What Do You Want to Know?: List Questions Here

[whiterhino]

I've been reading through a few of the threads here (& cases involving Canadians in general) and have a few comments/questions.

Was there any water found in her lungs? (I haven't gotten to the autopsy report yet) No signs of sexual assault? I read there was a bruise on her knee. No torn fingernails, as if to suggest being trapped & clawing to escape? From what I understand there was only a ladder on the *exterior* of the tank (have yet to read the tank thread).

Were there any indications of sexual assault or robbery? What are the odds that someone would murder her with neither sexual or monetary motivation? I am not leaning either way or implying anything because it's equally hard to understand if this were self-inflicted or an accident.

The only way I can comprehend this to be accidental or self-inflicted is if she were on some kind of medication, maybe bought some bad drugs, went wandering to the roof & for whatever reason went nosing around the water tank & fell in due to lack of coordination or dulled motor skills/poor reaction time. In this case there should have been bruising on her hands or abrasions on her fingers from possibly pounding on the tank. If the tank were to fill with water or the level was over her head she could have drowned from exhaustion (how likely?) or as I said with drugs/alcohol she may have passed out?

As another poster said, if she was suicidal why not jump off the roof or hang herself or I don't know, buy a gun? One of the first posts I read was that she went to California for a meetup but wasn't intended to stop in L.A. Something is not right.

 

[TB Rhine]

Good grief, yes, there is loads about her serious mental illness, what medications she was prescribed, etc.

I found this out later, of course, via additional searching. Hey, what wonderful information to maybe have included in the "Facts" thread! *sound of a wet fart*

The accident (or suicide) theory still doesn't make any kind of intuitive sense to me. We're talking about a tall metal tank with a little human-sized hatch at the top, and it wasn't even supposed to have been filled high enough for the water to be anywhere near the top. How is that in any way attractive as a swimming hole? Also, again, not a good prospect for a suicide jump when she could just as easily have lept off the roof. Now all this is mitigated somewhat, of course, if we assume the girl was in some kind of compromised mental state... but that very compromised state would've made it more, not less, difficult for her to make it to the roof, climb up one tank and then step over onto the other, etc. The whole thing just seems very convoluted to me, and not at all the sort of thing a mentally impaired person could've conceived of or pulled off.

 

[Doyo Wide Gekijo]

I found this out later, of course, via additional searching. Hey, what wonderful information to maybe have included in the "Facts" thread! *sound of a wet fart*

The accident (or suicide) theory still doesn't make any kind of intuitive sense to me. We're talking about a tall metal tank with a little human-sized hatch at the top, and it wasn't even supposed to have been filled high enough for the water to be anywhere near the top. How is that in any way attractive as a swimming hole? Also, again, not a good prospect for a suicide jump when she could just as easily have lept off the roof. Now all this is mitigated somewhat, of course, if we assume the girl was in some kind of compromised mental state... but that very compromised state would've made it more, not less, difficult for her to make it to the roof, climb up one tank and then step over onto the other, etc. The whole thing just seems very convoluted to me, and not at all the sort of thing a mentally impaired person could've conceived of or pulled off.

You know... the first week or so I would have totally agreed with you. But only by reading on more and more in depth the things she wrote in her blogs etc, you get the feeling of how "alone" she felt. She felt (from what I read) that her life online, her friends online understood her. Whereas real life just didn't get it. Some of her posts are pretty dramatic. Such a far cry from what I initially thought... viewing her video made me feel like she was crying out for someone to solve her mystery.

I still don't know what I believe.. I'm just saying the suicide theory I could possibly swallow now.

 

[Userid]

I found this out later, of course, via additional searching. Hey, what wonderful information to maybe have included in the "Facts" thread! *sound of a wet fart*

The accident (or suicide) theory still doesn't make any kind of intuitive sense to me. We're talking about a tall metal tank with a little human-sized hatch at the top, and it wasn't even supposed to have been filled high enough for the water to be anywhere near the top. How is that in any way attractive as a swimming hole? Also, again, not a good prospect for a suicide jump when she could just as easily have lept off the roof. Now all this is mitigated somewhat, of course, if we assume the girl was in some kind of compromised mental state... but that very compromised state would've made it more, not less, difficult for her to make it to the roof, climb up one tank and then step over onto the other, etc. The whole thing just seems very convoluted to me, and not at all the sort of thing a mentally impaired person could've conceived of or pulled off.

All due respect here, but no, it really would not have. There was a simple push-bar door to access the roof. It did have an alarm, but it can not be confirmed that it was activated. Hotel workers used to use that door to smoke; and a filmmaker accessed the roof via the door after Elisa had been found. In the film, the alarm didn't go off. That hotel is an utter mess and not run properly, hence the cheap rate per night.

She could have accessed the roof via the fire escape as well, but I don't think she did. She was making her way to the roof via the stairs, where she came across the door.

There's no motive for murder here. There are no signs of rape or trauma of any kind: zero. The only way you could think murder was involved was if you believe that a person simply wanted to watch an out-of-towner drown and persuaded her to get into the tank on her own accord, which makes no sense to me.

 

[Userid]

You know... the first week or so I would have totally agreed with you. But only by reading on more and more in depth the things she wrote in her blogs etc, you get the feeling of how "alone" she felt. She felt (from what I read) that her life online, her friends online understood her. Whereas real life just didn't get it. Some of her posts are pretty dramatic. Such a far cry from what I initially thought... viewing her video made me feel like she was crying out for someone to solve her mystery.

I still don't know what I believe.. I'm just saying the suicide theory I could possibly swallow now.

Not only that, but from her blog it was ascertained that she was really into a video game (forgot the title now) where the character basically shoots down water pipes to travel to different destinations.

 

[Scout66]

I think she was murdered....

However, my question is:
Did any hotel staff leave their job after Elisa's death? Did anyone that worked at the Hotel quit, or get fired shortly after Elisa went missing, or after her body was discovered?

Sorry if this question was already asked....

 

[Imagining]

I truely don't believe that it was an accident! Impossible!

 

[Montjoy]

I truely don't believe that it was an accident! Impossible!

It wasn't -- the MOD was determined to be suicide. There are plenty of posts and articles to substantiate this.

 

[Magneto]

Wierd makes no sense how she got into the tank

 

[awakeandaware]

It is pretty clear that EL was having some of mental/emotional issues. Jan 31st EL was moved to a private room due to the fact that she was making guests in the hostel uncomfortable.
1. What was the extent that other guests were bothered by her behavior? Was there an argument, hurt feelings ect? Could this be a result of bullying?
2. How many others were staying in the hostel? Were they male or female? Were they seen hanging out with EL?
3. Was there any elevator footage that put any guests or hotel staff other then EL near the roof in the evening of Jan. 31?
4. Why wouldn't EL remove her clothing before entering the water if it was her intent to swim in the water tank and get out and walk to her room?
5. Was EL found completely nude? Did she remove her clothing while in the tank to make it easier to climb out of the water? Why would you remove your panties and watch? 10feet is a long drop if the tank is only 1/2 - 3/4 full. How did she think she would get out.
6. Wouldn't it be scary (and cold) to jump into a pitch black tank of cold water at night? Who would want to do that? I'm sure that there isn't a light source up there.
7. The maintenance man stated that indeed the lid to the tank was off when he found EL. If the lid was open, why couldn't LE and the dogs smell EL's decomposing body after it had been floating in that tank a week? If the tank lid was closed then how did EL get it closed after jumping into the tank?
8. On EL's tumbler on Jan. 31st there is a reference to men using the "C" word and then graffiti being found near the water tanks referring to the "C" word. Did the graffiti have anything to do with EL? Did she write it?
9. If the roof is secure alarmed ect. How did graffiti end up on the roof? Is it a party spot for hostel kids or residents.
10. Was there a feud/strife between the "stay on main" group and the long term residents? Were there established territories between these groups?
11. Did separate tanks send water to separate areas of the hotel? (For instance did tank 1 send water to floors 1-5) Would there be a reason to poison the water of a select group of people? If so...who would have such details?
12. How would EL get to the roof by herself? She was unsteady getting into the elevator. Would she climb a fire escape feeling unsteady if she didn't have to? If she didn't use a fire escape then she either found the door to the roof unlocked, or someone was with her and had a key, or gave her a key. Who would do that?
14. What is with the time stamp in the elevator footage. Why was the footage chopped up, stretched out, in other words...edited? Why...why, why??
15. Was she wearing her bed clothes in the video? She was so fashion conscious I can't see her wearing that out on the town. Was she coaxed to the roof by someone from her room? Sleep walking...as some have suggested? Was she strolling around the hotel in the middle of the night, maybe made her way up to the residences and got herself in trouble???
16. Who were the two men that brought EL back to the hotel that night? What was in the box they handed her?
17. Was EL dead in that water tank for 19 days? That is a long time for a body in water. Wouldn't you be able to smell it even with the lid on? Is it possible that she was being held somewhere in the hotel part of that time?

These are some of the questions that haunt me in this case.

 

[Userid]

^ What is your source for this information (EL was moved to another room for misbehavior) above? Please cite and/or please specify if this is mere speculation or actual fact.

 

[awakeandaware]

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/elis...but-the-obsession-with-her-death-lives-on-511

"Three days into her stay at The Cecil—the last day she was seen alive—Lam was moved from a hostel-style room to a private one on the same floor after her roommates complained of "odd behavior," according to a statement attributed to hotel manager Amy Price in recent court documents.''

It opens the door for the possibility that there was motive. I would like to know more about the situation.

 

[Userid]

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/elis...but-the-obsession-with-her-death-lives-on-511

"Three days into her stay at The Cecil—the last day she was seen alive—Lam was moved from a hostel-style room to a private one on the same floor after her roommates complained of "odd behavior," according to a statement attributed to hotel manager Amy Price in recent court documents.''

It opens the door for the possibility that there was motive. I would like to know more about the situation.

Huh, very interesting -- I had never known that. But, if anything, all this does is simply prove even more that Elisa state of mind was deteriorating profoundly that day; which gives all the more credence to the fact that this tragedy was caused by her own hand. This is proof that something was "off" within Elisa that day.

 

[neesaki]

How could this happen?

So this apparently disturbed girl who was possibly delusional and / or confused by her mental illness and/ or her medications and/or any other drugs she may have consumed was able to:

1) know the tanks were on the rooftop in the first place
2) then able to make her way to the rooftop through a locked door
3) then able to find her way to the top of a tall water tank and then get into a small hole in the top to the inside of the water tank.

All of this while she was so confused, etc., while most people couldn't accomplish an act of this sort if they were completely normal.

Bizarre. Really, bizarre. I guess stranger things have happened, though not many. jmo

 

[neesaki]

All due respect here, but no, it really would not have. There was a simple push-bar door to access the roof. It did have an alarm, but it can not be confirmed that it was activated. Hotel workers used to use that door to smoke; and a filmmaker accessed the roof via the door after Elisa had been found. In the film, the alarm didn't go off. That hotel is an utter mess and not run properly, hence the cheap rate per night.

She could have accessed the roof via the fire escape as well, but I don't think she did. She was making her way to the roof via the stairs, where she came across the door.

There's no motive for murder here. There are no signs of rape or trauma of any kind: zero. The only way you could think murder was involved was if you believe that a person simply wanted to watch an out-of-towner drown and persuaded her to get into the tank on her own accord, which makes no sense to me.

With all due respect, since when do murderers have to have a motive? I just say this because murders are committed all too frequently with no "motive". Also, just because there's no actual physical evidence doesn't mean there wasn't foul play involved. That also happens much too frequently. Not to mention that due to where her body was, the length of time it was there and decomposing, that in itself destroyed much if not all physical evidence. I just find it hard to buy into the presumption that she committed suicide with no more evidence to go on than I have seen. It's a very, very strange case, and I don't think LE solved it at all, but by declaring it as "accidental" (suicide) they did get rid of it. JMO

 

[Montjoy]

How could this happen?

So this apparently disturbed girl who was possibly delusional and / or confused by her mental illness and/ or her medications and/or any other drugs she may have consumed was able to:

1) know the tanks were on the rooftop in the first place
2) then able to make her way to the rooftop through a locked door
3) then able to find her way to the top of a tall water tank and then get into a small hole in the top to the inside of the water tank.

All of this while she was so confused, etc., while most people couldn't accomplish an act of this sort if they were completely normal.

Bizarre. Really, bizarre. I guess stranger things have happened, though not many. jmo

You make some assumptions.

1) EL doesn't need to know, in advance, that there are tanks before she drowns in them. She was experiencing acute mental illness.
2) There have been many posts in this sub-forum that have shown that it was not at all difficult to reach the roof. Please read some more.
3) EL had no defensive wounds, and it would have been difficult for anyone to have placed her in the tank against her will. Do we really need to subject her family to further groundless speculation about her being a victim to anything other than her well-documented mental illness? Perhaps you do. I do not.

 

[neesaki]

You make some assumptions.

1) EL doesn't need to know, in advance, that there are tanks before she drowns in them. She was experiencing acute mental illness.
2) There have been many posts in this sub-forum that have shown that it was not at all difficult to reach the roof. Please read some more.
3) EL had no defensive wounds, and it would have been difficult for anyone to have placed her in the tank against her will. Do we really need to subject her family to further groundless speculation about her being a victim to anything other than her well-documented mental illness? Perhaps you do. I do not.

Defensive wounds? Why would she necessarily have defensive wounds? What if she had been drugged then placed there? And why is discussing the case subjecting her family to groundless speculation? They don't have to read here unless they choose to. If they do, they obviously still have doubts about the cause of her death. And personally, if it were my daughter, I would have strong doubts.

 

[Montjoy]

Defensive wounds? Why would she necessarily have defensive wounds? What if she had been drugged then placed there? And why is discussing the case subjecting her family to groundless speculation? They don't have to read here unless they choose to. If they do, they obviously still have doubts about the cause of her death. And personally, if it were my daughter, I would have strong doubts.

Eh -- I'm sorry, did I miss the part of the toxicology where it was stated that she was drugged?

Oh, I guess I didn't -- there is no evidence to suggest that she was drugged.

And so a lot of the speculation here is groundless -- or, more to the point, it is ignoring the evidence that has already been discovered.

I'm not going to guess about her family or their motivations. They're grieving. But I think it's highly inappropriate and insensitive to give them any groundless reason to grieve more.

 

[neesaki]

Eh -- I'm sorry, did I miss the part of the toxicology where it was stated that she was drugged?

Oh, I guess I didn't -- there is no evidence to suggest that she was drugged.

And so a lot of the speculation here is groundless -- or, more to the point, it is ignoring the evidence that has already been discovered.

I'm not going to guess about her family or their motivations. They're grieving. But I think it's highly inappropriate and insensitive to give them any groundless reason to grieve more.

What I have read regarding toxicology is that quantification in the blood was not performed due to limited sample availability therefore interpretation is limited. Is that not correct?

 

[margarita25]

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/elis...but-the-obsession-with-her-death-lives-on-511

"Three days into her stay at The Cecil—the last day she was seen alive—Lam was moved from a hostel-style room to a private one on the same floor after her roommates complained of "odd behavior," according to a statement attributed to hotel manager Amy Price in recent court documents.''

It opens the door for the possibility that there was motive. I would like to know more about the situation.

First I'm hearing about these roommates as well. Thanks for posting.


Also from the above link:

"A city ordinancethwarted Cordova's plans, requiring the building—designated as a residential hotel—to reserve half its units for low-income tenants. Meanwhile, the other half of the building was marketed as "the hippest boutique hotel and hostel in downtown Los Angeles,"according to its website, which advertises Xbox games, a Netflix movie lounge, and free WiFi to young international travelers like Lam. The boutique half of the hotel even has its own entrance separate from the Cecil's long-term tenants. The elevator, however, remains shared territory."

Where was this movie lounge? Also, interesting that the elevator was shared.