UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[iamshadow21]

good points. I am also wondering now about the processes of the case files handed to the cps such as whats the bar for handing them a case file and then what does the cps do with it ? obvioulsy the police wont hand them nothing but would then the cps look at it and either agree or not with the police's line?


spot on as always. have to say I really agree with doc evans here as well as it seemed to me her pattern would have been escalatory in nature.

'One thing we can be reasonably sure of is that Lucy Letby did not turn up to work one day and decide to inject a baby with air into their bloodstream,' Dr Evans said. 'I think the modus operandi evolved over time and I think that prior to air embolus tube displacement was probably something that she did.'

Prosecutors are looking at charging Lucy Letby with MORE baby murders

Detectives investigating Lucy Letby have passed a file of new evidence to prosecutors for advice on whether she should be charged with more crimes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

To me, all in all and imo i really do think the question of if she wanted to be caught is worth asking.

This kind of offender never wants to get caught. Their whole life revolves around acts of sadism and violence. The power and control over life and death is addictive, and they only crave it more and need to keep escalating to reach the same high. To only look at Letby in her last year of actively harming babies is to look at her at her most extreme and reckless. In the years preceding, I am certain there were other deaths and many, many instances of harm and abuse. They were just more spread out and more subtle.

MOO

 

[Parker Knoll]

Totally agree @iamshadow21

 

[Dotta]

Every day brings new updates...

"On Tuesday
the force announced three former senior managers at the Countess of Chester had been arrested
on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter
and had been bailed pending further enquiries.

On Wednesday,
news broke that a 'full file of evidence' had been handed by the Operation Hummingbird team to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)
for a decision on whether to bring fresh charges against Letby.

In response,
her barrister Mr McDonald said
the evidence of her innocence was 'overwhelming'.

'We will cross every bridge when we get to it
but if Lucy is charged
I know we have a whole army of internationally renowned medical experts
who will totally undermine the prosecution's unfounded allegations',
he added."

Who is Lucy Letby and why is her case back in the news? - BBC News

The criminal investigation into the neonatal nurse has been continuing behind the scenes.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[mummyshark]

Every day brings new updates...

"On Tuesday
the force announced three former senior managers at the Countess of Chester had been arrested
on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter
and had been bailed pending further enquiries.

On Wednesday,
news broke that a 'full file of evidence' had been handed by the Operation Hummingbird team to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)
for a decision on whether to bring fresh charges against Letby.

In response,
her barrister Mr McDonald said
the evidence of her innocence was 'overwhelming'.

'We will cross every bridge when we get to it
but if Lucy is charged
I know we have a whole army of internationally renowned medical experts
who will totally undermine the prosecution's unfounded allegations',
he added."

Who is Lucy Letby and why is her case back in the news? - BBC News

The criminal investigation into the neonatal nurse has been continuing behind the scenes.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

Can he make that claim? Presumably he's not yet privy to the evidence behind the allegations?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Nope but it doesn’t stop him !

 

[joltz]

Every day brings new updates...

"On Tuesday
the force announced three former senior managers at the Countess of Chester had been arrested
on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter
and had been bailed pending further enquiries.

On Wednesday,
news broke that a 'full file of evidence' had been handed by the Operation Hummingbird team to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)
for a decision on whether to bring fresh charges against Letby.

In response,
her barrister Mr McDonald said
the evidence of her innocence was 'overwhelming'.

'We will cross every bridge when we get to it
but if Lucy is charged
I know we have a whole army of internationally renowned medical experts
who will totally undermine the prosecution's unfounded allegations',
he added."

Who is Lucy Letby and why is her case back in the news? - BBC News

The criminal investigation into the neonatal nurse has been continuing behind the scenes.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

Wow he's good. He already knows the allegations are unfounded.

 

[May72031]

Some of the responses from the online Lucy Letby fanclub are deranged.

I see Peter Hitchens has a new article out brimming with complete guff. John Sweeney and Phil Hammond also doubling down again. They've doubled down so much you need to include the "E" (exponent) symbol in the result.

 

[Furore]

Well the truth will out and justice for the families and the victims is being sought thank goodness.

I’m glad progress is being made despite the publicity circus.

 

[Sweeper2000]

just guess work here but I would say that the files handed to the cps recently would likely have a high degree of relevance to the previous files, it is operation hummingbird or those involved with it that was researching for more right? i might be wrong but I would guess they know what to look for and what would likely be admitted by the cps so I would expect these to be quite serious and likely to be admitted by the cps. i would say expect more charges. jmo

 

[JosieJo]

just guess work here but I would say that the files handed to the cps recently would likely have a high degree of relevance to the previous files, it is operation hummingbird or those involved with it that was researching for more right? i might be wrong but I would guess they know what to look for and what would likely be admitted by the cps so I would expect these to be quite serious and likely to be admitted by the cps. i would say expect more charges. jmo

That makes sense...I'd hope aswell that by going public on it they feel they have a realistic chance

 

[joltz]

just guess work here but I would say that the files handed to the cps recently would likely have a high degree of relevance to the previous files, it is operation hummingbird or those involved with it that was researching for more right? i might be wrong but I would guess they know what to look for and what would likely be admitted by the cps so I would expect these to be quite serious and likely to be admitted by the cps. i would say expect more charges. jmo

I would definitely expect more charges. Judging on what happened last time they passed a file to the CPS on Letby. Cheshire police know what they are doing

 

[Sweeper2000]

just a thought. it would be a interesting, damning and fortifying thing if she does get convicted for these. It would further push her into the realm of undoubtedly guilty as it would provide what was noted as missing at her first trial ie a history of this behaviour preceding the sudden turn in 2015 providing context. it would add another damning layer to her history.

 

[Marantz4250b]

just a thought. it would be a interesting, damning and fortifying thing if she does get convicted for these. It would further push her into the realm of undoubtedly guilty as it would provide what was noted as missing at her first trial ie a history of this behaviour preceding the sudden turn in 2015 providing context. it would add another damning layer to her history.

I would normally agree. The problem is that what you say is normal, rational and sensible.

Her supporters are drifting ever more toward completely irrational and unfounded conspiracy theories, though, and the further people get into that the more entrenched they become in their beliefs. It's like religion, it becomes an article of faith, rather than a rational assessment of the facts.

Indeed, additional convictions many just end up bolstering their beliefs because they'll see it as her continuing to be fitted up by the state. In fact whichever way it goes her supporters will always claim that it points to her being innocent.

Personally, even though I've said previously that I'm not sure that bringing ever more charges against her maybe are not in the public interest, on one level I hope they do just to see how many of these "experts" actually put their reputations where their mouths are and are willing to stare down the barrel of a prosecution KC in sustained fire mode! My prediction on that is a number roughly between none and zero.

 

[Tortoise]

just a thought. it would be a interesting, damning and fortifying thing if she does get convicted for these. It would further push her into the realm of undoubtedly guilty as it would provide what was noted as missing at her first trial ie a history of this behaviour preceding the sudden turn in 2015 providing context. it would add another damning layer to her history.

Hopefully no more of this nonsense -

Mr Myers refers to Facebook searches. [...]

He says the searches by Letby also demonstrate an interest for parents of babies not on the indictment.
Mr Myers says that is "important", and Letby is seen as somebody who looks up names regularly.

He says of Letby's 2,318 Facebook searches, "only 31" related to parents' names on the indictment. [...]

Mr Myers refers to handover sheets. [...]

Letby had said, in cross-examination, she accumulated the paperwork, not its contents.
Mr Myers asks if the jury don't think this accumulation is "random", what is the prosecution's case for them? He says if Letby had handover sheets and only handover sheets relating to babies on the indictment, that would be significant, but a total of 257 handover were found, with 21 relating to babies on the indictment - "less than 10 per cent".

[...] a nurse who "decided to kill children" or "tried to kill them" for reasons "which make no sense" and "out of the blue".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 26 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

interesting words by mr myers there as imo little about those years made sense without someone being culpable which was one fo the things that made me think she was guilty and someone was responsible. Indeed very little made sense about LL at all. I also think that even if ten percent of the total amount of HO sheets were to do with babies in very questionable events then that is enough to be suspicious at least.

 

[Parker Knoll]

That’s interesting @Tortoise as I had quite forgotten that statistic.
I’m guessing that all the other names on the handovers were re examined - horrific if they are connected with what MAY form new charges IF that indeed happens.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

That’s interesting @Tortoise as I had quite forgotten that statistic.
I’m guessing that all the other names on the handovers were re examined - horrific if they are connected with what MAY form new charges IF that indeed happens.
JMO

And this...

One of the days, November 5, 2015, there are nine searches in nine minutes. Most are social and two are the names of mothers of children from Liverpool Women's Hospital neonatal unit.
Letby says it would not be unusual for her to make several searches in a few minutes on somebody on Facebook. "That would be normal for me".

As an example, on June 9, 2015, in addition to a search for the mother's name of Child A and Child B, Letby carried out searches for three social contacts, two staffing colleagues - Ashleigh Hudson and David Harkness, and the name of a mother from a child from Liverpool Women's Hospital neonatal unit.
Letby says, for the various searches, they were people "on my mind" at that moment.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

He says Letby had said: "I carry a lot of babies around in my head."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 1 - prosecution and defence closing speeches

The retrial of Lucy Letby, who stands accused of attempting to murder baby girl Child K, continues at Manchester Crown Court today (Monday, July 1).

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

That’s so chilling knowing how things have moved forward and indeed COULD result in charges.
JMO

 

[marynnu]

And this...

One of the days, November 5, 2015, there are nine searches in nine minutes. Most are social and two are the names of mothers of children from Liverpool Women's Hospital neonatal unit.
Letby says it would not be unusual for her to make several searches in a few minutes on somebody on Facebook. "That would be normal for me".

As an example, on June 9, 2015, in addition to a search for the mother's name of Child A and Child B, Letby carried out searches for three social contacts, two staffing colleagues - Ashleigh Hudson and David Harkness, and the name of a mother from a child from Liverpool Women's Hospital neonatal unit.
Letby says, for the various searches, they were people "on my mind" at that moment.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

He says Letby had said: "I carry a lot of babies around in my head."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 1 - prosecution and defence closing speeches

The retrial of Lucy Letby, who stands accused of attempting to murder baby girl Child K, continues at Manchester Crown Court today (Monday, July 1).

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I have always found the phrase 'I carry a lot of babies around in my head' extremely creepy.

 

[Sweeper2000]

This kind of offender never wants to get caught. Their whole life revolves around acts of sadism and violence. The power and control over life and death is addictive, and they only crave it more and need to keep escalating to reach the same high. To only look at Letby in her last year of actively harming babies is to look at her at her most extreme and reckless. In the years preceding, I am certain there were other deaths and many, many instances of harm and abuse. They were just more spread out and more subtle.

MOO

you know I think there may be a grey area here, although not related to guilt. What if she wanted to be caught but not have to admit it? some aspect of a conscience that slips through, a voice that circles around in her mind. To me its just fitting for what seems a really mixed up person. Lots of stuff she did and the way she did it just made me think its so unusual. I can think of many instances where people would prefer to cling onto their self image rather than fully confront the issue. a fragmented and contentious mind. I dont think i ever got the impression of sadism from her seemed more like indifference to me which is weird.