What do the profilers say?

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A possible explanation for the inconsistencies is that there may have been three different stagings one enacted by her killer, another enacted by the ransom note author, and yet another by the person(s) who decided to stage her murder as a bedtime abduction followed by a lustful homicide.

The interesting question is not who killed her, or why they staged it this way or that, but in doing so, just what were they intending to hide or obscure?
 
Zman said:
I think JR may even strongly suspect who did it but could never convince LE to take it seriously because they were to busy focusing on them.

The R's had their own investigators at the very beginning of the crime. Perhaps you're right about LE not honing in on JR's "suspect", but his own investigators would have taken him seriously. Not to mention that Keenan and the "fresh" eyed investigation would have listened, plus the DNA, which is supposedly the smoking gun.

Agreeing that the BPD bungled the crime scene, I can't see why if John had someone in mind who did this heinous act, that person would not have been thoroughly investigated by now.
 
The intruder was not smart at all ... the people/person who planned it was.
 
Nehemiah said:
Aussiesheila, within 24 hours of Christmas Night there would have been more people involved who would have to be questioned...the pilot Archuletta, JAR and Melinda, and Stuart Long (these are the ones we definitely know about; there may have been others once they got to Charlevoix). The Ramseys already had concrete plans after Christmas that included other people and that were traceable. To have waited another day would have implicated them even further, IMO.

I see your point, though, and think it's a good one. I just think that if they are involved in any way, that window of opportunity for the cover up was marginal.
Nehemiah,

This post was directed at the RDI theorists who I believe cannot explain why the Ramseys called the police in so early in the morning after one of them had supposedly killed JonBenet.

According to their theories as I understand them, the Ramseys wrote a ransom note to make the killing look like a kidnapping.

But in kidnappings the child is normally missing. The Ramseys still had the body in the house at 6 am that morning. Why immediately call the police and have them come to the house when there was a chance the body would be found?

Why not delay calling the police for 24 hours and dispose of the body before the police arrive?

OK, so they would have had to call the pilot Archuletta, JAR and Melinda and Stuart Long. They would have had to say “look, there’s been a change of plan, we aren’t going to Charlevoix, something terrible has happened, we can’t talk about it, don’t come to our house, stay away and we’ll call you back as soon as we can”.

Then 24 hours later call everyone and say “JonBenet has been kidnapped, we were expecting the kidnapper to call all day yesterday but he still hasn’t called so now we’ve brought in the police”

Now IMO if indeed one of the Ramseys had killed JonBenet and they wrote the ransom note, then my suggested further plan of action would have been far superior to the action we know the Ramseys did take that day. So why didn’t they do the further coverup my way? Because they wern’t smart enough to think of it? I don’t think so.

I think they didn’t do it my way because they did not kill JonBenet nor did they mastermind any kidnapping staging.
 
K777angel said:
I mean, an intruder simply is not going to enter a home on Christmas night of all nights, with the intention of kidnapping the child of the home for ransom/money - and then not only FORGET to bring a ransom note with him but take the time and risk to write one in the victim's home and then leave the note but not take the child! Not only not take the child but beat her and kill her right in the home!
What purpose was there in coming then?
Kidnappers for ransom and child molesters do not mix.
One wants money.
One wants sex.
Neither of these two was the true motivation in the crime against JonBenet.
But not all intruder theorists are saying that an intruder entered the home on Christmas night of all nights, with the intention of kidnapping the child of the home for ransom/money. Maybe there isn't even one that is!

I am an intruder theorist and I say that the intruder(s) entered the home with the intention of sexually abusing the child of the home. I say that only one of them killed the child, the others had no intention of killing the child and tried to cover up the intentional sexual abuse and accidental killing by pretending that a kidnapper had entered the house and taken the child. Unfortunately the police were called in too early, before they had time to properly dispose of the body and it was found hidden in the house instead of in the mountains where they had intended taking it.
 
Zman said:
I think someone who for whatever reason had a incredible hatred of JR left a brutal message of that at the expense of JBR.
I think it was someone who knew him well and maybe even brought help along.
I think they were already in the house when the R's came home or somehow knew how to get in.
I think this person had been in the home prior to that night and maybe even set some things up before hand.
I don't think sex or molestation had anything to do with the crime. Other than as staging to fill the R's with even more guilt and sorrow.
I think in a strange way the RN was left as a calling card of sorts. Explaining why and who to JR.
I think JR may even strongly suspect who did it but could never convince LE to take it seriously because they were to busy focusing on them.

I am throughly convinced that the R's woke up that morning looking forward to a great time in Michigan and a great trip on the BRB.
Well Zman,

This is a different angle to be coming from. People have had said of what I say about Patsy that they find it hard to believe, I presume because they have never come across anyone in their lives like that. I have to say to you that I find it hard to believe (and I'm sure it's for the same reason) that there could be a person such as you suggest, who in hating someone would want to hurt them indirectly by brutally torturing and killing their child. I feel that any hatred would be best satisfied by attacking the person directly. But I might be wrong and have to admit that it is possible they might exist.

So what further evidence is there to point to an intruder such as this?
 
aussiesheila said:
But not all intruder theorists are saying that an intruder entered the home on Christmas night of all nights, with the intention of kidnapping the child of the home for ransom/money. Maybe there isn't even one that is!

I am an intruder theorist and I say that the intruder(s) entered the home with the intention of sexually abusing the child of the home. I say that only one of them killed the child, the others had no intention of killing the child and tried to cover up the intentional sexual abuse and accidental killing by pretending that a kidnapper had entered the house and taken the child. Unfortunately the police were called in too early, before they had time to properly dispose of the body and it was found hidden in the house instead of in the mountains where they had intended taking it.

The type of sex offender you ascribe this crime to first of all does NOT work in groups.
Secondly, this is THE most dangerous type of offender. One who enters a home to abduct the child for sexual purposes. Think of Polly Klass' murderer Davis and Danielle VanDamm's murderer David Westerfield. THESE are the type of offenders you are claiming killed JonBenet. And yet it bears no resemblance to what happened in the Ramsey case at all.
This level of sex offender is the most dangerous type: predatory.
They get IN quickly and OUT just as quickly with they victim.
They do NOT stick around the house for hours writing long and rambling (oh please believe me!!) ransom notes!
Their purpose is one thing - sexual - and it is extremely ugly and violent.
This was NOT the case with JonBenet. Not even close.

This crime was never INTENDED by anyone.
This was a tragic "accident" turned deadly.
By "accident" I mean that someone lashed out at JonBenet in a fit of rage/anger but never intended to fatally injure her.
The head blow is what started this whole chain of sad events - and what precipitated the head blow is still a mystery. A whole host of causes are possible. And none of them exclude any of the 3 family members in the house that night.
 
K777angel said:
This crime was never INTENDED by anyone.
This was a tragic "accident" turned deadly.
By "accident" I mean that someone lashed out at JonBenet in a fit of rage/anger but never intended to fatally injure her.
The head blow is what started this whole chain of sad events - and what precipitated the head blow is still a mystery. A whole host of causes are possible. And none of them exclude any of the 3 family members in the house that night.
Are you suggesting an accident was covered up to look like a capital murder? That goes in the opposite direction of reason.

Reason (and not very much reason) excludes anyone who lives in the house or nearby because they are simply not going to leave any handwritten evidence at a capital murder scene.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Are you suggesting an accident was covered up to look like a capital murder? That goes in the opposite direction of reason.

Reason (and not very much reason) excludes anyone who lives in the house or nearby because they are simply not going to leave any handwritten evidence at a capital murder scene.

I am not suggesting that an accident was "covered up to look like a capital murder" - whatever you mean by that.
What I am suggesting is that whoever got into a fight or bad situation with JonBenet that night and bashed her in the head - did not say to themselves, "I am going to kill JonBenet tonight."
Her death resulted from a beating.
She was "killed" - not "murdered."

Of COURSE someone that is panicked and desperate is going to leave a fake ransom note at the crime scene if that note will help deflect attention away from them!! Keep in mind the handwriting in the note was DISGUISED. Purposely. And - the "kidnapper" made plans to come and kidnap for ransom and yet forgot to bring his note along??? Talk about neglecting to use reason!
 
1. Disposing of the body where it may not be found? Could be that it would have delayed getting the hell out of dodge. You've got to hang around and go on TV and play the role for an extended time while they're missing. Whereas, in the alternative, "Oh, here's the body... gotta run now!" But other scenarios exist also.

2. Why capital murder out of an accident? Of course not in an ordinary accident...but if, say, one happened as part of a scheme as I have previously theorized to cover for sexual abuse injury to JBR, hmmm, that's different...You were already covering up something, and then your crazy scheme kills her. How can you explain that accident...and you've still got to explain the sex abuse thing.

One scenario: We write our note a day or so ahead, get JB ready to take somewhere for discovery/rescue and find when we get her in the garage and open the garage door that there's a bit of snow...Oops! Now they'll see car tracks. We put JB down and think... OK, plan B has to be formed or we'll have to abort the plan. But unfortunately, as we talk and close the garage door, it comes down on JB's head as she lays asleep on her comforter, and a compression fracture of the skull results....Not your usual fracture since the pressure increase builds slowly compared to a blow and there's no visible injury...but the crack of the skull is loud and unmistakable...and she is unresponsive.

At that point, all prior plans disappear and a calmly thought out original plan is given a veneer of panicked grief-stricken coverup. Fortunately, at least, there is already a note to build around. (This is just a possible explanation, of course.)
 
I am reminded of the old Shirley Temple movies. Such a cutie, BUT, and there is nearly always a but to any story, Shirley became OLDER and sweet as the years kept rolling 'but' she was no longer a moppet or toddler. The point of my tale here is that for the Ramseys to FORGET to prep the movie camera for Christmas Videos of JonBenet at one of her final cutest moments and year six of her life, is something that parents so bent of her being a wild success WOULD NEVER have let happened.

IMOP, something of a violent nature OR revealing happened while the camera was rolling. Hence the Christmas video was made to disappear because it was visually pointing fingers at someone in the family that had a HUGE bone to pick with the family Ramsey.

Yep there was an intruder, imop, but 'he' came early on Christmas morning and was IN the family Ramsey missing movie.




.
 
Angel you have hit the nail on the head!

There is only one reason for the ransom letter....how do I explain my daughter's death in my home?

After the blow to the head, there were no visible wounds on JonBenet. Do you immediately call 911 and say my daughter is not breathing? I think my daughter is dead? What would take place after police find a dead little girl? They would search the home for possible entry by an intruder and not find one? They would immediately take the Ramseys to the police station and grill them. Possibly arrest them on suspicion of murder. That was the reality the Ramseys were facing.

As you already know, my belief is that Patsy accidently killed JonBenet. She concocted this kidnapping scenario for one reason only....self preservation. She did not want to go to prison.

Remember the soiled pants found in the bathroom? The soiled panties are missing. JonBenet's bottom was dirty but who cleaned her up? Patsy did. Only a woman knows to clean the folds of the labia. JonBenet did not put "Wednesday" panties on because she could not read. Who would think to put a day-of-the-week panty on her but Patsy. She wanted LE to think that those were the original panties JonBenet wore Christmas day...a wednesday.

So why were those Wednesday panties so important? Because by putting them on JonBenet would hide the fact that she had soiled the other pair and while trying to clean up a kicking and screaming JonBenet, Patsy lost it and hit her over the head with the flashlight.

This scenario happened around midnight...Patsy's usual time for checking on JonBenet and waking her to go use the toilet.

JonBenet hated to be woken and put up a fight when Patsy got her out of bed. When Patsy pulled down JonBenet's panties, lo and behold they were soiled. So in the process of wiping her down and such...a screaming JonBenet finally made Patsy snap.

That is my theory only and I'm sticking to it.
 
Toltec said:
Angel you have hit the nail on the head!

There is only one reason for the ransom letter....how do I explain my daughter's death in my home?

After the blow to the head, there were no visible wounds on JonBenet. Do you immediately call 911 and say my daughter is not breathing? I think my daughter is dead? What would take place after police find a dead little girl? They would search the home for possible entry by an intruder and not find one? They would immediately take the Ramseys to the police station and grill them. Possibly arrest them on suspicion of murder. That was the reality the Ramseys were facing.

As you already know, my belief is that Patsy accidently killed JonBenet. She concocted this kidnapping scenario for one reason only....self preservation. She did not want to go to prison.

Remember the soiled pants found in the bathroom? The soiled panties are missing. JonBenet's bottom was dirty but who cleaned her up? Patsy did. Only a woman knows to clean the folds of the labia. JonBenet did not put "Wednesday" panties on because she could not read. Who would think to put a day-of-the-week panty on her but Patsy. She wanted LE to think that those were the original panties JonBenet wore Christmas day...a wednesday.

So why were those Wednesday panties so important? Because by putting them on JonBenet would hide the fact that she had soiled the other pair and while trying to clean up a kicking and screaming JonBenet, Patsy lost it and hit her over the head with the flashlight.

This scenario happened around midnight...Patsy's usual time for checking on JonBenet and waking her to go use the toilet.

JonBenet hated to be woken and put up a fight when Patsy got her out of bed. When Patsy pulled down JonBenet's panties, lo and behold they were soiled. So in the process of wiping her down and such...a screaming JonBenet finally made Patsy snap.

That is my theory only and I'm sticking to it.
There are no missing panties. Unless there in the same vault with the enhanced 911 call.

So the woman who survived cancer just so she could watch her to young children grow lost it over bedwetting and hit her over the head with a flashlight so hard it left a inch hole in her skull.

"Only a woman knows how to clean the folds of the labia"?

"They would search the home for possible entry by an intruder and not find one?"

Then why not supply one instead of writing a three page RN? Break a window, open a door.

Why do you hate PR so much that you would belive this?
 
Do you suppose Patsy normally kept a big ol' Maglite in JonBenet's bathroom?

She must have. Otherwise she would have to run and get one from the kitchen? garage? and then come back upstairs and bash a still? screaming and kicking JonBenet over the head.
 
aussiesheila said:
Well Zman,

This is a different angle to be coming from. People have had said of what I say about Patsy that they find it hard to believe, I presume because they have never come across anyone in their lives like that. I have to say to you that I find it hard to believe (and I'm sure it's for the same reason) that there could be a person such as you suggest, who in hating someone would want to hurt them indirectly by brutally torturing and killing their child. I feel that any hatred would be best satisfied by attacking the person directly. But I might be wrong and have to admit that it is possible they might exist.

So what further evidence is there to point to an intruder such as this?
I have to say, I think the perfect way to get at someone you hated would be to take something of their's that they loved and treasured.
But because of the Ramsey's lying and their generally suspect behaviour, it makes it hard to think that what happened to JonBenet happened to her because someone hated her father.
 
Criminal Profiler Roger L. Depue, Chief of the FBI's Behavioural Science Unit, at Quantico, who on retirement, went onto setup an elite forensics company The Academy Group, was requested by Bert Brown, who was acting as a consultant on behalf of Boulder DA's office, to review and offer an opinion on JonBenet's homicide, specifically with respect to the ransom note. The following is a summary account.

Roger was sent a photocopy of the two and half page note, written on a legal pad. The question asked , was what type of person might have written it?

Roger's view was that the ransom note was a crime scene in and of itself, hard physical evidence that remained as fresh as it was on the day it was found. And it could be interpreted. The written word word is human behaviour, like any other behaviour, and it will betray the traits and characteristics of the writer.

In two decades of analyzing written crime scene evidence I'd never seen a two-and-a-half-page, hand printed ransom note. Never. Thats how unusual it was. Criminals who write ransom notes are trying to get across only the information that they need to. Anything else is superfluous, and only going to give more clues about their identity, and theres no need need to write an opus. A real kidnapper has no interest in revealing the kind of information that this note did. According to my analysis, here are some telling characteristics:

The note begins with a formal salutation, followed by an exclamation point. The author wants the reader to 'hear' the message, as if the material will be spoken or read to someone.

"a group of individuals" - this usually means one person trying to appear as a group.

"a small foreign faction" - foreign to whom? A meaningless phrase.

"respect your bussiness" - misspelled, but shows an awareness of John Ramsey's business.

"posession" - again, shows the authors proclivity for misspelling double S words.

"but not the country it serves" - a political statement inappropriate to the goal of ransom.

"withdraw $118,000.00 from your account" - shows proprietary information, i.e. knowledge of the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus, and that it is in a bank account rather than somewhere else, as in other investments.

"Make sure you bring an adequate size attache to the bank" and "I advise you to be rested" - both maternal sounding remarks. Shows motherly feeling. Also, why 'attache' and not the more common 'attache case'?

"You will...be...denied burial" - more likely to be said by a female than a male. Also suggests the victim is already dead. If the victim is still alive, burial would be the least of anyone's concerns.

"gentlemen" and "watching over" - again, more likely to be used by a female.

"fat cat" - an expression common in the 1950's and 1960's. Indicates a writer in the forty-something bracket.

"Use that good southern common sense of yours" - a phrase not likely to come to mind from a Northerner. The writer is likely from the South, and knows that Ramsey is too.

"Victory!" - Inappropriate. Meaningless for a kidnap ransom note. A clumsy attempt to sound like a terrorist.

"S.B.T.C." - no known organization, and no explanation of the acronym.

"at this time," "to the letter" "hence" - habitual expressions.

In addition, the three exclamation points and other punctuation indicate a relatively educated, literate writer. The sophisticated vocabulary (faction, monitor, deviation, provoke, countermeasures, etc) and grammar (largely correct) also point to a educated person.

The gradual shift from "I" to "we" in the second paragraph makes it doubtful that the writer is from a group, let alone a group of terrorists. In addition, the note doesn't demand enough money (considering the Ramsey's wealth) for taking a kidnapping risk. And its overall tone, which becomes more threatening throughout, suggests someone on intimate terms with John Ramsey to chide him. "Dont try to grow a brain John". My overwhelming feeling about this note is that there is too much Hollywood in it. Good people make bad criminals, and the note smacks of inauthenticity. It shows a low level of criminal sophistication, and was most likely witten to distract authorities from conducting an immediate investigation of the complete home, which it did.

There was certainly a lot of crime scene information, other than than this note, to process. We know for example, that the killer apparently took the time to write a practise note which began: "Dear Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey.". But just sticking to the written material given to me, I could tell a lot. My analysis indicated that, operationally, the note was prepared without much planning, and contained inconsistencies not expected in a bona fide kidnap demand note; psychologically the perpetrator was sane and stable, but distressed, and of low criminal compotence. Furthermore, my profile of the writer revealed someone who was in all likelihood white, female, Southern, well educated, middle-aged, and who knew John Ramsey, his personal life, and business, quite well.

A similar account and profile was transmitted to the DA's office via Bert Brown.



From the above analysis I accept that it is very unlikely that the ransom note was written, by either a teenager or a preteen. Also that the above profile was available to the DA's office, probably filed with a status of 'private advice'.
 
UKGuy said:
The writer is likely from the South, and knows that Ramsey is too.
Some of you may know that as far as Im concerned. Profilers are stealing money.

JR is not from the south. Born in Nebraska and educated in Michigan.

This profiler has just cleared PR.
 
I am not a profiler but I can tell you two things for certain.

#1 The note was written after Jon Benet was already dead.

#2 It was written by someone directly involved in her murder and had a need to deflect attention to someone outside of the home.
 
Linda7NJ said:
I am not a profiler but I can tell you two things for certain.

#1 The note was written after Jon Benet was already dead.

#2 It was written by someone directly involved in her murder and had a need to deflect attention to someone outside of the home.
I agree with #2. But what makes you so sure the note was written after she was dead? There's a school of thought that the intruder wrote it while waiting for the Ramsey's to return home...
 

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