Watching Motions Hearing Live on Friday 10-10-08

[DianeB]

Testing the Evidence: Neither side gave Judge Strickland enough information on the diminishing quantity to test argument. Theory is one thing, but in this case is there enough of the sample to re-test. The maker of the motion has the burden of proof to carry the motion. Baez is in a catch 22 because he doesn't have enough information about those tests yet to see the quantities left. Judge Strickland may deny the motion without prejudice, he may bring it again, or Judge Strickland may defer judgement and allow Mr. Baez to amend. Either way, he won't allow defense to interfere with the ongoing investigation. However, prosecution takes a risk here. If there isn't enough to re-test, they could lose having that evidence at trial.

Just my thoughts. Any comments?

Why would the prosecution be in danger of having the forensics ruled inadmissible if the defense delayed requesting access to it for two months and during that time, the samples were used up?

Baez was not unaware that evidence was recovered from the car - it was noted at the bond hearing in July.

If he decided to wait until October to request samples for his own testing, and in the meantime that evidence was used up in the testing process, why should the state be penalized because he was remiss?

 

[BostonSu]

Even if casey doesn't trust le, (as was told to us earlier in the investigation; and she wanted the fbi involved), she never pursued an active case with the fbi!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

She trusted LE enough to sleep with half the force though. Her sudden distrust seems like a convenient excuse.

 

[karenc333]

Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

ALLLLLLL this time, and she hasn't shown the slightest interest in "finding" her child. Now, JUST as homicide charges are about to be filed.....

I believe he filed the motions prior to the state wanting to present their evidence to the grand jury. And we all really don't know what her interest is in finding her child, we can only assume. Again, I believe that if there is anything that can be done to find Caylee alive, it should be done. JMO

 

[Chezhire]

Again, that is what I'm really confused by. So legally, he could have had those all along but just wasn't given the info by the state?

Miracles and I are both saying that JB hasn't asked PROPERLY. There is a Code of Evidence and a Code of Procedure he must follow, else he gets nada. Personally, I think he expected a gratuitous "open file" discovery, to which he is NOT entitled. Go here for my lengthy explanation.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799743#post2799743

 

[Themis]

Why would the prosecution be in danger of having the forensics ruled inadmissible if the defense delayed requesting access to it for two months and during that time, the samples were used up?

Baez was not unaware that evidence was recovered from the car - it was noted at the bond hearing in July.

If he decided to wait until October to request samples for his own testing, and in the meantime that evidence was used up in the testing process, why should the state be penalized because he was remiss?

I think what you said is fair, but there is case law out there that if the samples collected are big enough to allow defense testing, but were not saved so defense could test them and there aren't more replacement samples, then the prosecution can't introduce the evidence. Other case law takes a slightly different twist on the terms and conditions of defense access to samples and testing. So, there's no black letter law on this as of yet. It will depend on controlling case law in that jurisdiction. So, rather than delve into that, I just said there is a risk of evidence exclusion. When there are tiny or disappearing samples, prosecution has to be aware of this and guide the investigation accordingly.

 

[Gin]

I believe he filed the motions prior to the state wanting to present their evidence to the grand jury. And we all really don't know what her interest is in finding her child, we can only assume. Again, I believe that if there is anything that can be done to find Caylee alive, it should be done. JMO

Actually we do know.

Question: What date/time did KC finally report tiny Caylee missing?

Answer: She never bothered to even so much as pick up the phone and make a report.

Months down the road, she wants a little space from home confinement to do some searching?? I don't think so. I'll leave this to the FBI, LE and Equusearch.

 

[Themis]

Good prosecutors are also concerned about protecting the record, making sure defense discovery requirements are met and then some, and moving the case forward; just like the judges.

 

[Chillout1989]

Even if casey doesn't trust le, (as was told to us earlier in the investigation; and she wanted the fbi involved), she never pursued an active case with the fbi!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

She trusted LE enough to sleep with half the force though. Her sudden distrust seems like a convenient excuse.

Hahahahahah! Sounds right to me! Thus, she should NOT be let out to do her search; regardless whether or not is done in "secret"! She should just tell LE/JB/FBI where she is!!!!!!

 

[legallee]

She trusted LE enough to sleep with half the force though. Her sudden distrust seems like a convenient excuse.

:clap::clap::clap:That cracked me up! :clap::clap::clap:

 

[Chezhire]

Why would the prosecution be in danger of having the forensics ruled inadmissible if the defense delayed requesting access to it for two months and during that time, the samples were used up?

Baez was not unaware that evidence was recovered from the car - it was noted at the bond hearing in July.

If he decided to wait until October to request samples for his own testing, and in the meantime that evidence was used up in the testing process, why should the state be penalized because he was remiss?

ITA! This is what I've been saying on this thread all day - he didn't ask early enough if he really thinks they're entitled to it despite the fact that no bill of information/indictment has been filed for murder or anything having to do with Caylee's death. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799743#post2799743

 

[*lore621*]

Most parents would agree: Their child's safety comes before the parent's life, if need be.

In a heartbeat and without a second thought, I would give my life for the life of my child. There is no greater love.

 

[elfie]

I know it's a longshot, but what's to prevent KC from sneaking out of JB's office (hiding in car, whatever) and tampering with evidence anyway? She's not on GPS and she and JB are devious enough to do it. Just in my opinion. She should have a tracking device. LE doesn't have tabs on her movements once she enters JB's office. They're giving her too much leeway as it is.

I think it would be great if Strickland, when he makes his decision Monday, agrees with JB that KC is vulnerable to the public (threats) and says because of this not only is he going to deny her motion to *search* but he is containing her visits to attorney to uh, maybe one day a week. Ha ha!

We're positive there is no underground tunnel connected to his office?

 

[LeLe1953]

I thought JB did horrible in presenting his case today. It was painful to listen to him. He sounded so ill prepared. On the other hand, I thought the state did a very good job.
Listening to JB in court is like nails on a chalk board. Since KC wasn't with her lawyer today, I wonder if she has asked to meet with him over the weekend.
I hope she hasn't packed a bag yet for her "private" searches. I don't think that will be ruled on before the grand jury comes back with a murder charge.
To me, the fact the GJ is even meeting on this case is reason enough to deny, deny, deny the motion. :behindbar

 

[Chezhire]

I believe he filed the motions prior to the state wanting to present their evidence to the grand jury. And we all really don't know what her interest is in finding her child, we can only assume. Again, I believe that if there is anything that can be done to find Caylee alive, it should be done. JMO

I think you're right, and I believe he knew prior to filing his motions that the state was preparing to take it to a GJ, in fact, I think that was his motivation for finally getting off his tail and doing some real legal work.

 

[Gma Kat]

ITA! This is what I've been saying on this thread all day - he didn't ask early enough if he really thinks they're entitled to it despite the fact that no bill of information/indictment has been filed for murder or anything having to do with Caylee's death. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799743#post2799743

I could be wrong but I thought the state HAD TO preserve part of a sample for defense testing in case the matter does go to trial....I remember during the OJ case that the blood samples had been split so many times there was nothing viable left to test...

 

[Janis396]

Even if casey doesn't trust le, (as was told to us earlier in the investigation; and she wanted the fbi involved), she never pursued an active case with the fbi!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

She trusted LE enough to sleep with half the force though. Her sudden distrust seems like a convenient excuse.

SOOOOOO true! :clap:

 

[Chezhire]

I think what you said is fair, but there is case law out there that if the samples collected are big enough to allow defense testing, but were not saved so defense could test them and there aren't more replacement samples, then the prosecution can't introduce the evidence. Other case law takes a slightly different twist on the terms and conditions of defense access to samples and testing. So, there's no black letter law on this as of yet. It will depend on controlling case law in that jurisdiction. So, rather than delve into that, I just said there is a risk of evidence exclusion. When there are tiny or disappearing samples, prosecution has to be aware of this and guide the investigation accordingly.

Agreed...so...any FL lawyers with us who want to enlighten the rest of us on the current state of the law in your parts re: testing and samples??? Pretty please???

 

[jennyb]

Themis, I have a question on your very thoughtful post, if it hasn't already been asked. Can the Judge revise (limit) the amount of time at JB's office without the State requesting? Can he do this on his own initiative? I know the State questioned it repeatedly but did not ask him directly to revise or give reasons why a revision should be made.

It's obvious to all logical thinkers that the visitation schedule is excessive and flaunts the home confinement standard for most if not all -- but will the Judge actually do anything about it without prompting? Thanks.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I just truly believe that if Caylee is alive, there is a whole lot more to this story than any of us are aware and that Casey has been involved with the wrong people and has reasons to be afraid. JMO

ok...the "wrong people", meaning everyone except KC CA Lee - have talked to police, have given interviews, given their cell phones to LE, might I add, without having to be forced to by a search warrant - so with all of the cell records checked out by LE and all those people checked out by LE, who are you referring to as the "wrong people"?

 

[Chezhire]

In a heartbeat and without a second thought, I would give my life for the life of my child. There is no greater love.

Aye aye.