Weekend Discussion Thread 04/27-30/2012

[LadyL]

First off, I would like to apologize if these things have already been discussed, but I haven't had the time to keep up with all of the posts.

In yesterday's thread I believe it was Heliotrope who asked if there was a 'silent juror' in the courtroom, watching, observing and reporting back to legal counsel. I would imagine there might be, but, in a similar vein, why wouldn't the defense counsel have someone (or more than one) monitoring what is going on here on this board? ....checking out how we are responding to different evidence, out theories, etc. We would be like a shadow jury and they would have a window into our thoughts.


And, just a random thought, did we hear of many instances of "Mr. dance instructor" going out dancing?

they are likely checking out social media when they have time, not necessarily this board but any of the dozens of crime boards and comments under news articles etc.

this is where Mike was a dance 'instructor' - according to Mike in his first police interview, he had begun the unpaid training to become an instructor but never completed the training:

http://www.fredastaire.ca/pages/currentpositions.php

they have studios in London, Kitchener, and Oakville (among other locations) ...

 

[LadyL]

maybe this will answer your question...also someone posted an artist drawing of the trial and both the crown and defence were wearing their gowns..

http://www.ojen.ca/sites/ojen.ca/fi...can visitor to Canadian Court eng updated.pdf

thanks ... didn't find my answer but I just realized that the court cases I've been to didn't involve juries so that might make a difference

 

[Sillybilly]

except that photo was of the defense team ...

to the WS members that have attended this trial - did the defense lawyer Derstine have on a robe or was it just the prosecutor?

because I'm confused now about the formal dress in other criminal trials that I've been to at that courthouse because the prosecutor always had the robe on but I don't remember the defense lawyer wearing it (and, specifically know that he did not in one case in which I was personally involved)

Mr. Derstine would definitely be wearing his robes, and there have been various courtroom sketches that depict this, i.e. <scroll down>

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/22/stafford-rafferty-trial-thurs.html

HTH

ETA: I see this has already been "asked and answered".

 

[Macright]

thanks ... didn't find my answer but I just realized that the court cases I've been to didn't involve juries so that might make a difference

also depending on what type of court and the offence you were in..it says that the requirement of court attire in not necessary in lower courts...so I took that to be something lower than a murder trial...

 

[LadyL]

also depending on what type of court and the offence you were in..it says that the requirement of court attire in not necessary in lower courts...so I took that to be something lower than a murder trial...

ah, I get it now

I did read that but wasn't sure what 'lower' court meant ... I was only thinking of criminal vs. civil, not the difference between charges

thank you [insert smiley icon here]

 

[brighidin]

because we are known in their world as "armchair" detectives and we give them more laughs than anything else...that is if they even take the time to read these types of boards.. which I doubt any of the legal eagles do..they have more important things on their plate.. too bad though cause some on here are pretty perceptive..IMO....there is one reporter that I think reads these boards and gets some ideas...JMO

Not true. Many lawyers and LE follow big boards like WS. Some are registered here and even post. Defense attorneys pay attention to social media to gauge how the public reacts to their arguments, amongst other reasons. This trend will continue to grow.


imo

 

[swedie]

Not true. Many lawyers and LE follow big boards like WS. Some are registered here and even post. Defense attorneys pay attention to social media to gauge how the public reacts to their arguments, amongst other reasons. This trend will continue to grow.


imo

Yes it does happen. In the CA case, there was a lead detective who was a member of WS. JB questioned him about his participation on WS. JB referred to him as his user name. He was not releasing information to members, just his opinion and chatting IIRC. HTH

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have wondered throughout this for the past three years why we have not read anything about MR's upbringing and where he was originally from and where he was employed...we have read the whole life of TLM..even know where her stepfather lives etc. I wonder why the reporters did not seek out this info on MR...yes we have some idea but nothing concrete except what we have picked up during the trial..I find that very strange and wonder why..we kid about his various jobs especially the dance instructor but maybe he was ..we don't know for a fact that he wasn't...It just seems that his previous life before Jan 2009 is a hush hush and I don't think he just appeared at that time from under a turnip patch.... JMO

I think we didn't hear about MTR like we heard about TLM because of the publication ban.

 

[otto]

Yes it does happen. In the CA case, there was a lead detective who was a member of WS. JB questioned him about his participation on WS. JB referred to him as his user name. He was not releasing information to members, just his opinion and chatting IIRC. HTH

It certainly seems to happen in the US, but I don't think it happens in Canada. I don't think that prosecutor's offices can afford to hire people to surf the net reading comments about ongoing cases, and I doubt that suspects would want to pay for the service either. There would never be a Casey Anthony situation in Canada where the media paid the suspect $200,000 for pictures of the victim.

 

[swedie]

I brought this post over from yesterday as I feel it is fitting to MR. Does anyone else see the similarities? Very odd, that both of my links to sites worked yesterday but do not work now...hmm. Anyhow I have posted two more links. Interesting read. HTH.

I really wonder if MR was really not "into" women. Could it be he actually disliked women and used them for what he could get out of them? Were women the only sex he could have a friendship with as opposed to males? Did he feel neglected and abandoned by his mother at some point in his life? He was shipped off to live with relatives for some time. Wonder how long? I would be interested in knowing why his parents divorced? Was his birth father ever in his life or was MR the result of an affair and his real father never knew about him or didn't care about him? Just because he had many women coming and going doesn't mean he really cared about them. There are men who hate women but will use them to their advantage. So many questions and not enough answers Answers we may never know. MOO

The misogynists. You may have heard of them. But what you may not know is that they can be anywhere around you. They are notoriously hard to spot. They do not come with a label attached to them, and they may even come across as woman lovers.

http://www.lifescript.com/life/relationships/hang-ups/how_to_tell_if_your_guy_is_a_misogynist.aspx

http://www.lovesicklove.com/2011/07/men-who-hate-women.html

Is it just me or does anyone else believe MR holds many of these traits/characteristics? IKES!! MOO

 

[snoofer]

except that photo was of the defense team ...

to the WS members that have attended this trial - did the defense lawyer Derstine have on a robe or was it just the prosecutor?

because I'm confused now about the formal dress in other criminal trials that I've been to at that courthouse because the prosecutor always had the robe on but I don't remember the defense lawyer wearing it (and, specifically know that he did not in one case in which I was personally involved)

In Canada, court dress is identical to that previously (pre-2008) in use in England, except that wigs are not worn. Bar jackets are worn under the gown, though QCs and Judges have more elaborate cuffs than other lawyers. Barristers are required to "gown" for the Courts of Appeal and Superior-level courts of the provinces and territories, as well as the Federal Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada. The donning of business attire is acceptable by barristers in "inferior" provincial and territorial courts; court dress is also permitted, though rarely worn. Judges of the Supreme Court of Canada wear red robes with white fur trim on ceremonial occasions together with tricorne hats; however, they wear black gowns when hearing cases. Judges of all other federal and provincial courts wear black gowns, sometimes adorned with various sashes and crests which depend on the level of court and the province in which the case is heard. All Canadian judges also wear black court waistcoats with white collar and tabs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_dress#Canada

 

[Ardy]

Those following the trial on social media, not only don't a full understanding of everything that happened in court, but they also don't know the content of the legal arguments and rulings. The lawyers for the Crown and defense have much more information than the general public does.

We can speculate and follow up on testimony, but the jury hears it as it was spoken and that is what they will base their verdict on.

There would be no reason for either the defense or Crown to pay much attention to social media websites, because the public perception is often far different than that of the jury.

That is why the public is often surprised by jury verdicts.

JMO..............

 

[snoofer]

I would like to think that as well but to me anyone who could harm a child wouldn't think twice about the victim's parents. From the press's accounts, the only emotion he showed was not for the victim or her family, but an old flame. JMO

yes, you are likely right. MOO

 

[Ardy]

Considering I don't for a second believe the "escort" friend of MR was simply handing over all her money to MR, because he was some kind of Svengali, I am thinking there is more to the debt theory than we presently know.

MR was picking up drugs from various sources , and people were depositing money into his account...............to me that looks like drug trafficking. It doesn't mean MR was the man behind it all though. He might have just been the errand boy and go between.

If there is more the defense should be able to reveal it all.

After all, they have MR sitting right there with all the information.

JMO.............

 

[Snoopster]

Those following the trial on social media, not only don't a full understanding of everything that happened in court, but they also don't know the content of the legal arguments and rulings. The lawyers for the Crown and defense have much more information than the general public does.

We can speculate and follow up on testimony, but the jury hears it as it was spoken and that is what they will base their verdict on.

There would be no reason for either the defense or Crown to pay much attention to social media websites, because the public perception is often far different than that of the jury.

That is why the public is often surprised by jury verdicts.

JMO..............

While I agree that we definitely wouldn't be in the same position as a juror, I still think that defense cousel counsel could check in on these kinds of sites at key times.

While the general public (i.e. us) tends to react in a more simplistic, emotional way ("he's charged, he's a bad person, it's a brutal crime, therefore he must be found guilty!), there is still some excellent discussion that goes on. If you watch this particular thread for instance, you can see the give and take between posters with different views. You can pick out which 'arguments' seem to have some impact on the posters. I absolutely think that cousel may check the pulse of the general public who are actively following the case.

 

[matou]

I have wondered throughout this for the past three years why we have not read anything about MR's upbringing and where he was originally from and where he was employed...we have read the whole life of TLM..even know where her stepfather lives etc. I wonder why the reporters did not seek out this info on MR...yes we have some idea but nothing concrete except what we have picked up during the trial..I find that very strange and wonder why..we kid about his various jobs especially the dance instructor but maybe he was ..we don't know for a fact that he wasn't...It just seems that his previous life before Jan 2009 is a hush hush and I don't think he just appeared at that time from under a turnip patch.... JMO

I think the defense team got that info thrown out. JMO. We know all about TLM and the defense were all over that but nothing much about their client has come out at all. Why not?

 

[Alethea Dice]

But what is there to sell? A picture of a member of LE on the stand? One of MTR sitting in his glass box? There have been recent pics of MTR in a vehicle on his way to or from court, so there's nothing to reveal there. Spectators sit at the very back of the courtroom, the view is not great and there really isn't much to take pictures of. As for the evidence presented, that was all made available to the media at the end of the day. I don't see how anyone would pay money for anything they could have snapped. And I'm with Otto in that there would be no chance of a mistrial for this infraction. The only thing that makes sense to me is sheer stupidity.

JMO

Just curious, AG. What is the spectator's view of the jury? Are they blocked from view to protect their identity? Or are they in plain sight?

 

[Alethea Dice]

what doesn't make sense is the full circle of it all. He didn't tell LE and lied to LE because...afraid of gangs? Yet here he sits in prison/at trial and going to blame gangs?? Am I missing something? No reason he shouldn't have told LE if that were the truth but of course it was not the truth IMO

I think it's more likely that he stayed quiet because he was afraid of spending the rest of his life behind bars. Also, the same reason he continued to entertain TLM. Once he started to wait 3 or 4 days to return her calls and told her they needed to distance themselves, she sang. JMO

 

[robynhood]

I think the defense team got that info thrown out. JMO. We know all about TLM and the defense were all over that but nothing much about their client has come out at all. Why not?

I agree 100 percent...I too feel that this is very odd...and YES Mr. Rafferty certain DID NOT suddenly appear ...I'll say hmmm may be a stork delivered him at the age of 29...and he just got dropped on OUR wonderful Province Ont...LMAO!...but it is NOT funny in the least way ....I think I shall be traveling to LONDON next week ...I can hardly bare this whole BS story IMO....robynhood!

 

[Wondergirl]

I hope MR saw RS tell the press he didn't think he was man enough to testify. If I was falsely accused of a crime, nothing could stop me from telling the world. I guess we will see. JMO

BBM: That's the thing, right?

Most defendants do not testify on their own behalf. Most defendants of murder are found guilty.

I think Rafferty is going to testify.

The Crown is going to have a field day.

JMO