What do JonBenet's clothes say?

[BlueCrab]

narlacat,

Patsy wants everyone to believe the size 12/14 underwear were in JonBenet's underwear drawer in the bathroom, but that's not where the cops found them. The size 12/14's were in her bedroom. There were only size 4's and 6's in the bathroom underwear drawer.

Patsy is trying to make it appear that JonBenet wore large underwear, and when asked what size she normally wore, Patsy said size 8/10. But there were no size 8/10's found in the house -- only 4's, 6's, and the unopened package of size 12/14's with one pair removed. IOW, Patsy is trying to downplay the importance of the 12/14's found on JonBenet by lying about the sizes, thereby distancing Burke as the possible person who inappropriately redressed JonBenet in the oversized underwear. Patsy wants people to believe JonBenet put the size 12/14's on by herself before going to the White's dinner party.

During the Atlanta interviews in 2000 investigators spent hours trying to get information from Patsy about how JonBenet ended up dead wearing size 12/14 underwear, but Lin Wood fillibustered the responses to the questions with irrelevant speeches. The frustration due to the deliberate interference almost caused a fistfight between Mike Kane and Lin Wood. The bottom line: the Ramseys and Lin Wood, using their standard M.O., successfully obfuscated and prevented this crucial piece of evidence from being explained.

The Ramseys' endless lying, obfuscating and refusing to cooperate prove they know who killed JonBenet -- and they are desperately trying to cover it up. How do we know? Easy. They sure to hell aren't going to find a killer by lying and throwing obstacles in the path of the police investigation beginning on day one and lasting to this day.

BlueCrab

 

[UKGuy]

>> two asymmetric ponytails<<

I thought there were three pony tails.
Is there a pic of the pony tails anywhere? I cant see one in the autopsy pics.

>>not to mention the size-12 underwear, which was not present in her bathroom drawer? <<

I thought thats where the remaining days of the week underwear was found, in JonBenet's bathroom drawer.

narlacat:
From the autopsy:

REMAINDER OF EXTERNAL EXAMINATION: The unembalmed, well developed
and well nourished caucasian female body measures 47 inches in
length and weighs an estimated 45 pounds. The scalp is covered by
long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of
the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and
one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band.
No scalp trauma is identified.

That is the elastic bands were both blue and one ponytail had an another cloth hair tie attached.

If we run things backwards, there is a picture in the public domain of JonBenet on xmas day relaxed and smiling, she appears dressed in her nightdress/pijamas and has her hair down. I "think" the same nightdress/pijamas are displayed in crime scene photos. [These are the ones which lay under her pillow, which Patsy disregarded in favor of the white pullups]

Some thoughts here are: In her xmas day picture her hair is down, and there is no evidence of pony tails. There is another picture of JonBenet in what appears her bedroom holding a white rabbit or stuffed toy, this also displays her with her hair down and smiling, additionally in both photos, which appear to be conventional domestic scenes, she is wearing NO jewelry!


Also unless JonBenet attended the White's Party with two ponytails: one on top and one on the lower back of the head. Where did they come from? So contrary to both Patsy and John's evidence JonBenet must have been awake before going to bed.


Even if she was asleep as stated then someone has done her hair prior to or after she was killed. Not only is this is further evidence of staging, but similar to the pineapple snacking may be further evidence that she was wide awake.


Size-12 Underwear:
JonBenet's underwear drawer in the bathroom contained 15 pairs of size 4 and size 6 underwear and no size-10/12 underwear. Although the size-12 underwear is said to have been originally stored unopened in her bedroom, they were intended as a gift for a relative, I have not seen the remaining size-10/12 pants itemized on any search list inventory as being found in the bedroom! So you only have Patsy's word as to their origin!

So if you review her clothing you can paint a picture of JonBenet depending on through whose eyes you are viewing. So imagine her in the red turtleneck, her barbie nightgown, or most likely by her public persona the white gap shirt. Add in the jewelry, the red heart on her hand, and you have JonBenet dressed more for some pageant than her bed.

Which of these is the authentic JonBenet, why do her hair in pony tails prior to her going to bed, why place her in the white gap top when her nightgown/pijamas from the night before lay under her pillow, who reconsidered and decided her barbie nightgown would be more appropriate for the wine cellar crime scene?

All these questions may suggest multiple staging with JonBenet originally discovered wearing clothing different to that when she was found in the wine-cellar by JR!

Jonbenet's Clothes Say A Lot If You Are Prepared To Listen.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, her panties were changed. According to the coroner, the blood on the panties did not correlate with the blood on her vaginal area. She was wiped down with a dark cloth.

My belief is that the police are holding back as far as the dark cloth is concerned. My belief is that the velvet vest JonBenet was wearing was used to wipe her down. The fibers from the vaginal area were also found on her shirt...

Toltec:

From the search warrants:

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-inventory.htm
December 27, 1996 Search Warrant Page 6:
Baseball bat (3GLI)
Golf clubs (4GLI)
Pair of underwear (45BAB)
Velvet turtleneck (47BAB)
Red clay brick (48BAB)
Golf club cover (50BAB)
Towel (51BAB)
Tissue (52BAB)
Liquid from toilet (53BAB)
Liquid from toilet (54BAB)
Black & White tights (56BAB)
Childs underwear (57BAB)
Childs underwear (58BAB)
Childs underwear (59BAB)
Black tights (62BAB)
Black/red/green Christmas sweater (63BAB)
Black & Grey girls pants (64BAB)
Black velvet vest (65BAB)
Black shirt (66BAB)
Black trousers (67BAB)
Garland (71BAB)
Garland (72BAB)
Baseball bat (74BAB)
Satin bow (86BAB)
Hammer (6BAH)
Blue sweat pants (34BAH)

Is this the Black velvet vest (65BAB) that you think JonBenet may have worn to the whites?

.

 

[BlueCrab]

There was nothing in the house, including any article of clothing, that matched the dark fibers on JonBenet's vaginal area and inner thighs caused by the wipedown. Whatever was used is one of the missing crime scene items of evidence.

 

[narlacat]

uk guy

Patsy would not have done JonBenet's hair like that for the White's party.
Pony tails are meant to be on the side of the head, not one on the top and one on the bottom. And why would someone use 2 elastic bands and a cloth tie as well and just on one??
Also in uk guy's search warrant list....it says liquid from toilet. Why did they take liquid from the toilet?

 

[BlueCrab]

Also in uk guy's search warrant list....it says liquid from toilet. Why did they take liquid from the toilet?

narlacat,

There were two unflushed toilets in the house -- the one in JonBenet's bathroom; and the one in the powder room in the basement. DNA can be extracted from any feces in unflushed toilets.

Also along these same lines, a pair of JonBenet's feces-soiled jeans, partly inside out, were found on her bathroom floor.

 

[narlacat]

Thank you Bluecrab for answering that for me.
That soiled pair of pants on the bathroom floor has always made me wonder. Why leave them there as evidence.....and what has Patsy said about them?? I cant find anywhere where she was questioned about them.

 

[BlueCrab]

Thank you Bluecrab for answering that for me.
That soiled pair of pants on the bathroom floor has always made me wonder. Why leave them there as evidence.....and what has Patsy said about them?? I cant find anywhere where she was questioned about them.

From the 1998 interviews:

PATSY RAMSEY: "This is JonBenet's floor, her pants."

TOM HANEY: "Do you recall those particular pants, when she would have worn those last?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Not for sure. Probably recently because they are dropped in the middle of the floor, but I don't remember exactly."

TOM HANEY: "They are kind of inside out."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

TOM HANEY: "This is a close up of it. It appears they are stained."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

TOM HANEY: "Is that something JonBenet had a problem with?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well she, you know, she was at the age where she was learning to wipe herself and, you know, sometimes she wouldn't do such a great job."

TOM HANEY: "On Christmas day were you in that bathroom at all?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Very likely, but I can't say for sure."

TOM HANEY: "Had you been in there that day, would you have done something with them?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, I got, you know -- that night I got -- I know I got the longjohns for her out of that bathroom."

TOM HANEY: "Right, out of one of the drawers in there."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah."

TOM HANEY: "Do you recall seeing those on the floor that night when you got the -- "

PATSY RAMSEY: "No."

TOM HANEY: "underwear?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "They could have been there. I don't know."

BlueCrab

 

[Toltec]

About the Barbie nightgown---

I spent some time reading the interview with John Ramsey and he says in it that the nightgown found in the cellar looked to him like the nightgown that was supposed to be on a life-sized Barbie doll that was in Jon Benet's bedroom.



I had never read this before and thought it interesting. Here's the link:

JOHN RAMSEY INTERVIEW

The interview is really long, so the best thing to do is use the Find feature on the browser. "Barbie" was the one I used.

Very interesting...could John have been referring to the "My Twinn Doll"? He says he remembers it being on the barbie...but could it have been the MTD? I know it came with a couple of matching outfits for JonBenet.

Here's another theory I would like to throw in....what if Burke tried to dress JonBenet like the My Twinn Doll and place her in a box (suitcase) like the doll's? What if he used the cord to tie JonBenet like the doll was tied?

 

[Toltec]

Doesn't this statement go against every description of Jonbenet , those made by neighbors, teachers, friends, and family?? I recall only one person suggesting this, other than you, and that was LHP. She was raising a family of needy kids, and obviously showed jealousy in her remarks.

WRONG SISSI....The gardener called her bratty...another person says she was bossy...Nedra Paugh said that she would get a kick in the shin once in a while.

I don't know JonBenet...you don't know JonBenet....I am getting my information just like you do.

 

[Camper]

Very interesting...could John have been referring to the "My Twinn Doll"? He says he remembers it being on the barbie...but could it have been the MTD? I know it came with a couple of matching outfits for JonBenet.

Here's another theory I would like to throw in....what if Burke tried to dress JonBenet like the My Twinn Doll and place her in a box (suitcase) like the doll's? What if he used the cord to tie JonBenet like the doll was tied?

Spooky thought Toltec!!! Sounds more like an 'adult' activity to me though, but, a big hmmm here.


.

 

[Cranberry]

narlacat:
From the autopsy:

Size-12 Underwear:
JonBenet's underwear drawer in the bathroom contained 15 pairs of size 4 and size 6 underwear and no size-10/12 underwear. Although the size-12 underwear is said to have been originally stored unopened in her bedroom, they were intended as a gift for a relative, I have not seen the remaining size-10/12 pants itemized on any search list inventory as being found in the bedroom! So you only have Patsy's word as to their origin!

So if you review her clothing you can paint a picture of JonBenet depending on through whose eyes you are viewing. So imagine her in the red turtleneck, her barbie nightgown, or most likely by her public persona the white gap shirt. Add in the jewelry, the red heart on her hand, and you have JonBenet dressed more for some pageant than her bed.

Which of these is the authentic JonBenet, why do her hair in pony tails prior to her going to bed, why place her in the white gap top when her nightgown/pijamas from the night before lay under her pillow, who reconsidered and decided her barbie nightgown would be more appropriate for the wine cellar crime scene?

All these questions may suggest multiple staging with JonBenet originally discovered wearing clothing different to that when she was found in the wine-cellar by JR!

Jonbenet's Clothes Say A Lot If You Are Prepared To Listen.

Was any of JB's underwear packed for the overnight stay in MI or the Big Red Boat trip? Were the packed suitcases inventoried?

 

[sissi]

WRONG SISSI....The gardener called her bratty...another person says she was bossy...Nedra Paugh said that she would get a kick in the shin once in a while.

I don't know JonBenet...you don't know JonBenet....I am getting my information just like you do.

I understand,we are all getting third hand information, true. We do have a right to pick and choose what we believe. She kicked Nedra in the shin?? This is one I missed!

 

[narlacat]

I thought it was Patsy that she kicked in the shin!!

 

[dingo]

somebody please help, the pants found on the floor with the stain ,were they underpants or outer pants, like jeans or similar

 

[GuruJosh]

WRONG SISSI....The gardener called her bratty...another person says she was bossy...Nedra Paugh said that she would get a kick in the shin once in a while.

I don't know JonBenet...you don't know JonBenet....I am getting my information just like you do.

i agree Toltec... in fact more broadly i am suspicious of anyone who is claimed to be "perfect" (or in JBR's case a "little angel")

in fact i am suspicious of santa for saying that! Yeah i'm too suspicious i spose.

but anyone who has lived a little, knows that no one, young or old, rich or poor, christian or zoroastrian, is a "little angel"

especially when people die, they tend to be looked back upon with rose colored glasses (candy rose colored? )

but i do believe JBR was a good kid. I'm sure there are tens of millions of other good american kids too, though.

 

[dingo]

Treading lightly here,she may not have been an angel on earth,but she is certainly an angel in heaven

 

[lawman]

just regarding the pony tails issue.

in the xmas day photo of jbr she appears to have two ponytails, at least to me.
although i may be seeing things.

 

[Toltec]

There are alot of bratty kids in the world...my nephew comes to mind. But I love him so much and Patsy and John loved their precious JonBenet. My point is that JonBenet was not perfect...

 

[dingo]

Theres no doubt that JBR had everything a little girl could wish for,which adds up to a spoilted child,but from what ive read about her she seemed to be a very thoughtful,giving,caring child.Her brother [BR] at the time seemed to be the opposite,very cold and uncaring,worried more about his nintendo than his sister :sick:.Something not right there