his grand-daughter as well.



I think there is also evidence from the coroner's microscopic studies that JonBenet had longstanding tissue damage to organs in her neck, indicating that a breath control device like the one that was found on her body, had been used on her before, possibly in prior sessions of sexual abuse -

"Thyroid: The thyroid gland is composed of normal-appearing follicles. An occasional isolated area of chronic interstitial inflammatory infiltrate is seen. There is also a small fragment of parathyroid tissue."
"Trachea: There is mild chronic inflammation in the submucosa of the trachea."

 

[BBB167893]

Funny. My bro said the same thing! He took it past my thinking, though.

 

[KentuckyKaren]

Please forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question, but I have seen conflicting reports... Was there anything found in JBR's vagina or not? I have read in some places that there was a broken paintbrush handle, but then in other places, I've read that there were only microscopic bits of something unidentifiable in there. Seriously?! How can the evidence not be clear on which is true? I'm so confused... It seems to be commonly believed that the paintbrush handle was in her vagina, but I have not seen anything definitive. Can anyone shed light on this issue?

 

[BBB167893]

Please forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question, but I have seen conflicting reports... Was there anything found in JBR's vagina or not? I have read in some places that there was a broken paintbrush handle, but then in other places, I've read that there were only microscopic bits of something unidentifiable in there. Seriously?! How can the evidence not be clear on which is true? I'm so confused... It seems to be commonly believed that the paintbrush handle was in her vagina, but I have not seen anything definitive. Can anyone shed light on this issue?

I'll help. There was something. There was a tiny bit of the paintbrush in there.

 

[spitsthetruth]

As doc S stated recently (along time ago but recently on CBS doc) he was given a slide and confirmed microscopic bits of paint brush, Doc L agreed. Clearly this to them would not be what a deranged sexual (ninja like apparently) perv. would have done to her in the approximately 1:30min to 2 hours it would have required to accomplish everything that was said to have been done that night under the IDI theory. Thus conclusion is that the sexual abuse with the paintbrush was staged. This speaks only to the " Acute abuse" noted in ME report. ME report states Chronic abuse ( long term ) also. The chronic abuse has been disputed by some experts on the Ramsy side and all opinions can be found on acandyrose.com. Important to point out ME is only doctor who inspected physical body. Disputing opinions were offered by 'experts' (sarchasm here) who may not have seen anything more then ME report.

 

[TeaTime]

"Only a little bit molested" suggests that there is a level of molestation that is deemed acceptable and crashes any theory of a crazed pedophile sneaking in to molest JBR "a little bit".

JMHO

 

[madeleine]

Okay, did dr Beuf ever had reasons to check her down there or not?

IIRC it was stated that he never examined her down there?

But from PR I understand something else

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I think she would

5 have told because we had talked about all the

6 areas covered by your swim suit belong to

7 JonBenet. Not to anybody else. Mom can touch

8 those areas because, you know, and different

9 things, and Dr. Buff with mommy in the room,

10 those were the ground rules. Not daddy, not

11 Burke, not grampa, not anybody else but

12 JonBenet's, you know.


21 And I thought that was a really

22 great way to approach that, because, you know,

23 those little ones are -- there is boundaries,

24 you know. So JonBenet and I, I don't know,

25 maybe at bath time, maybe when I was putting on

0097

1 her bathing suit or something. You know, these

2 are JonBenet's private parts here, you know,

3 where the bathing suit touches and nobody ever

4 touches your private parts except mommy and

5 Dr. Buff with mommy in the room.

 

[Heymom]

Okay, did dr Beuf ever had reasons to check her down there or not?

IIRC it was stated that he never examined her down there?

But from PR I understand something else

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I think she would

5 have told because we had talked about all the

6 areas covered by your swim suit belong to

7 JonBenet. Not to anybody else. Mom can touch

8 those areas because, you know, and different

9 things, and Dr. Buff with mommy in the room,

10 those were the ground rules. Not daddy, not

11 Burke, not grampa, not anybody else but

12 JonBenet's, you know.


21 And I thought that was a really

22 great way to approach that, because, you know,

23 those little ones are -- there is boundaries,

24 you know. So JonBenet and I, I don't know,

25 maybe at bath time, maybe when I was putting on

0097

1 her bathing suit or something. You know, these

2 are JonBenet's private parts here, you know,

3 where the bathing suit touches and nobody ever

4 touches your private parts except mommy and

5 Dr. Buff with mommy in the room.

Dr. Beuf would have done a normal, external exam during her yearly physical, as Patsy said, with her in the room. He would have done an external exam if there was a rash, as well, or any other problems. He would not have done an internal exam on a 6-year-old unless there were *VERY* good reasons to do so, such as the suspicion of abuse, and at that point, he'd have had to report those suspicions to child authorities and JonBenet would have been at least temporarily removed from the home.

 

[madeleine]

quoting from the GJ thread

Conclusion
It is the belief of the investigative team that the evidence and information gathered to date strongly indicates the Ramsey’s have knowledge, involvement, and responsibility for the death of their daughter. The following is a reiteration of the points that head us to that opinion.

1) Prior vaginal trauma

 

[Magdalyn]

Okay, did dr Beuf ever had reasons to check her down there or not?

IIRC it was stated that he never examined her down there?

But from PR I understand something else

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I think she would

5 have told because we had talked about all the

6 areas covered by your swim suit belong to

7 JonBenet. Not to anybody else. Mom can touch

8 those areas because, you know, and different

9 things, and Dr. Buff with mommy in the room,

10 those were the ground rules. Not daddy, not

11 Burke, not grampa, not anybody else but

12 JonBenet's, you know.


21 And I thought that was a really

22 great way to approach that, because, you know,

23 those little ones are -- there is boundaries,

24 you know. So JonBenet and I, I don't know,

25 maybe at bath time, maybe when I was putting on

0097

1 her bathing suit or something. You know, these

2 are JonBenet's private parts here, you know,

3 where the bathing suit touches and nobody ever

4 touches your private parts except mommy and

5 Dr. Buff with mommy in the room.

Just jumping off this post as I've never seen this section of interview.

Odd that she felt the need to clarify on that "not anybody but mommy and Dr. Beuf" ...by naming three male relatives specifically. :thinking:

 

[otg]

Just jumping off this post as I've never seen this section of interview.

Odd that she felt the need to clarify on that "not anybody but mommy and Dr. Beuf" ...by naming three male relatives specifically. :thinking:

Very telling, don't you think, Magdalyn? I think (JMO) Patsy just completely made up that conversation for the benefit of those interviewing her to try and distance each of those three Ramseys from any sexual aspects of the case.

 

[sek4278]

Hi,

This interview segment -- was it immediately after they revealed to PR that there was prior sexual abuse? I really want to hear/see her reaction in the video and through all of the discussion of prior abuse. The transcript, which is new to me, seems like it would be critical...

 

[UKGuy]

Very telling, don't you think, Magdalyn? I think (JMO) Patsy just completely made up that conversation for the benefit of those interviewing her to try and distance each of those three Ramseys from any sexual aspects of the case.

otg,
LOL, ITA.

Not daddy, not Burke, not grampa

Wow, how about Grandma Nedra, her who has opinions about BR's lower anatomy?

.

 

[UKGuy]

As doc S stated recently (along time ago but recently on CBS doc) he was given a slide and confirmed microscopic bits of paint brush, Doc L agreed. Clearly this to them would not be what a deranged sexual (ninja like apparently) perv. would have done to her in the approximately 1:30min to 2 hours it would have required to accomplish everything that was said to have been done that night under the IDI theory. Thus conclusion is that the sexual abuse with the paintbrush was staged. This speaks only to the " Acute abuse" noted in ME report. ME report states Chronic abuse ( long term ) also. The chronic abuse has been disputed by some experts on the Ramsy side and all opinions can be found on acandyrose.com. Important to point out ME is only doctor who inspected physical body. Disputing opinions were offered by 'experts' (sarchasm here) who may not have seen anything more then ME report.

spitsthetruth,
Coroner Meyer during the autopsy cited Digital Penetration and Sexual Contact

That sounds like a bit more more than mere staging?

.

 

[Ambitioned]

Wow, how about Grandma Nedra, her who has opinions about BR's lower anatomy?

Oh Nedra. :doorhide: