Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3

[wenwe4]

Remember there was pin holes in the duct tape found on Caylee, I think it was from a needle, KC used it to inject it right into Caylees little mouth..

weren't the pin holes from LE pinning the specimen to the corkboard?

I remember when the pics of the duct tape from the scene came out and I questioned both of these scenarios. At the time, I chalked it up to pin holes from LE & FBI pinning the items to a mounting board for pics & testing, but now thinking back, I cannot remember any other items that had pin holes in them from LE testing or mounting for pics. Can anyone else? Now I am thinking the pin holes were actually found at the dump site and not added later by LE. If so, this makes perfect sense in that kc used the duct tape to silence the child and then injected chloroform to put Caylee to sleep. A sort of "soft kill" as previously alluded to by others.

 

[flourish]

I remember there was some talk about the holes in the dump site tape being possible teeth marks from animals.

 

[wenwe4]

I remember there was some talk about the holes in the dump site tape being possible teeth marks from animals.

IIRC they sure looked like pin holes and I didn't identify a pattern of teeth marks but I will go look again.

 

[wenwe4]

Here is a link to the pic of some of the pin holes in the duct tape. I don't remember any other piece of evidence w/pin holes in them (ie: trash bags, garbage, etc) where LE might have put the holes in the items during mounting or testing. I don't think these look like animal activity, but I am not an expert in that field. Could these pin holes be from the syringe?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/21249759/detail.html

 

[Beatrice]

I dunno...It seems simple to me....

Henkel Duct Tape is manufactured out of Ohio
Where the Anthony's are from.
(How much duct tape can one use?)

It is rare in Florida.

The knife in the car cut the Henkel Tape......IMO This is the "Smoking Gun"

Again, "I dunno"

 

[OKaraMia]

Never considered till now that perhaps there were two pieces of duct tape to hold her mouth open...and the third placed over that to hold in fluids as she injects through it...er...:yow:

 

[wenwe4]

Never considered till now that perhaps there were two pieces of duct tape to hold her mouth open...and the third placed over that to hold in fluids as she injects through it...er...:yow:

Great speculating OKM. I was just thinking thru that and my understanding (not having a personal experience) chloroform just needs to be inhaled to knock someone out, incapacitate them, or even kill them (depending on exposure). I think if kc injected chloroform between the layers of tape, it would be enough to have a very negative outcome on a little girl. The tape could have had two purposes, one to silence and suffocate, and two to administer continuous chloroform fumes as long as little Caylee was breathing. Just my speculating now

 

[notthatsmart]

May be a stupid question, but it is for the chemist.

Wouldn't that level of chloroform in the trunk (parts per million vs parts per billion normal), kill any flies in the trunk? thanks

bumpity bump hoping for an answer

 

[notthatsmart]

The reason I am asking is how can we have it both ways? How can high levels of chlorform kill humans and not flies. It does matter. Now we could say it disipated over time, but then how does it come out in an air sample in high levels. This is why I would like a chemist to answer this very important question. Also would high levels of chloroform kill the larvae? thanks

bumpity

 

[BondJamesBond]

bumpity bump hoping for an answer

Hey, NTS.

You might find some helpful information by reading material you find by Googling, "lc50 chloroform Phorid"

LC50 is the concentration of a material that has fatal results on 50% of a population exposed to it. In this case, I believe you are interested in coffin fly, or phorid/phoridae.

HTH

 

[spqr]

IIRC they sure looked like pin holes and I didn't identify a pattern of teeth marks but I will go look again.

I think these pin holes are the result of the tape being pinned to some type of examination "board" to keep them flat and outstretched and prevent them from folding over onto themselves or another item or piece of examination equipment.

The holes appear to be on the ends of the tape not near the center where the mouth and/or nose would be.

 

[Nore]

bumpity bump hoping for an answer

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nts. This has already been discussed on the Doc Dumps and also WS. pages about chloroform.Loads of info..

 

[notthatsmart]

---------------------------
nts. This has already been discussed on the Doc Dumps and also WS. pages about chloroform.Loads of info..

Thanks, okay, I will remove my post.

 

[notthatsmart]

---------------------------
nts. This has already been discussed on the Doc Dumps and also WS. pages about chloroform.Loads of info..

I am unable to remove the post, so I will alert the mods to have those post removed. thanks

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks a lot. I can see it now. Am I seeing part of the baby seat in the extreme lower right?

ETA: We are WAY off topic for a thread about the Gatorade bottle found in the woods.

Please tell me that a DNA test was run on the cap and lip of the Gatorade bottle even if we haven't seen the results yet.
I would think with the cap being sealed on the bottle it would be pretty safe from the elements and hold some secret.
Thank you WS's.

Regarding the Gatorade bottle ~ I was looking at old docs for another reason and ran across a DNA Extraction Data Sheet (pdf. pg 12/58, written pg 12322).
Last week I spent a good deal of time trying to understand how DNA is compared. Before then these reports meant nothing to me.
I noticed that the DNA they extracted was totally different from the DNA of any of the A's.

It's male DNA ~ 17,19 / 15,16 / 23,28 / XY / 13 / 29,30 / 13,14 / 9,12 / 8,11 / 9,13
This DNA Profile is dated July 24, 2009

Among this doc dump is the lab sheet that ordered DNA (pdf. 2/58) to be tested from the Gatorade bottle and the syringe (7/9/09).
It is logical, but not certain, that the above DNA is what they found on the Gatorade bottle.

I'll bring the link here. It is in the Official Documents Thread, Post 232 dated November 6, 2009 under 'DNA Evidence pgs. 1-58' wesh.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/1106/21540216.pdf

 

[AZlawyer]

Regarding the Gatorade bottle ~ I was looking at old docs for another reason and ran across a DNA Extraction Data Sheet (pdf. pg 12/58, written pg 12322).
Last week I spent a good deal of time trying to understand how DNA is compared. Before then these reports meant nothing to me.
I noticed that the DNA they extracted was totally different from the DNA of any of the A's.

It's male DNA ~ 17,19 / 15,16 / 23,28 / XY / 13 / 29,30 / 13,14 / 9,12 / 8,11 / 9,13
This DNA Profile is dated July 24, 2009

Among this doc dump is the lab sheet that ordered DNA (pdf. 2/58) to be tested from the Gatorade bottle and the syringe (7/9/09).
It is logical, but not certain, that the above DNA is what they found on the Gatorade bottle.

I'll bring the link here. It is in the Official Documents Thread, Post 232 dated November 6, 2009 under 'DNA Evidence pgs. 1-58' wesh.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/1106/21540216.pdf

Woe, about a year or so back we learned from the FBI lab protocol manual that "FSB" is just a control sample of known male DNA that they use to make sure the tests are all running properly. So that "unknown" male DNA in some of the charts is nothing to worry about. It is just listed for confirmation that the equipment came up with the correct results on the control sample.

So on the specific document you referenced, the results show that (1) the equipment was working properly (correctly identified a known sample of DNA ("FSB3")and did not identify any DNA in a known blank sample ("NEG3")), but (2) the FBI could not identify any DNA at all from the questioned items tested.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Woe, about a year or so back we learned from the FBI lab protocol manual that "FSB" is just a control sample of known male DNA that they use to make sure the tests are all running properly. So that "unknown" male DNA in some of the charts is nothing to worry about. It is just listed for confirmation that the equipment came up with the correct results on the control sample.

So on the specific document you referenced, the results show that (1) the equipment was working properly (correctly identified a known sample of DNA ("FSB3")and did not identify any DNA in a known blank sample ("NEG3")), but (2) the FBI could not identify any DNA at all from the questioned items tested.

Did you look at page 12 (written page 12322) at the above link?

DNAAUI Extraction Data Sheet - that one?

 

[AZlawyer]

Did you look at page 12 (written page 12322) at the above link?

DNAAUI Extraction Data Sheet - that one?

Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. The first line shows the DNA found in the "FSB3" (control) sample.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. The first line shows the DNA found in the "FSB3" (control) sample.

Gosh, why can't they write 'sample' across the page or something.:crazy:
I almost called myself "Turtle" because it seems like I'm behind a lot. That would have been a more fitting name for me - ha!

 

[joypath]

Gosh, why can't they write 'sample' across the page or something.:crazy:
I almost called myself "Turtle" because it seems like I'm behind a lot. That would have been a more fitting name for me - ha!

OH Woe! :twocents: If we eliminated all the jargonese then we wouldn't think we were "spechieale" and needed all that expensive "edumakation"!. :truce:

On the other hand, just imagine how confused :loser:JB:loser: is going to be since he'll be the one attempting to UNDERSTAND ALL of this "stuff" without the fantastic assistance of the :innocent:teamwork:woohoo:,resources:woohoo: and minds :angelf OUR co-posters:blushing:!:dance: