WESH: Duct Tape Info in the Document Release

[nyvictoria]

I'm not so sure that LE would grant them that courtesy and they are not obligated to do so. Baez would more than likely be the ones to tell them, but not sure if attorney/client priviledge may prevent him from doing so unless KC agreed. The hosipital visist with stomach problems kinda makes me think that Jose bought her story hook, line and sinker. Now he is going to have to think of her as a murderer, not as a victime herself.

Is GA still in Satsuma? If not, I wonder if he left because of the impending fp news?????

ITA Jose bought every lie KC told him and he's now sick because of all the "she's innocent" statements he's made to the media.

 

[jennyb]

So basically most murders are considered premeditated then, if it only takes a second to think and then act. If you're in a bar holding a beer bottle and someone pizzes you off, you hit them over the head and kill them -- well, that's premeditated too? Just like if a child makes you so angry you tape their mouth and they die... I wonder ...

 

[jennyb]

Yup. They did.

Blise

Sorry, Blaise (p.s. you just misspelled your name).

 

[mitzi]

Thank you God, I needed to hear this! I just returned from having to put my 22 yr old kitty (Mr. Magoo aka 'Gooey') to sleep, I have never had to do this before. I came home feeling sad and lost and now I have hope for Caylees justice to be done!!!!

O/T - Awww...so sorry for your loss. :blowkiss:

 

[jennyb]

good point. I can see it both ways. The idea of putting duct tape on a live child seems more horrific to me, i guess. But whether that equals premeditation...ugh, it could go either way.

Eta: now, duct tape plus some toxic residue from caylee's mouth...that would be pretty hard to explain as a rage killing.

definite premeditation in my book.

 

[lin]

Thanks, Lin. I understand that legally premeditation can happen in the blink of an eye. I guess something so brutal as duct-taping a live child speaks of momentary rage to me, which goes against a long planning scenario. More of an impulse thing. Overall, computer searches notwithstanding, I tend to think it was a rage killing.

You're making a distinction I don't and that I'm not sure is permissable under FL law. I don't think rage is a defense or a mitigating factor, particularly with a child. Maybe if she caught TL with another girl it could be introduced as mitigation in a penalty phase. Even so, a rage thing, imo, would be supported by blunt force but not by duct tape, something that is not usually readily at hand for most of us.

Glad to know we're not so far apart on this. I think your logic and common sense are refreshing.

 

[jennyb]

Is GA still in Satsuma? If not, I wonder if he left because of the impending fp news?????

ITA Jose bought every lie KC told him and he's now sick because of all the "she's innocent" statements he's made to the media.

It would astound me if JB was that naive. I can't believe that!

 

[faefrost]

I think it will be darn near impossible to put a spin on fingerprints or dna on the duct tape, even for her. Maybe the body farm tests, because they're so new or some of the other tests that have been done, but this is the smoking gun, imo.

What is particular bad news for the defense. There is video of Dr. Baden, the husband of LB on KC's "dream team", on GVS giving a quite detailed report, complete with demonstrations, on just how wonderful duct tape is to a forensic investigation, how impossible it is to not leave meaningful evidence on its surface, and how damning it is for a defendant when duct tape is found related to a crime.

How can you defend against a piece of evidence, when all the prosecutor has to do is pop in a video of your husband clearly declarring that fingerprints on the glue side of duct tape would be unquestionable conclusive evidence of who comitted the crime?

 

[Blaise]

Sorry, Blaise (p.s. you just misspelled your name).

I am a very fast and very inaccurate typist.

Blaise

 

[lin]

So basically most murders are considered premeditated then, if it only takes a second to think and then act. If you're in a bar holding a beer bottle and someone pizzes you off, you hit them over the head and kill them -- well, that's premeditated too? Just like if a child makes you so angry you tape their mouth and they die... I wonder ...

In the bar with the beer bottle at hand, could be considered manslaughter, possibly, depending on other circumstances. Could also be considered murder. Doubtful it would be murder 1 or premeditated murder.

The victim being under the age of 12 is an aggravating factor under FL law and may be enough in and of itself to raise this to a murder 1 charge. Maybe not enough to ensure dp, but m1, very possible.

 

[jennyb]

You're making a distinction I don't and that I'm not sure is permissable under FL law. I don't think rage is a defense or a mitigating factor, particularly with a child. Maybe if she caught TL with another girl it could be introduced as mitigation in a penalty phase. Even so, a rage thing, imo, would be supported by blunt force but not by duct tape, something that is not usually readily at hand for most of us.

Glad to know we're not so far apart on this. I think your logic and common sense are refreshing.

Ok, yes. It takes time to deal with duct tape. I agree. Using that material, in and of itself, would have to then constitute premeditation. Even if she grabbed it from the back seat and quickly wrapped it around it takes enough time to understand what you are doing. Coke to you.

 

[natsound]

I think it will be darn near impossible to put a spin on fingerprints or dna on the duct tape, even for her. Maybe the body farm tests, because they're so new or some of the other tests that have been done, but this is the smoking gun, imo.

It's called smoke and mirrors. Don't worry about that man behind the curtain! (i.e. fingerprints). What about (blank blank blank)? I'm using blanks because I'm not gonna give the defense one iota of help!

But you see what I mean. Confuse the jury through exaggeration, downplaying, etc.

 

[hollyhobby1973]

When LP said on NG that the fingerprints are on the duct tape and they are Casey's ... LP started to say more, but NG interrupted him - then he said never mind, I would be sticking my neck out there .... I'm sure LP knows a lot more than he said ......

I agree here. I just wonder how LP gets all the goods.

 

[lin]

What is particular bad news for the defense. There is video of Dr. Baden, the husband of LB on KC's "dream team", on GVS giving a quite detailed report, complete with demonstrations, on just how wonderful duct tape is to a forensic investigation, how impossible it is to not leave meaningful evidence on its surface, and how damning it is for a defendant when duct tape is found related to a crime.

How can you defend against a piece of evidence, when all the prosecutor has to do is pop in a video of your husband clearly declarring that fingerprints on the glue side of duct tape would be unquestionable conclusive evidence of who comitted the crime?

As John Wayne would say: Yup.

 

[cyberborg]

Exactly. For example, wouldn't anyone know that if they lie about a phone call received, the way she did about the fictional call from her daughter on the day 911 was finally called, it can be determined in about 5 minutes if the call really took place? casey does not think about those things because she has never had to. She lies and everyone buys it. She either flashes a big smile or throws a big fit and no one challenges her. Boy has that changed now!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

That's why KC has everyone convinced that the big bad LE are out to frame her, they keep on taking her 'mistruths' and debunking them. That is not the way this is supposed to happen!!! She is THE victim in this and LE, the media, the general public -- everyone is out to get her. It is so bad, KC cannot even swallow. It was not supposed to work like this. JB will prove everyone wrong.

 

[Themis]

And I expect that is for a 40 hour work week. In reality, they probably work many, many hours beyond that.

Yes, but they are classified as "excepted" which means they do not get paid anything for overtime.

 

[lin]

It's called smoke and mirrors. Don't worry about that man behind the curtain! (i.e. fingerprints). What about (blank blank blank)? I'm using blanks because I'm not gonna give the defense one iota of help!

But you see what I mean. Confuse the jury through exaggeration, downplaying, etc.

'Ladies and gentlemen of the jury... 31 days... fingerprints on duct tape. I rest my case.'

I think that would pretty much do it. But am sure they'll have a whole lot more.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Tomorrow is going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong day !!

 

[gitana1]

Today is also probably a holiday for government workers like prosecutors.

The prosecutors on this case are seeing few if any holidays until this case is done, rest assured.

 

[okiedokietoo]

if there was more than one strip of duct tape found at the scene and KC's prints were on more than one piece and maybe some prints somewhere in the middle of the tape, or one long strip of tape with KC's prints not on the leading edge where you tear it off, I don't see how Defense can say someone else took the tape from the A home - KC's prints might be on one edge of the tape from the home but not spread out all through the tape (sticky side)