weekend break: discuss the latest here #125

[DairyGirl]

In fairness, we have no evidence that the DT has engaged in helping the defendant "spin her tale." I, for one, am completely convinced that this nonsensical defense is purely the product of the defendant. She simply passed her "defense strategy" on to this team of public defenders, who are now doing the very best they can to work with a purely farcical strategy. Unless I see solid evidence to the contrary, I am unwilling to brand the DT as unethical. Nor can I imagine them to be truly so stupid as to believe that the "self-defense" fantasy coupled with abused and battered women's syndrome was a good idea. I remain convinced this is the product of Arias' fevered imagination, as witnessed by the what I believe to be fraudulent and self-serving "journal" entries which she completed long before this defense team came into the picture. She's stuck with her silly plan, and now she's stuck Nurmi and Wilmott with it as well.

Now, as to the question of whether or not they are using every bit of their legal skill to make that nonsense work, I say yes, they are doing that every day. It's their job. I don't have any difficulty recognizing that that is not going to make them many friends, particularly here in a victim-friendly forum. But it doesn't make them unethical. And as sleuthers, we have an obligation to demand proof before we suggest that they are crossing that line.

Always just my opinion.

:cow:

I could buy that they are just doing their job and going with what JA told them, but my empathy ended when they started to malign Travis and accuse him of being a pedophile and abuser. Even if it was JA's defense doesn't mean they had to go along with that. That had to know that thrashing the victim had the very real possibility of blowing up in their faces and making their client look worse then she already did. I thought lawyer's weren't allowed to lie in court? Obviously they are lying and they know they are lying about Travis. There is not one iota of evidence that Travis was either of those things.

 

[gngr~snap]

Jodi's phone was as indispensable as air to her. No way she'd be without one for more than the time it took to beg/borrow/steal another. I bet the time she forced herself to keep her phone turned off on June 4 set an all-time record for her.

I'd second that!

 

[Sleuth5]

I could buy that they are just doing their job and going with what JA told them, but my empathy ended when they started to malign Travis and accuse him of being a pedophile and abuser. Even if it was JA's defense doesn't mean they had to go along with that. That had to know that thrashing the victim had the very real possibility of blowing up in their faces and making their client look worse then she already did. I thought lawyer's weren't allowed to lie in court? Obviously they are lying and they know they are lying about Travis. There is not one iota of evidence that Travis was either of those things.

I don't disagree with you, but I maintain that the pedophilia and abuse accusations did not come from the DT. They come from Jodi, and it is she who should bear the blame. The DT cannot simply refuse to do their jobs. Nurmi did try to remove himself from this case, and as his specialty is sexual abuse, my suspicion is because he knew it was a specious claim.

I do not disagree at all that they knew this would not be a productive defense for her and might actually be detrimental. I cannot believe they did not tell her that. After watching her in court for all this time, reading her statements and seeing her interview videos, it is simply not difficult for me to believe that she is simply that self-absorbed and invested in her own alternate reality. I can't lay that on the DT, for the reasons I posted earlier, because I will not ascribe unethical conduct to them without evidence.

Anyway, just :cow:

 

[DebinGA]

Folks, Don't know if this post will be allowed here but I just came across this narrations on YouTube regarding the sequence of events that took place on that fateful day of June 4th, 2008. It really puts in perspective how Arias committed this atrocious crime and how her OWN words in the Police Interrogation tie in to the FACTS of this case. It is really something to watch.

http://youtu.be/7mXlwTZoMzQ

Just started watching this and saw something new - Jodi telling Flores that Travis was "kneeling down" in the shower. I can so imagine her forcing him to beg her forgiveness on bended knee and then plunging the knife in his heart. Now back to watching....

 

[Sleuth5]

Just started watching this and saw something new - Jodi telling Flores that Travis was "kneeling down" in the shower. I can so imagine her forcing him to beg her forgiveness on bended knee and then plunging the knife in his heart. Now back to watching....

I remember that line as well. Sounds just like something she might do.

 

[kaRN]

She asks Travis to sit down after taking some photos. In the last photo of Travis (alive) he is sitting in that shower area. She starts to stab him while he is in that most vulnerable of positions. He somehow manages to get out of the shower but she gets the better of him and stabs him to death. After she slits his throat she drags him back to the shower where she shoots him.

I've actually wondered if maybe he was standing when she stabbed him in the heart and he slid down to a sitting position in response. The way his arms are covering his chest appear like a defensive posture to me. ITA with the rest.
The way ALV sped through the murder and shut down conversation about that and what followed by telling JM that she had been hired for the DV and nothing else, do you think it's possible she's never seen the autopsy photos?? I'm wondering if that's how she can be so arrogant in her claims that TA not JA was the abuser.

 

[LambChop]

The May 22nd entry is a red herring. I believe it was written after the killing or written in her premeditation of killing him. She wants to look very not stalkerish and to show she was fine with moving on. She makes sure to point out very key issues about jealousy, the email password "exchange", encouraging him to be patient wit Mimi and she will come around, etc... OMG. This is all such hogwash and is nothing but Jodi's transparent attempt to cover her tracks by painting a completely different picture.
Thurs. May 22, 2008

Today has been a day of good news and sadness. Good news: my phone arrived! And not a moment too soon. Sad news: I finally had “the conversation” with Travis and it did not go well. I sort of put it to him already in an e-mail I sent a few days ago and he didn’t like that either, not nor did he take the hint. So I realized I had to be a little bit more direct. I told him that of course I’m looking for[ward] to his impending visit, that I can’t wait to check more things off the list (from 1,000 places), but that we probably would be better off in all ways if we were not physical.

He got offended and upset, then acted distant. I tried being so sweet and speak kindly to him, playing up all of the advantages of not violating the law of chastity, and he didn’t want to hear any of it. He said he already knows all that. Then it got worse, he asked me who I’m seeing, have I been getting my kicks with someone else, etc. Of course I swore that I wasn’t (which is true) but also pointed out that even if I was, then that’s my right. I also pointed out that I didn’t freak out when he confessed his potentially underlying love for Mimi. He said to leave his love life out of it. Typical. Then after a moment, he apologized, and said a lot of his frustration is from the fact that things in his dating life aren’t going that well, that yes, he still likes Mimi, but it’s not progressing the way he wants to, and he’s leaning towards giving up on her. I told him to be patient, she’ll come around.

The problem with Travis, is that he so used to guys girls falling all over themselves for him and she doesn’t do that. He needs that, I really think he does, –to wait.

Well, even sadder is we agreed to amicably part ways. He is an amazing person, and he’s told me countless times that I am one of the most beautiful people he’s ever met–on the inside and out. But it is really better this way. We both agreed to change our passwords, which we had exchanged eons ago to establish, or reestablish “trust” which we had both violated, so no more of that. We had both picked 2 accounts so I chose Facebook and Gmail and he chose Facebook and MySpace.

We are truly good people at the core, both of us, but we can’t behave ourselves when were around each other, not even over the phone. He said I am still like kryptonite to him. But I’m tired of being guilt-ridden when the air clears.

I knew it was wrong going over there all those nights but I couldn’t say no to him, I couldn’t not pick up the phone. He would rationalize it saying “it’s really not that bad,” or “come on, I want to please you,” and I was weak. I went anyway, I answered the phone anyway.

Moving has certainly helped me morally. I don’t know if it has him or if he’s found a replacement booty-call. For his sake I hope he hasn’t, not because it would be a replacement but because it is not spiritually productive. We both want to get married and I don’t think either of us is anywhere near that if we continue to act immorally w/each other. I am mortified that my phone was stolen. It had a hugely scandalous text message from him (10 pgs!) that he sent last week. It would make a steamy romance novel sound like a script from a G-rated Disney movie. I also had 1 or 2 recorded conversations that were equally as scandalous. I never did figure out how to play those back for him. Well they’re gone now and we won’t be making more. Well, actually I wouldn’t bet on it entirely, one of us will crack and call the other. It’s crazy, but what can you do?

Wherever my phone is now, I just hope text messages and conversations are never discovered. Yikes. It’s certainly not Pamela Anderson or Paris Hilton level scandal, there’s no videos but it would be embarrassing nonetheless.

I am honestly relieved about the whole thing. The “just friends” had many complicated “benefits.” I’m not seeing anyone per se, but somehow I feel like it’s still isn’t fair to any of my current prospects. And Travis said he still certain he wants to marry Mimi, although they’re not yet dating. It’s not fair to her either, in my opinion. We hadn’t talked about her in so long, I didn’t realize he was still in pursuit. I wouldn’t dare lecture him over it though. The first thing that almost popped out of my mouth was, “then why the hell are we still messing around if that’s the case?!?” But I kept it shut. For two reason[s.] 1: it would be like the pot calling the kettle black (as I’ve had my eyon eye on some wonderful’s myself. 2. I honestly don’t think Travis can be monogamous. I’m certain he wasn’t w/ me, although I don’t dwell on it anymore, but my certainty was further solidified when his pattern of behavior continued with his next girlfriend, Lisa Andrews. When he finally admitted that they had been dating, I felt so guilty. I almost wanted to tell her, it seemed only fair, but by then had already broken up and he had moved on to Mimi. Besides, not only would telling her destroy our friendship (mine and his), but it would cause a lot of unnecessary drama and pain. And just because Travis acted like a schmuck when it came to how he treated his previous girlfriends, doesn’t mean he’s capable of learning how to be better. It’s just that I’ve yet to see evidence of it. But perhaps it will be different w/ Mimi. One things for sure, I wouldn’t want to be the “other girl” in that relationship, I couldn’t handle the guilt. And these things don’t necessarily discount all of his other amazing qualities. He’s done more for me than I could ever cout count. He’s helped me in every area of my life. I’m indebted to him for all of the wonderful things that his done. He’s just so dang hot and cold. Bi-polar even, it would seem. But I have a gazillion memories that we’ve created that I will always value, just like the ones w/ Bobby, Matt, and Darryl. All unique. All special, all priceless.

Anyway, one thing I do know is it feels like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I’m saddened and, yes, but it feels like a conclusion, like closure. The final chapter was finally written, and the ending was bittersweet. He said on some level, we will always be friends, but we both agreed that it’s better this way. It’s true. It is very much in alignment with the e-mail I sent him a few days ago. He’ll be so much better off this way spiritually and emotionally. And I’ll start dating for real again soon. Not this casual fill-in-your-Friday-night stuff. I won’t miss his teasing or his bi-polar tendencies to snap and yell and say things he ends up regretting, but I will miss his sense of humor. We’ll still have his car to take care of, but he’ll keep me posted on any new developments. He said if all else fails, then we’ll just scrap it but I would…

Thanks for doing that for us PIP. Do you think you could ask Beach to put this up with the transcripts or maybe in the timeline? I think we will want to refer to it again and again during rebuttal. Thanks in advance.

 

[gngr~snap]

Just started watching this and saw something new - Jodi telling Flores that Travis was "kneeling down" in the shower. I can so imagine her forcing him to beg her forgiveness on bended knee and then plunging the knife in his heart. Now back to watching....

That is exactly why her singing
"O Holy Night"

"Fall on your knees... O hear the angels voices"

IN JULY has always creeped me out! she was reliving it IMO.

 

[summerlee]

Can someone help me find the journal enterys to read,Please. And also the tapes of Jodi's parents to watch,Thank you.

 

[kscornfed]

I was reading an entry in Jodi's diary from May (May 22nd) I believe. I can't find the post that showed the diary entry. She claims to have just gotten her new phone because she lost the other one. Was there ever a break in her phone usage before that date???? And how convenient that the phone with the recording of the sex tape disappears prior to her killing Travis and prior to his text message to her on May 26th.

didn't she testify it was lost in grampa's truck and wasn't found for TWO YEARS????? now who believes THAT whopper? there are only so many places to look inside a vehicle. it's like the phone charger----hopelessly lost inside a small car for 20 hours.

come on. this woman lived on her phone. her long, lumpy fingers were dialing or texting 24/7. she never lost her phone.

 

[Sleuth5]

I've actually wondered if maybe he was standing when she stabbed him in the heart and he slid down to a sitting position in response. The way his arms are covering his chest appear like a defensive posture to me. ITA with the rest.
The way ALV sped through the murder and shut down conversation about that and what followed by telling JM that she had been hired for the DV and nothing else, do you think it's possible she's never seen the autopsy photos?? I'm wondering if that's how she can be so arrogant in her claims that TA not JA was the abuser.

Hi kaRN! :seeya:

I've wondered the same things about the autopsy photos. I'm reasonably convinced that her understanding of the case is pretty minimal. She based her "perpetrator" accusation (by her own admission) on the DT's summarized and carefully vetted (read cherry-picked) information. What's worse, she showed no particular intellectual curiosity in insisting on interviewing TA's family or friends, seeing all the Journal entries, or examining the wider context of the case. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that she has seen none of the autopsy photos or the ME's testimony, etc.

Just :cow:

 

[StephanieHartPI]

She had an entire month to fake the Journal entries and I am positive she did. She planned the murder, faked a break in at the grandparents. She was trying to pull off the perfect murder with a rather elaborate plan.

This included allowing them to find a journal with fake entries she put in AFTER the murder.

 

[Sleuth5]

didn't she testify it was lost in grampa's truck and wasn't found for TWO YEARS????? now who believes THAT whopper? there are only so many places to look inside a vehicle. it's like the phone charger----hopelessly lost inside a small car for 20 hours.

come on. this woman lived on her phone. her long, lumpy fingers were dialing or texting 24/7. she never lost her phone.

BBM. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Sleuth5]

That is exactly why her singing
"O Holy Night"

"Fall on your knees... O hear the angels voices"

IN JULY has always creeped me out! she was reliving it IMO.

That's got me goosebumpy. Never even considered that. :what:

 

[miss plum]

I just realized JA and OJ Simpson have the same birthday, July 9.

 

[kscornfed]

I've actually wondered if maybe he was standing when she stabbed him in the heart and he slid down to a sitting position in response. The way his arms are covering his chest appear like a defensive posture to me. ITA with the rest.
The way ALV sped through the murder and shut down conversation about that and what followed by telling JM that she had been hired for the DV and nothing else, do you think it's possible she's never seen the autopsy photos?? I'm wondering if that's how she can be so arrogant in her claims that TA not JA was the abuser.

same as with samuels, she's not a crime scene investigator. her thoughts on the crime scene would have been strenuously objected to. not to mention, just ignoring the brutality of the crime is another attempt to distance JA from the slaughter she committed.

 

[Colt46]

I don't mean to sound crass, but I am curious to your thoughts.

Do you think if Jodi had actually completely decapitated Travis that the jurors would view the murder differently? Even though she didn't manage to completely detach his head, he is almost decapitated. The fact that his body is still in "one piece" per se in the photos is no less devastating than if she had actually decapitated him. But I think the murder would be viewed quite differently from everyone's perspective.

Just something that came to my mind while thinking about the DT and their supposed "professionals" testimonies.

A 'beheading' is a horrific thought - the worst! That said, there is little difference between beheading and a partial beheading. Either way, the excruciating pain and horror that Travis experienced would not be lessened even if JA had completed the act. However, you have a good point about the testimony of 'supposed professionals' in the case of a beheading. The DT would have no choice but to go with an insanity plea and that would eliminate the testimony of 'pop psychologists' such as Dr. Samuels and ALV. The trial would have been over in one week,, and JA would be sitting on death row.
MOO

 

[rose222]

I've actually wondered if maybe he was standing when she stabbed him in the heart and he slid down to a sitting position in response. The way his arms are covering his chest appear like a defensive posture to me. ITA with the rest.
The way ALV sped through the murder and shut down conversation about that and what followed by telling JM that she had been hired for the DV and nothing else, do you think it's possible she's never seen the autopsy photos?? I'm wondering if that's how she can be so arrogant in her claims that TA not JA was the abuser.

ALV has surely seen the autopsy photos. They don't bother her. Once she said that Travis was not the victim in the hateful way that she did I became sure that this woman is a narci$$I$t. It is frightening. I mentioned on another thread that she'd rather support a female terrorist than a male victim.

I did watch a bit of her seminars or whatever they are. She really comes across as arrogant. And her singing? It has the same effect on me as JA's la la la-ing.

 

[GoodGurl]

She had an entire month to fake the Journal entries and I am positive she did. She planned the murder, faked a break in at the grandparents. She was trying to pull off the perfect murder with a rather elaborate plan.

This included allowing them to find a journal with fake entries she put in AFTER the murder.

ITA. And I think her self defense/battered defense was invented after Nurmi was putting some pressure on her about the ninja story and she had heard stories from the other inmates about self defense. She used their stories as her own.

 

[gcharlie]

Bringing this post over for those who were asking about the stab wounds


Originally Posted by Nhic
OK here goes!

She stabbed Travis while he was sitting down in the shower, he got up staggered over to the sink she began to stab him in the back, he goes down, she continues to stab him in the back, he screams and says he can't feel his legs (because she severed one or more nerves), she then slits his throat to stop him from screaming, drags him back to shower, thinks he's still alive, shoots him in the head, puts in in shower, turns water on, etc.

That's what I think happened.
ITA. She stabbed Travis in the vena cava and this is why he was crawling. The vena cava is the major "tube" that carries blood to the heart to be oxygenated. When the vena cava ruptures or begins leaking large amounts of blood the initial symptoms are horrific pain in the low abdomen/back and loss of movement in the lower legs. People rarely survive this type of injury bc the damage occurs quickly. When Jodi says that Travis was crying out that he couldn't feel his legs it was due to the blood loss from his vena cava. So, this part of events I believe Jodi is being truthful about.
_____

Does this scenario jive with the blood spatter testimony and photos? IIRC, there most of the cast off blood and spatter in the bathroom was on the low levels of surfaces.

Trying to conceptualize what happened is very difficult for me because my mind really does not want to go there. You may find if you pull together all of the forensic testimony, there is an added level of depravity in this slaughter.

I'm to the point where I can barely look at pictures of JA anymore, especially when she is smiling. I wish that the media would stop showing pictures of JA and TA together.