weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[Hat]

Oh, thanks for reminding me, I need to go look.
I love that guy!



ETA: published 4/19 - I haven't seen this one b4
Janeen DeMarte , Jodi Arias Trial , Rejected Juror Questions , scary elevator ghost - YouTube

Yeah well, I don't like that fake Asian accent he puts on or his Kinkade "paintings". I do like his content and trial observations however.

 

[katiedid2]

I wonder why JA did not flee after the murder? I know that she did not think that she would be caught but she had about 6 weeks after the murder until her arrest to flee.

She was arrested before she could flee, like maybe that day, lIronically she was arrested on her birthday too.she quit her job, rented a car, bought a gun. How far did she think shed get on a waitress salary! A rented car that eventually would need to be returned.
She told her dad she couldn't tell him where she was going. Didnt she tell her dad something bad had happened. her grandparents said shed been crying nonstop for days.Any ideas where she could be headed.? Some say Mexico, maybe Gus? certainly not matts he had a girlfriend or wife.
Maybe to daryl s she didn't have any stability in her. Life. She was all about doing unstable spontaneous things.

 

[katiedid2]

Yeah well, I don't like that fake Asian accent he puts on or his Kinkade "paintings". I do like his content and trial observations however.

Awe is that mikee daniels? He's funny.

 

[ChinaBlue]

For all we know, it's possible his ex-wife asked him nicely (or perhaps not so nicely) to not testify on camera for the sake of his son. Kid is 13 or 14 now.

I never bought into any of the hypotheses put forward as to why Darryl Brewer didn't want his face shown. Just for the heck of it, I searched whitepages.com for DBs in California and came up with only 8 (and one was a Harry Darryl) - so not that many to really fade into oblivion. And if I were a kid 13-14 years old and went to school with a boy the same age and his last name was Brewer, it wouldn't take much to find out his father's name.

It seems to me if he really wanted anonymity he would have used an alias (or maybe a combo of no name, no face). So I'll throw out my home-grown hypothesis - he had his face hidden so no trial viewer, especially one who did not know his name, could recognize/remember him as a companion of JAs and perhaps saw them doing something together which could be construed as detrimental to her defense.

As it was, however, I felt something was strange, or a little "off" when he testified. It seemed rather obvious that he didn't want to be there and I, for one, couldn't help but think that he was holding back on all that he knew.

And just to muddy the waters a little more, I couldn't help but wonder if JA threatened him before he testified - something to the effect that if he said anything to put her in a bad light, she would tell his ex-wife something that may cause his joint custody to be revoked - I certainly wouldn't put it past her. But then OTOH, it seems too easy these days to fall into the habit of looking for evil in everything JA does or says. I, for one, will be very happy when this trial is over - it quite insidious.

 

[GoAskAllie]

Probably by the time I write and post this, someone else will have said the same thing - so I apologize for repeating...

Anyhow, I think it was the May 26th text messages the sealed TA's fate. I think that's the correct day of the messages that ALV just loved to reference when Travis went ballistic with JA and told her she was evil and the worst thing that ever happened to him - and basically she was out of his life forever. After that I don't think it would have made any difference with JA even if TA ended up going to Cancun by himself. She knew she was out for good and nothing was going to change his mind. OK, maybe she went to TA's home in June with the slim hope that she could change his mind but if not, then he was going to die - so Cancun really had little to do with the outcome.

And BTW - am I the only one who doesn't think it was abuse (or even inappropriate communication as Dr. D put it) when TA called her all those names? I just cannot imagine a world in which all of us must think through, and mentally edit, each and every word we speak to another person especially in the heat of anger. Travis was angry - very, very angry - and from what Ive seen of Jodi so far, those "abusive" words seem to fit her to a T. I believe the saying goes - call a spade a spade.

Cancun is the home to Chichén Itzá--one of the most frequently visited of Mexico's Mayan sites and a recommended site to visit in the 1,000 Places to See Before You Die book. The meaning that Jodi attached to the shared trips she took with Travis to other places in that book can't be underestimated. It made her feel connected to him and was a source of pride/symbol of status. Even after they were no longer a "couple" they continued to travel and check off places on the list. I think the realization that she wouldn't share this experience with Travis devastated her and her BPD kicked into high gear. She saw this as an absolute betrayal, abandonment and I believe it was the trigger/catalyst for what happened on June 4. If she was spying on Travis and/or reading emails, FB, etc., then she may have known that Mimi and Travis were just friends, but in her fragile state, it wouldn't matter. Travis was going to Mexico without her. Period. End of story. That's not to say that other forces didn't contribute the killing, but as the days ticked by and the trip approached and the anger/rage simmered inside, Jodi became more difficult to deal with and more desperate. Mimi testified that Travis told her he won the trip through work and invited her to go with him in May. We know from the infamous May 10 sex tape that Jodi knew about the June trip to Cancun because they discussed upcoming travel plans before they got down to business. No idea whether Travis had originally invited Jodi and then changed his mind OR whether he saw not inviting her as the only way to get her to see their relationship would never be what it once was. Probably hoped she'd get the hint once and for all and move on. I think she started planning her next move the moment she knew for sure that he was going to Cancun without her. Was the trip to Mesa a last ditch effort to use sex and hope she could change his mind? Possible, but I'm inclined to believe she had revenge/payback on her mind.

I think Dr. D made an important point about Travis's anger/frustration getting the best of him in the heated text exchange on May 26 and the absence of evidence that he was verbally abusive/nasty to Jodi on a regular basis. Who among us hasn't lost it from time to time and said things we wished we could take back (or at least not resort to name calling, etc)? Based on everything that's come out during the course of this trial, I think the jury gets what Travis was up against in his relationship with Jodi and they won't hold it against him. Though there are many theories as to why Travis relented and let Jodi visit on June 4 (and I do believe he knew she was coming before she arrived), it is the one question I'd love to know the answer to. Why Travis why?

 

[GoAskAllie]

Yeah, after cutting a man's throat, stabbing him 29 times, and shooting him in the head, they went into her pocketbook looking for her ID and let her off with a stiff warning to not tell anyone because they knew her name and where she lived. They followed that up with "she must be that b___ from CA". Completely laughable.

Those ninjas had her number!

 

[GoAskAllie]

I never bought into any of the hypotheses put forward as to why Darryl Brewer didn't want his face shown. Just for the heck of it, I searched whitepages.com for DBs in California and came up with only 8 (and one was a Harry Darryl) - so not that many to really fade into oblivion. And if I were a kid 13-14 years old and went to school with a boy the same age and his last name was Brewer, it wouldn't take much to find out his father's name.

It seems to me if he really wanted anonymity he would have used an alias (or maybe a combo of no name, no face). So I'll throw out my home-grown hypothesis - he had his face hidden so no trial viewer, especially one who did not know his name, could recognize/remember him as a companion of JAs and perhaps saw them doing something together which could be construed as detrimental to her defense.

As it was, however, I felt something was strange, or a little "off" when he testified. It seemed rather obvious that he didn't want to be there and I, for one, couldn't help but think that he was holding back on all that he knew.

And just to muddy the waters a little more, I couldn't help but wonder if JA threatened him before he testified - something to the effect that if he said anything to put her in a bad light, she would tell his ex-wife something that may cause his joint custody to be revoked - I certainly wouldn't put it past her. But then OTOH, it seems too easy these days to fall into the habit of looking for evil in everything JA does or says. I, for one, will be very happy when this trial is over - it quite insidious.

He is Harry Darryl Brewer. Saw it on some docs associated with the home that he and Jodi purchased in 2005.

 

[Arabian Girl]

Maybe I've missed something but I don't recall Jodi's portion of the May 26th text. Why was TA so angry and did she testify about it???

Man, getting old suc......:banghead::banghead:

 

[PPKik]

Was on youtube listening to wilmott tear viciously into demarte. The day she wore the white suit, but demarte held her own. tH criticising demarte because she's to young. Well where does one start may I ask.
I've never seen wilmott that hostile with anyone! Venom was spitting from her lips. It's almost like she's taken her friendship with Jodie over the top? Am I imagining this or is it REALY that ovious. Lol maybe my meds are making me see/ hear things lol? Am I loca?

No, not loca and you are not imagining it. It was sickening to watch. I felt exactly the same though not listening to TH's.
Wilma didn't listen and ask logical questions; she just seemed to be on a vindictive attack. Period. I have never seen a lawyer show such venom, as you say, when the witness was simply answering in a straightforward way.

Perhaps Wilma became more unwrapped as her abusive tactics didn't work. I couldn't watch all of it.

But, I also felt that Dr. JD's explanation of the possible origins of BPD could be misinterpreted and help JA. I am perplexed that ASPD didn't come up in her tests of JA. If the defense could script what they wanted from Doc $cam and ALyes and allow specious claims of abuse and pedophelia, I can't understand why the prosecution didn't find a psychologist to discuss ASPD and it's deadly implications, rather than BPD.

That is not to say I didn't find Dr, JD impressive, but she gave the defense room to blame Travis ("abusive" texts, though put in context), and said JA's Borderline PD could have come from bad parenting. Why give the defense anything? The last parts of her testimony and juror's questions left me feeling very unsettled.

I loved the way she started out but not the way she ended her testimony.

 

[ChinaBlue]

ITA with everything you wrote here.

If there is anyone there who doesn't believe this is murder one after the stalking, the gas cans, the cell phone turned off, the car rental from Redding, the hair dying, the upside down license plate, the theft of the gun w/ the caliber matching the bullet taken from TA's head, the 29 stab wounds, the near decapitation, the shot to the head, the change of weapons, the defendant's hand print in a mixture of her blood and the blood of TA, the hair stuck in blood, the efforts to clean the crime scene, the photos she deleted from the camera that was thrown in the washer, the removal of the weapons from the scene, hooking up with RB after the murder....

Sending a dead man an email, a text, a phone call, sending TA's grandmother 20 irises, lying to the police and a 1000 other things, if after ALL that, a juror doesn't get it? Nothing will help.

If there is actually someone in that group who could be that unintelligent, oblivious and COMPLETELY void of ANY measure of common sense, there is no recourse on earth to obtain justice for anyone. Ever.

Great post - I concur wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately we have been diverted from the basics by the endless testimonies of the experts. So I fully expect JM to direct the jurors' attention back to all the salient points (and more) that you mentioned above during his closing arguments.

 

[Arabian Girl]

No, not loca and you are not imagining it. It was sickening to watch. I felt exactly the same though not listening to TH's.
Wilma didn't listen and ask logical questions; she just seemed to be on a vindictive attack. Period. I have never seen a lawyer show such venom, as you say, when the witness was simply answering in a straightforward way.

Perhaps Wilma became more unwrapped as her abusive tactics didn't work. I couldn't watch all of it.

But, I also felt that Dr. JD's explanation of the possible origins of BPD could be misinterpreted and help JA. I am perplexed that ASPD didn't come up in her tests of JA. If the defense could script what they wanted from Doc $cam and ALyes and allow specious claims of abuse and pedophelia, I can't understand why the prosecution didn't find a psychologist to discuss ASPD and it's deadly implications, rather than BPD.

That is not to say I didn't find Dr, JD impressive, but she gave the defense room to blame Travis ("abusive" texts, though put in context), and said JA's Borderline PD could have come from bad parenting. Why give the defense anything? The last parts of her testimony and juror's questions left me feeling very unsettled.

I loved the way she started out but not the way she ended her testimony.

I agree and also think JM the exact Personality Disorder isn't a huge point because they are all Axis II, meaning according to the DSM they are not considered treatable. That of course is changing.

More importantly none of them stop someone from knowing the difference between RIGHT and WRONG. Jodi knew killing TA was wrong or she wouldn't have tried to clean up the crime scene. Jodi is not pleading Insanity and I think JM just wanted to negate the Battered Women's Syndrome and the abuse claims.

Maybe BPD is simpler to explain and give specific examples of than other diagnosis. That's important for the jury to be able to accept. Jodi has symptoms of MULTIPLE disorders...imo.

 

[dani]

Cancun is the home to Chichén Itzá--one of the most frequently visited of Mexico's Mayan sites and a recommended site to visit in the 1,000 Places to See Before You Die book. The meaning that Jodi attached to the shared trips she took with Travis to other places in that book can't be underestimated. It made her feel connected to him and was a source of pride/symbol of status. Even after they were no longer a "couple" they continued to travel and check off places on the list. I think the realization that she wouldn't share this experience with Travis devastated her and her BPD kicked into high gear. She saw this as an absolute betrayal, abandonment and I believe it was the trigger/catalyst for what happened on June 4. If she was spying on Travis and/or reading emails, FB, etc., then she may have known that Mimi and Travis were just friends, but in her fragile state, it wouldn't matter. Travis was going to Mexico without her. Period. End of story. That's not to say that other forces didn't contribute the killing, but as the days ticked by and the trip approached and the anger/rage simmered inside, Jodi became more difficult to deal with and more desperate. Mimi testified that Travis told her he won the trip through work and invited her to go with him in May. We know from the infamous May 10 sex tape that Jodi knew about the June trip to Cancun because they discussed upcoming travel plans before they got down to business. No idea whether Travis had originally invited Jodi and then changed his mind OR whether he saw not inviting her as the only way to get her to see their relationship would never be what it once was. Probably hoped she'd get the hint once and for all and move on. I think she started planning her next move the moment she knew for sure that he was going to Cancun without her. Was the trip to Mesa a last ditch effort to use sex and hope she could change his mind? Possible, but I'm inclined to believe she had revenge/payback on her mind.

I think Dr. D made an important point about Travis's anger/frustration getting the best of him in the heated text exchange on May 26 and the absence of evidence that he was verbally abusive/nasty to Jodi on a regular basis. Who among us hasn't lost it from time to time and said things we wished we could take back (or at least not resort to name calling, etc)? Based on everything that's come out during the course of this trial, I think the jury gets what Travis was up against in his relationship with Jodi and they won't hold it against him. Though there are many theories as to why Travis relented and let Jodi visit on June 4 (and I do believe he knew she was coming before she arrived), it is the one question I'd love to know the answer to. Why Travis why?

I, too, think the May 26th text sealed his fate. I also think she thought she could change his mind about Cancun. But, something you said made me wonder about when was the first time Jodi asked Darryl for the gas cans. Wasn't there something said about her asking on more than one occasion?

Anyone?

 

[PPKik]

I agree and also think JM the exact Personality Disorder isn't a huge point because they are all Axis II, meaning according to the DSM they are not considered treatable. That of course is changing.

More importantly none of them stop someone from knowing the difference between RIGHT and WRONG. Jodi knew killing TA was wrong or she wouldn't have tried to clean up the crime scene. Jodi is not pleading Insanity and I think JM just wanted to negate the Battered Women's Syndrome and the abuse claims.

Maybe BPD is simpler to explain and give specific examples of than other diagnosis. That's important for the jury to be able to accept. Jodi has symptoms of MULTIPLE disorders...imo.

Thanks for your clarifying and helpful post, and for putting it all back into perspective. You are absolutely right about JM wanting to negate BWS and abuse and I think Dr. JD did that. I just heard what I felt a juror on the fence might find mitigating, i.e., JA couldn't help it, all that "instability"--she was made to be that way.

Maybe it was some jurors' questions, too. As you said, as long as they understand that she did understand right from wrong and made all those choices knowing the consequences. Goodnight

 

[Really?]

I, too, think the May 26th text sealed his fate. I also think she thought she could change his mind about Cancun. But, something you said made me wonder about when was the first time Jodi asked Darryl for the gas cans. Wasn't there something said about her asking on more than one
Anyone?

now you all have me wanting to look up and rewatching mr. Brewers testibaloney. He was way reluctant.

Also, I have read that cancan ppl is on the rebuttals list. Who or what is that?

 

[Really?]

Oh, I wanted to add one more thing.........

Happy Birthday to Meeeeeeeeeee.........hahahahahaha

 

[bsk]

The impression I got from that question was regarding Samuels' test results. He had said that even though she was attacked by a stranger but it was actually Travis, the test results are still valid. I think the juror wanted to know if the bear/tiger scenario would be as valid. I think the juror wanted Dr. DeMarte to answer a question about the test validity without directly asking. There were very few questions asked and none of them were asking about her expertise in battered women's syndrome.

I honestly believe they don't think she was battered and wanted clarification on whether or not PTSD can wipe out five hours of memory (which the doctor said no).

Samuels: Eh, trauma is trauma, so it's all good.

DeMarte: If the basis is wrong, then the conclusion is invalid.

Obviously a lot of us had wondered about that question. I hope the way you described it is correct. It made me think the jury was buying into the defense nonsense, but it could be that the juror is trying to split the gap in a sense: "If the trauma basis is different but similar, does that still invalidate the results?"

DeMarte replied that it doesn't matter; you can't draw any conclusion off an invalid basis. So if the juror was looking for closure on disbelieving Samuels, i.e. is there any way that you can keep the results, I'd say this did it. Let's hope that's what the juror was doing.

 

[GoAskAllie]

I agree and to add to that.....how does one tie someone up to a sleigh bed? I'm totally confused.

You're right. and the sleigh bed is another reason why I don't buy the rope and the "Travis tied me up" story. She claimed he tied her wrists to the bed, which is problematic based on how she described what happened. When you have a bed without posts, you don't have anything to anchor the rope or restraints to. The easiest thing to do would be to buy a kit that comes with straps that you slide under the mattress or bed frame. Most come with cuffs that attach to the end of each strap. If all Travis and Jodi had to work with was a long piece of decorative rope, then the logical thing to do would have been to run the rope under the mattress or bed frame to secure it, then cut it after he figured how much length he needed to bring it up the sides of the bed to where her wrists would be. Then he'd have to create "nooses" or cuffs for her wrists out from the extra (unused) rope. JA gave a sob story about not really wanting to be tied up but she did it for Travis. Claimed she didn't stay tied up very long because he hadn't shaved and his face was scratchy. Go back to my original position. Stand by my assertion that the rope was fabricated to bolster her claim as to why a knife was in the bedroom.

 

[bsk]

To continue grinding the problem PDS test to powder, the clinical tools web page noted that the questionnaire was strictly self-reporting, provided no reverse questions, had format tending to lead to over reporting, had no scales to detect faking nor validity scales and is therefore susceptible to malingering.

There is a candidate off to the left who qualifies as Chief Malingerer and much, much more. We know she lied about opening question, checking the choice of assault by a stranger. Since the test is flawed in inviting over reporting & malingerer's claims, why would she not continue to skew and falsify her answers? Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. Interesting legal presumption: false in one, false in all. It's my belief that Dr. DeMarte disregarded the PDS test because she did not respect it as a valuable tool for the same reasons clinical tools web site criticised it.

BBM - Am I getting apples and oranges confused, or is the PDS test intended as a follow-up for people who score over 75 on that other test where she had a 69? If so, then it wouldn't matter how she scored on the PDS anyway because a) it never should have been administered to begin with, which b) means it's no good for her anyway because she's not in the right target audience that results are calibrated against.

 

[GoAskAllie]

I, too, think the May 26th text sealed his fate. I also think she thought she could change his mind about Cancun. But, something you said made me wonder about when was the first time Jodi asked Darryl for the gas cans. Wasn't there something said about her asking on more than one occasion?

Anyone?

Yes, I re-listened to Darryl's testimony a few weeks ago and JM was hammering him about when the first time Jodi asked to borrow the gas cans. He was deliberately vague and said it was shortly before the road trip, however JM said that's not what you said in your previous interview with the prosecutor. He eventually conceded that it was much earlier in May. The other interesting point to come out of that testimony was that during his interview with the State, Darryl told JM that Jodi wanted to borrow the gas cans for a road trip to Mesa. He claimed he didn't specify Mesa, but IIRC, I think he eventually conceded that he may have said Mesa. And yes, she inundated him with phone calls/messages/reminders about the gas cans.

 

[Melanie]

Oh, I wanted to add one more thing.........

Happy Birthday to Meeeeeeeeeee.........hahahahahaha

Happy Birthday Really! I hope you have a great day!

:Happybirthday:

:bdsong:

:bdscroll: