weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012

[Kamille]

I have no idea who is being referred to as Miss W<modsnip>, but it could be one of a couple of the other ones. I would need to research further as that list is very confusing, but from that I can say that #7 only had one 15 minute coffee date, and #14 ended about the same time that #8 started.

TLM has admitted that they weren't "exclusive" and had added him to the visitor's list so they could stay in contact.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/mcclintic-wrote-stabbing-man-robbery-152507597.html

The list has been posted many times for your convenience so if you go back and check you'll see they were all involved with him at the same time.

The original point in question was that even with this 4-5 women on the line, he was still excessively trolling, contacting and making dates with many other women...at the same time.

Not the behaviour of a guy looking for any kind of lasting romance with any one woman. He was using and manipulating anyone and everyone of the female persuasion that he could both before and after this crime.

MOO

 

[Macright]

This is considered baiting and is against TOS. If there is another site out there that posters should be aware of or that has information you think would be helpful - link it up. If the link comes up asteriks (*****) that means it is not allowed at WS. If that happens - then the information nor site may be discussed.

Thanks,

Salem

just want to say that I like your quote by George Patton....

 

[Tink]

I don't quite get the idea of offering Tori to MR as a "gift." Unless he had suggested that he wanted to have sex with a young girl, why would she even think of such a thing? None of the men I've been involved with would have any interest in raping a child - they'd be horrified.

I've also wondered if the reason she killed the child was jealousy. I can see TLM initially going along with MR's plan, thinking she'd please him by getting the child for him ("do anything for a little bit of love.") But then when she actually saw him raping her - and presumably enjoying it - she was overcome by jealousy. I can see her reacting by attacking her "rival."

I very much believe MR should go to jail for a very long time. But I also deeply hope we will somehow get some evidence that the rape never happened. I just find it unbearable that this sweet little girl suffered through that.

Tink

 

[Hello_Kitty]

From reading this board from day one, I can see that there have been many potential defenses and theories posted. It seems most of the population just doesn't want to read and comprehend such possibilities. I might even predict that the shocking revelations/show stopper has been detailed here or in a like forum before. There is just such rage and need to find him guilty of all charges that there is little room to contemplate such "reasoning". JMO

The same could be said for those who think he is innocent despite the evidence.

Well, lynch mobs seem to be more prevalent on the inside than the outside and they're illegal. Not sure what the difference is between "solitary" and "protective custody". Is there?

I don't think 'protective custody' is just for the prisoner in question. I believe they wouldn't want someone like Bernardo or Williams in the general population to protect other prisoners. Imagine a serial killer/rapist in the same population as an 18 year old who got 5 years for marijauna possesion.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

So, according to this by Derstine, which I think may have been overshadowed by the unbelievable fact that he admitted MTR helped in this crime (I expected him to 100% deny MTR involvement), the Defense is going to try and argue that MTR "came back".

Where did he go?

Up the lane? Somewhere else completely? Alibi?

And wasn't there a bunch of snow on the ground?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have problems that MR would plan the crime and then entrust the knowledge of such a crime to someone like TLM, whom he recently met and was a druggie.

If he did, 25 years in jail won't bother him much, because he has no brain.

JMO................

I can see where you are coming from. But I wonder if it could be that he was so disgustingly elated that he had found someone to help him carry out his sick fantasy that he was only focused on that and the ways that he could use the type of person that TLM is to his advantage if LE did become suspicious of him.

 

[Salem]

True, BUT, we do not know if that was motive or not. MR has told others that it was. Defence could go with this, we do not know who the debt was with.

This is a good point. And when I put it together with MR's statement to LE that he saw/knew of TM from Good Time Charlie's and that she was part of the drug scene and he had heard she owed a drug debt or whatever he said - it makes me think even more that it was MR that got ripped off. Interesting.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Another possibility is that the jury already knows who that drug debt was owed to, it is very possible that for one reason or another that information was not allowed to be reported on. If that's the case then I would assume it's someone who is in no way related to this case.

Or maybe the information was so prejudicial against the dealer that the rules of evidence kept it from being presented to the jury.

Just sayin'

Salem

 

[Sillybilly]

Colon cancer appointment? In all seriousness, I bet he went to wherever TLM said she went...the place where you can see the silos, was it?

Yabutt ... she got to say it first.

Perhaps they both walked away to admire the silos? I don't think so.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Thanks to the Beast of British Columbia, Clifford Olson, prisoners serving 2 years or more will no longer be eligible to collect OAS or GAINS (I don't see specific reference to CPP, but will check further):

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100601/jailed-seniors-legislation-100601/

Probably the only good thing that ever happened related to Olson, other than his demise.

Woo hoo! Go Canada!

One thing that really gets me is that if convicted MTR's life sentence will be twenty-five years. I wish that could be changed because it doesn't look like he can be proven to be a repeat offender. The same goes for TLM.

Maybe it's just because here its very different, but it really upsets me.

 

[snoofer]

I don't quite get the idea of offering Tori to MR as a "gift." Unless he had suggested that he wanted to have sex with a young girl, why would she even think of such a thing? None of the men I've been involved with would have any interest in raping a child - they'd be horrified.

I've also wondered if the reason she killed the child was jealousy. I can see TLM initially going along with MR's plan, thinking she'd please him by getting the child for him ("do anything for a little bit of love.") But then when she actually saw him raping her - and presumably enjoying it - she was overcome by jealousy. I can see her reacting by attacking her "rival."

I very much believe MR should go to jail for a very long time. But I also deeply hope we will somehow get some evidence that the rape never happened. I just find it unbearable that this sweet little girl suffered through that.

Tink

Maybe each had different motive or one had two motives drug debt and child sex.:moo: Or maybe the rape was not part of the plan in the beginning but seemed like a good idea to the MALE if the initial crime was to be kidnapping/murder. JMO I wonder if this crime was supposed to "get their money back" and it quickly went out of control, police got involved etc. One of the posts said something about MTR waved to JG on sidewalk (does anyone have that link or where that info is). Could it be something was to be sorted out with money and debt and it all went horribly wrong as the police got involved? JMO The only problem with a more complicated plot to this murder is that the crown does not seem to be suggesting that with the tweets we have seen. I would assume that the crown would only want to put forth what they believe is the TRUTH, that this was random.

 

[Tahorn]

I don't quite get the idea of offering Tori to MR as a "gift." Unless he had suggested that he wanted to have sex with a young girl, why would she even think of such a thing? None of the men I've been involved with would have any interest in raping a child - they'd be horrified.

I've also wondered if the reason she killed the child was jealousy. I can see TLM initially going along with MR's plan, thinking she'd please him by getting the child for him ("do anything for a little bit of love.") But then when she actually saw him raping her - and presumably enjoying it - she was overcome by jealousy. I can see her reacting by attacking her "rival."

I very much believe MR should go to jail for a very long time. But I also deeply hope we will somehow get some evidence that the rape never happened. I just find it unbearable that this sweet little girl suffered through that.

Tink

Unfortunately it happens more then we want to know about, plenty of mothers allow their child to be raped over and over again just to keep the bread winner in the home ... KH gave her sister to PB, and since they weren't married yet one can only assume it was to trap him ...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I don't quite get the idea of offering Tori to MR as a "gift." Unless he had suggested that he wanted to have sex with a young girl, why would she even think of such a thing? None of the men I've been involved with would have any interest in raping a child - they'd be horrified.

I've also wondered if the reason she killed the child was jealousy. I can see TLM initially going along with MR's plan, thinking she'd please him by getting the child for him ("do anything for a little bit of love.") But then when she actually saw him raping her - and presumably enjoying it - she was overcome by jealousy. I can see her reacting by attacking her "rival."

I very much believe MR should go to jail for a very long time. But I also deeply hope we will somehow get some evidence that the rape never happened. I just find it unbearable that this sweet little girl suffered through that.

Tink

I have thought about that as well. I have even wondered if going into the abduction MTR had not spelled out for TLM that that is in fact his primary motivation for the abduction.

Sometimes I think that people who have experienced being molested as a child like TLM can sense it when they are around molesters. That is the only realistic scenario I can think of for why she would want to give him a gift like that. I makes me nauseous to say that.

 

[pattywack]

IMO I don't think the drug theory is a "piece of fluff/stuff that anyone is throwing out there"..if I remember correctly that was first mentioned by posters, reporters and I would think it was also in the minds of the LE... we know that CM was selling drugs to TM & JG ..and we now know that MR was either dealing or using drugs so drugs plays a big factor with all these players...we know that JG owed someone $$$$ and I would think that CM would be an easy target for him considering her state of health .. then there is the dog issue which was probably decided upon to pay down a debt.. that fell through...then we have someone like TLM (won't bother describing what I think she is ) who is connected to all of them...CM can't do much in her condition to get payment from JG or anyone else but TLM can...so that is why I believe that TORI was targeted by TLM as a warning but somewhere along the way it developed into something else....I don't think that MR was aware just what TLM really had in mind because if he did I would think he would have driven to that spot from the start rather than detouring around for a pickup of drugs, ATM withdrawals and Timmies... :moo: so no, we can't dismiss the drug connection or the debt owed...it factors into this somehow IMO...it may have started out as a rumour but we have learned since that it was indeed the truth...:moo:

I really have a hard time going along with the drug debt theory. I don't think CM had the means to let someone run up a huge debt. She had nothing. Seems like they lived hand to mouth. And didn't I read long ago that JG had been to CM's after Tori disappeared to check out TS's theory that she thought the girl in the white coat was TLM. I just don't see him doing that if there was hard feelings between them. He may have owed her a small amount but I can't see it as very much. MMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Unfortunately it happens more then we want to know about, plenty of mothers allow their child to be raped over and over again just to keep the bread winner in the home ... KH gave her sister to PB, and since they weren't married yet one can only assume it was to trap him ...

Yes, but I think in those kinds of situations the mother knows that the abuser wants that? What would make TLM think out of the blue that MTR would want that kind of gift? Did TLM have a habit of offering her boyfriends this kind of gift? Had she abducted any children in the past to give as gifts?

 

[snoofer]

I don't understand how killing, kidnapping and raping a child or any ONE of those charges can get you only 25 years or less with parole etc. I think a life sentence should be just that; until they die in jail. JMO

 

[swedie]

:moo:The defense leading up to the trial seemed to suggest there would be some shocking revelations that will show his client is innocent. I cannot help but wonder if that is why we have not seen much action from the defense thus far. Is there going to be some sort of "show stopper" when defense has it's turn. I cannot fathom what that would be; but I get the feeling that we need to hold on to our hats! JMO I sure hope and pray that justice is served at the end of this trial; as Tori so deserves that it does. I just cannot fathom what sort of defense that will be offered and it seems that it has been kept close to the vest and defense is just "waiting patiently" for their turn. MOO I DO believe that after both sides are presented that the TRUTH will win out in such an important and provincially expensive case. It would be terribly disheartening if after this case it does not feel as though justice was done properly; so I am going to have faith that at the end of the case; it will all come full circle and the right verdict will be formed.

* Defense will blame it on MR's identical twin brother who no one knew about other then MR. Remember that twin brother who was kidnapped at a young age and raised by the people who kidnapped him.

* MR's clone did it.

* Aliens abducted MR and planted an evil chip into his brain.

Does anyone find it strange Derstine did not give an opening statement? :waitasec:From what I have read and posted here up there somewhere, it's not the norm and doesn't usually sit well with the jurors. I've had visions of Derstine sitting at his desk night after night scratching out parts of his written tactical plan muttering "damn Crown, that excuse won't fly now thanks to those witnesses, back to square one ugh". :doh: :moo:

 

[Salem]

<bbm>

If we presume that MTR did not rape or kill VS, then possibly "state of mind" could consider why he failed to act when any reasonable person should have known that a child being beaten over the head with a hammer was sure to result in her death. If Derstine can somehow raise reasonable doubt of MTR being in the immediate area of the attack (took a walk), then possibly this could diminish his involvement in the eyes of the jury ??

US Common law says Intent for 1st Degree murder can be shown through "malice aforethought" (cruising the school in the morning, FB comment); commission of a felony (kidnapping is a felony in US and so is rape); depraved heart - acting in away that shows total disregard for the result. There are a couple other ways also - I just can't pull them out of my brain at the moment.

Intent to rape could be shown through the kidnapping of the child.

Intent to kidnap could be shown through MR's failure to stop the car and let the child out when she asked if she could go home and promised not tell anyone.

HTH,

Salem

PS - all of that will depend on the jury. The jury will have to find the intent, I'm just pointing out some things that they might think about in their deliberations. OH and of course, this is all based on US law.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I don't understand how killing, kidnapping and raping a child or any ONE of those charges can get you only 25 years or less with parole etc. I think a life sentence should be just that; until they die in jail. JMO

Since MTR is charged with two crimes is there a possibility that he will receive sentences for both so he could ultimately end up serving more than twenty-five years locked up?

 

[Hello_Kitty]

<modsnip>

I do believe that TLM had scoliosis, which a abnormal curving of the spine, so it can be very painful. I don't think she had colon cancer. But I do understand what you mean by wannabes and those who abuse to get a high and lie and pretend to have all these diseases that real people suffer from.

Here is a link on scoliosis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002221/