Was Tommy really afraid to tell the truth?

[Dr. Know?]

Grandmaj, I went to Davidson Co. and it said they had changed to The TN SAVIN service (Formerly VINE) sponsored by the Davidson County Sheriff's Office. No luck on Joe yet. Here's the link. Not sure what link others are using.

http://www.nashville-sheriff.net/vine.htm

sorry for o/t

 

[thelmadawg]

This makes no sense to me. Why now? Why was he not scared of Joe today, but he was for the past 14 months?
I think maybe Tommy was scared, but, not of JO. I think there was someone arrested recently,that is presently in jail. Who is it? I have no clue! It can't be Ron because ToC knows Ron has been in jail for awhile now.

Maybe I've missed the point here, but the most logical to me is RON. He clearly stated he would kill whoever took, had, harmed Haleigh. He also had the swagger, size and demeanor to intimidate. ToC is a little guy, so is JO and then there's Misty.

If the accident/death occurred in the trailer, all of the above had RON to worry about.

 

[grandmaj]

Grandmaj, I went to Davidson Co. and it said they had changed to The TN SAVIN service (Formerly VINE) sponsored by the Davidson County Sheriff's Office. No luck on Joe yet. Here's the link. Not sure what link others are using.

http://www.nashville-sheriff.net/vine.htm

sorry for o/t

Doctor thank you. You really aren't off topic in that this thread relates to Joe and whether Tommy has reason to fear him. And he being not detained does factor into this I believe.

I think many of us have tried to watch the booking. Thank YOU.

 

[suspicious1]

I do believe Tommy and Misty both were very afraid of Joe Overstreet.

Most of the time the perp ruled by the fear factor. They either forced the person to participate in the crime and cover up and that way they could threaten them by saying if they told they would go down too. Or they threatened harm to them or their families if they told what they knew.

It didn't matter that JO lived in TN. There are no high concrete barrier walls sealing TN away from Satsuma and Tommy and Misty both knew if JO wanted to come back undetected he could do so or send a thuggy friend.

So yes I think it is very possible that they both were fearful. They were also fearful if they told what he had done they would be caught up in the middle of it too.

imo

You are absolutely right. The perp ruled by the fear factor But I will never be convinced that it was JO putting out that fear. Ron had no problem putting a dead rat in Tommy's mailbox. Wonder why Ron would do that? Seems like a threat don't it? -"If you snitch you die". Clearly that's what that meant, how else could you explain that little gesture? I would love to hear another explanation for it. And I totally agree with you about it not mattering that JO was in TN. Like you said there were no high concrete barrier sealing TN away from FL. Sooo..if Ron even suspected that JO was involved, he would've had no problem getting to TN in a New York minute...and he wouldn't have needed a ride, either.

IIRC Timmy and Chelsey left Florida shortly after their baby was born...


Tommy and Lindsey were planning to move to Tennessee, but didn't move to Tennessee because Tommy was arrested..
IIRC Hank and Lisa did move and when LE extradited her back to Florida, Hank went back to Florida.
As I see it all the Croslins wanted out of Florida so IF they feared anyone, it was someone who was in Florida not anyone living in Tennessee..JMO

Em, I had to reply to this too because I had been thinking the same thing. Tommy and Lindsey were going to move to TN...Doesn't look like they were too afraid of Jo -Hale, they wanted to move closer to him! The Croslins were trying to get the hale out of Satsuma. period. IMO, they were tryin' to run from the Cummings who are still located there...had it been JO, Tennessee would've been the last place Tommy would've wanted to move to...JO is located there. Jus sayin

I always kinda thought "that" Joe was housed separately from the others to protect him. Now I'm kinda wondering if it was to protect them from him.

Absolutely. IMO, Ron has been isolated from the rest of them for a reason. It wasn't to protect Ron...it was to protect Tommy from Ron.

JMO though

 

[TrialAddict]

Ron could easily get someone else ( one of his home boys ) to go after, Tommy's family. I am not sure I believe he would now, it would be too obvious IMO. I do think, Ron knows people that would do something like that for the right price or enough drugs.
Having said that I don't think Ron is a killer, he is all talk. AIMO. I am still on the fence about his involvement in Haleigh's death other then he has made many choice's pertaining to his lifestyle that may have contributed to her death. IMO

 

[txsvicki]

If LE believes Tommy's story then I'll eat my hat. Tommy is the one who is in jail, a recent reported thief, drug abuser, abuser of his dad, and according to Misty a pedophile who molested her in her youth when he was at least 6 years older than her and Joe. Those two would have much more reason to be afraid now than back when they were not in jail, because Joe is still not in jail. IMO they are both spineless cowards who are worried about their own selves and serving time for selling drugs with no regard for really telling what happened to Haleigh. Maybe they are even trying to get Joe murdered by vigilantes so that he won't tell what he knows about them first. The trailer was cleaned of any evidence, staged, and Misty waited until time for Ron to come home before calling anyone . If they were so terrified, how did they manage to get all that done after just witnessing the murder of a child. Tommy can't prove that Haleigh died at the lake, so now he's changing it to the trailer. Hogwash.

 

[dodie20]

I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think Misty had much to do with the staging. That whole set up stinks of Tommy. But Ron needs to be added to the spineless coward list, who won't tell the truth. He knows exactly what went down that night. It was his kid, his gf, his trailer, his illegal activities that led up to this, his fight with Joe over the gun, & most of all, his cover-up.

 

[Tinsel]

ToC and MC are on the hook for the murder, as I don't think they could ever prove "fear of Joe" and thereby make him look like he acted alone in all this. Anyway, MC says that she was hiding out in the bedroom (according to Flo), and now ToC says that he was in the livingroom while JO went into the bedroom where Haleigh was sleeping--so yet another lie in action by the siblings. :twocents:

 

[4Jacy]

I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think Misty had much to do with the staging. That whole set up stinks of Tommy. But Ron needs to be added to the spineless coward list, who won't tell the truth. He knows exactly what went down that night. It was his kid, his gf, his trailer, his illegal activities that led up to this, his fight with Joe over the gun, & most of all, his cover-up.

Spot on! Exactly what I think. Just by the way Ron acted when he came home tells it all. But I'm O/T, sorry.

IF Tommy had been so afraid of Joe, how was he protecting his wife and children the entire year prior to his arrest. Was he protecting them when he was slumpted over the wheel of his car (on drugs), when he was out theiving in the night? Was he protecting them when he had his druggie mother and father AND Misty's druggie friend Nay Nay staying at his house? Was he protecting them when he stole a beer from the convenience store and the police had to chase him through the woods?

The only thing Tommy is afraid of is what is going to happen to him! :banghead:

 

[epiphany]

Yes, ToC was and may still be afraid to speak the truth about what his role was in the events leading up to the homicide and disposal of the body, but not because JO was a physical threat to To's family. The real fear ToC had been grappling with was the loss of his wife (divorce) and family (doing time if charged) due to the consequences he believed he would face as a result of his actions and/or participation in the events of that evening and after (failure to tell the truth until "April"). Evidently, ToC has inserted himself on the scene from start to finish. Seems he was in the MH, in the transport vehicle (likely) and at the dock.

In order to believe ToC's explanation of fear of JO harming his family as the explanation of why he failed to be truthful prior to April, I must make an effort to enter ToC's world and, when I do, I must suspend rational thinking and logic. I don't have a problem with that. I have to do that for most of the players anyway since my life experiences are dissimilar.

Weapon of Intimidation, Homicide, Body to Dock>JO did it>JO lives in TN - I am terrified of JO. Therefore, I do not report the events of that evening to the police, not even within a reasonable amount of time after, because I am terrified of what Joe might do to my family.

OK, I've got that.

Headless Rat in Mailbox>Ron did it>Ron lives in Area - I am terrified of Ron. Therefore, I report the rat-in-my-mailbox to the police because I'm terrified of Ron and what Ron might do to me.

OK, I've got that.

Irrational - not a problem.

Why do I report a headless rat in my mailbox to the police, but not the true events surrounding the homicide? After all, I am traumatized after the events I have witnessed, and paralyzed by fear of harm to my family from JO.

Perhaps, because ToC is not really afraid of Ron - that's why he reported the Ratty, but not the terrifying events of that evening. Well, until or unless, or in case R or Linds begin to wonder whether ToC had some role, even an eyewitness one, in the events of that evening. After all, the Ratty-In-My-Mailbox incident is small by comparison to the events of that evening.

ToC was not afraid of Ron, per se, any more than it is likely that he was afraid of JO harming his family. After all, ToC knew he was in the MH, in the vehicle (likely) and at the dock. ToC was/is afraid, but of the consequences of his role in the events and actions of that evening which in his mind might result in the loss of his wife and family were he to tell the truth. His fears were/are directly related to any consequences he believed he could face.

 

[cj1132]

ToC and MC are on the hook for the murder, as I don't think they could ever prove "fear of Joe" and thereby make him look like he acted alone in all this. Anyway, MC says that she was hiding out in the bedroom (according to Flo), and now ToC says that he was in the livingroom while JO went into the bedroom where Haleigh was sleeping--so yet another lie in action by the siblings. :twocents:

According to ToC's attorney, MV & ToC are basically telling the same story now. That means one or both of these stories is untrue (no surprise) and maybe the true story hasn't been told yet to the public but has been told to LE. Time will tell. If I'm not correct on who I think is involved, to quote RC, "so be it." All I know for sure is that I want the right person or persons convicted for the murder of Haleigh Cummings.

 

[Quiche]

I wonder if Lindsy still has some of that tax money left? For $750.08 she could scoop up her children's father... looks like that to me anyway.

http://www.sjso.org/inmate_search_warrants.aspx

Something is benefiting Tommy, I guess. <<Misty writhes and hisses some more>>

 

[Dr. Know?]

Quiche! How the heck are you?

Tommy still has this one problem in Putnam that has zero bond.

812.014-2a1 LARC GRAND 1ST DEGREE 100K DOLS MORE OR LEO SEMI F F $0.00

http://public.pcso.us/jail/bookingDetails.aspx?SYSID=758545&IMG=59423

 

[Tinsel]

I think RC supplied the drugs. Whatever he contributed to that night's insanity--he doesn't want it talked about. I think the other 3 are involved in the disappearance of Haleigh equally, all three cousins. I don't think Grandma Flo is fearful of JO--so I doubt MC or ToC are either.

 

[MvD]

I've been turning so many thoughts over in my head since last night that they're all lying there like a pile of mulch. I'm very clear on one thing, though. Tommy was not afraid of physical harm from Joe to him or his family. I think he was afraid of losing Lindsy, and I like My-tee-mouse's point about blackmail. But maniacal cousin Joe? Joe, the crazy-eyed killa who bursts into a house demanding a gun and leaves behind a dead little girl, paralyzing his cousins with fear yet fifteen months later hasn't even been issued a ticket for jaywalking? Pfffft!! It's interesting to note that if we substituted Ron's name for Joe's in this tale, I'd have no problem at all believing it.

BBM I was thinking the EXACT same thing...

 

[Quiche]

Quiche! How the heck are you?

Tommy still has this one problem in Putnam that has zero bond.

812.014-2a1 LARC GRAND 1ST DEGREE 100K DOLS MORE OR LEO SEMI F F $0.00

http://public.pcso.us/jail/bookingDetails.aspx?SYSID=758545&IMG=59423

Hi Dr.! Guess those pesky burglary charges slipped my mind, lol. :crazy: I'm on the lookout for any of this baloney to pay off!

Tommy telling the "truth" right now just stinks to high heaven!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

It's interesting to note that if we substituted Ron's name for Joe's in this tale, I'd have no problem at all believing it.

I find this to be a fascinating statement. If LE had any indication that RC lied about his alibi, he would have jumped to the top of the suspect list. Certainly, LE has to have looked at the whole timeline issues (as Misty's story was not believable from the get-go); LE would have had to verify Ron's whereabouts based on witnesses at work, surveillance photos, cell phone pings, etc.; they would have had the AC guy as a witness to help establish the time line; they have forensics from the trailer, etc. If RC was involved, it would have been in Misty and Tommy's best interest to have thrown him under the bus a long time ago. As the natural parent, if he was Haleigh's killer, he would go to jail for life. No need to be afraid of him at all. Even if Misty was blinded by love, Tommy was certainly not. At best, if Misty and Tommy were present when a parent killed Haleigh, they would be witnesses or perhaps accessories who could have quickly and easily turned on RC to help themselves.

The only thing that makes sense is that they were present when Haleigh was murdered (not dead by accident) and can't prove who did or did not do it and/or she died in a situation that would be felony murder and put all of them in prison for life or on death row. As it stands right now, we can see the three of them (Misty, Joe and Tommy) are in a finger-pointing game. There would be no need to do that unless they knew RC could prove he wasn't at the mobile home after Haleigh was last seen alive. To top it off, no DA would let Tommy, Misty and Joe be held up as the perpetrators if there was an idea that the natural parent was responsible. I just don't see why, given the turn the case has taken, that people are still convinced that RC is some kind of criminal mastermind that has enthralled Misty and Tommy and LE. The guy is in prison for drug dealing. He's not a threat to anyone but himself anymore.

 

[TrialAddict]

There are a few ways, Ron could be directly responsible for Haleigh death imo. He could have injured her before work and she died from an injury, he could have told Misty to give her something to force her to go to sleep, he could have left something laying on the table that Haleigh got into. Is his lunch hour account for? Maybe he went home and Haleigh was still up giving Misty a hard time, Ron hit her then went back to work. Just a few things that could point to Ron. I am not saying I believe any of them just why I think he could still be a suspect

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Now, to why Tommy should be afraid: felony murder.

A far lesser-known offense is felony murder and its counterpart, attempted felony murder. Felony murder occurs when two or more people commit a dangerous felony together, such as an armed robbery or a burglary. During the course of that felony, a person is killed. Those involved in the commission of the felony may be charged with felony murder - even if they had no role in the killing. For example, if Alfred, Byron, and Christopher decide to hold up a local convenience store armed with semiautomatic weapons, they are committing armed robbery. Imagine that as Byron and Christopher are fleeing the store with stolen cash and Twinkies, Alfred turns around and shoots the clerk, Gustav, so that he cannot identify the robbers later. If Gustav dies, Alfred could be charged with murder, and Byron and Christopher could both face felony murder charges - despite the fact that they did not act to kill Gustav. If Gustav was seriously wounded but did not actually die, Alfred could be charged with attempted murder, while Byron and Christopher could be charged with attempted felony murder. Felony murder is often punished almost as severely as murder itself, although the death penalty is not available for a conviction of felony murder in Florida.

http://miamicriminallawyersblog.com/2009/05/floridas-felony-murder-rule.html

Let's postulate that Joe, Misty and Tommy were present and involved in committing a dangerous crime when Haleigh died and that one of the three murdered her. (That crime might have been drug trafficking, theft, burglary or worse--see below.) Thus, if Haleigh was killed or murdered as a result of the crime, all three could be charged with felony murder.

Now, one of the most serious felonies in Florida is "lewd and lascivious molestation":

Life Felony: It is a life felony if a person over the age of 18 commits Lewd and Lascivious Molestation on a child under the age of 12.

Life Felony Penalties
A first time offender charged with Lewd and Lascivious Molestation punishable as a life felony would be facing:
&#8226;A maximum sentence of life in prison, and
A minimum sentence sentence of twenty-five (25) years in prison followed by probation or community control for the remainder of the person's natural life.
http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/battery/index.html#Reclassified

So just molesting Haleigh would have meant a life sentence for the perpetrator. If she had been badly injured or killed in the act, and the perpetrator implicated the other two as part of the assault (e.g., giving the molester access or permission)--felony murder, again. Such an assault would mean multiple charges for the rape of a child and murder. That looks like the death penalty to me.

Now, let's think about how this scenario fits into Misty's various stories. Early on in the case, she said that she had been molested by Joe and Tommy. What if the grain of truth in this story is that there was a molestation, but it wasn't Misty; it was Haleigh. And both Joe and Tommy were involved. If Haleigh was badly injured or died, or if one of the perpetrators decided she had to be killed to cover up the assault--well, all three of them were on the hook for murder. There would be no explaining to RC or LE why Misty didn't stop the assault or call 911.

This scenario also fits with Junior's story (seeing a man take Haleigh and seeing the "bouncing couch," which could have been either a sexual assault on Haleigh or her murder.) It fits with the need to change sheets, talk about washing bedding, and Misty's confusion about what Haleigh was wearing. It fits with the blood in the van, the van being moved, and the damage on the vehicle. It fits with the rope and cinder blocks and the need to stage the crime scene. It fits with Misty's decision not to talk to Ron (she was partying earlier and then there was dealing with what happened to Haleigh). It fits with the decision to wait until RC came home to call 911, because it needed to look like Misty just woke up. If Ron had been involved, it would have worked better as an alibi for him to get an emergency call at work, to cement the alibi.

I suppose that Joe O. could just be a crazed homicidal maniac who was thwarted in stealing a gun. But that story is, I think, the last desperate lie that Tommy and Misty are telling to cover up whatever it is that all three of them were involved in that night.

 

[Kat]

This thread is for those who wish to discuss whether it makes sense that Tommy says he was too afraid to tell the truth about what happened to Haleigh.

Why was he afraid?

Does it makes sense that he says he was afraid?

Could Joe really be a threat to Tommy's family?

I haven't read the thread yet so I apologize. My response is to Kimster's quesions above.

Why is he afraid? IMHO he's afraid to tell his actual role that night because in doing so he knows that he could face charges that would get him even more jail time than he's looking at right now. Before he was in jail he didn't tell on himself because he didn't want to go to jail.
IMHO he is involved in one way or another with the disappearance of Haleigh (before or after her death). Another thing is if he implicates himself he thought he might possibily lose his marriage and children.

Does it make sense that he's afraid? Yes in consideration of what I think above sure he is---afraid of the consequences.

Is joe a threat to Tommy's family? nope. I see Joe as a tough buy wannabe sure to soon be felon if he keeps up his activities. (drugs, guns, etc. if those are accurately reported). Joe appears to me to be full of himself and full of hot air ---for now---give him 5 - 7 yrs and he might just be exactly the image he has tried hard to portray.

Another question. Was Joe there that night? (not Kimsters question but my own. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure if he went along for the ride or not. all of the above is JMHO.