What evidence does the prosecution have?

[LambChop]

Baltimore Maryland, where apparently only criminals carry guns, has the 2nd highest crime rate (top ten), in the US for 2012, Florida cities didn't make the list.

Just a quick glance at this page shows NINE shootings in one day (17th), and FIVE shootings on the 22nd, in Baltimore. I'm not sure I would be singing the praises of Maryland's CWP laws. JMO

As this relates to what the prosecution has, GZ had every right to carry his weapon in Florida and to stand his ground and/or defend himself. The fact that he was carrying his gun, will not be part of the prosecutions case. Just because Neighborhood watch has a "rule" that volunteers are not to carry a gun, it's still just a rule, not a law. JMO.
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BBM: Police department crime prevention units will he happy to hear that all over the US. I can see the signs coming down now. jmo

 

[tehcloser]

This is not evidence of who initially attacked who though. GZ does not deny that he fired the bullet that killed TM.

bbm

If he tries to say they were struggling for the gun and it went off, he would be doing exactly that.

 

[Karmady]

BBM: Police department crime prevention units will he happy to hear that all over the US. I can see the signs coming down now. jmo

I don't think it will be news to them, either. jmo

 

[LynnM]

This is not evidence of who initially attacked who though. GZ does not deny that he fired the bullet that killed TM.

No of course it's not. My point to the other poster is that I do not have to 'accept' that Trayvon attacked first because GZ has injuries any more than he or she has to accept that GZ is guilty of murder because he shot Trayvon.

 

[wishuwerehere]

IMO it is not reasonable to believe that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Afterall, Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon. Therefore, I do not believe SYG will come into play through the judge’s ruling nor will a jury have reasonable doubt. Zimmerman: Guilty.

jmo

 

[vlpate]

GZ didn't call 911, he called the non-emergency number. I don't believe GZ set out to kill Trayvon, but I believe that he wasn't going to let "another @sshole get away." And, he didn't. I believe GZ is very surprised that Trayvon didn't have anything on him, wasn't on drugs, wasn't trying to break in to a place, etc..but, it was too late. JMO

ETA: Again, I think his own statements are going to be the thing that does him in. JMO

He didn't say, "this @$$*** is not going to get away", as if he was going to make sure of it. He said, "these @$$*** always get away", as if resigned to another one getting away.

JMO

 

[Phoenixfla]

Well, it was dark and the gun was black. So the encounter witnessed hearing the scuffle before the line went dead. A witness who claims she saw two people run past her door towards the place where TM was found. I doubt if GZ was running towards TM condo when in his statement he said he was headed towards his car. One grabs the other and in this case GZ was the only one with a motive to keep TM from getting away. They fall, John sees the struggle and hears GZ yell for help, there is screaming and seconds later the shot was fired. All of this in 45 seconds.

I think GZ fell trying to stop TM from running home and injured himself in the fall. I think either TM fell on top or was able to get on top of him and then saw the gun and started the screaming.

Somewhere in the DA's office is a board with times on it, all the 911 information, the witness statements, GZ's statements and I can just visualize them as they pieced second by second together as they were able to gather their information.

Up to the point TM was on the phone there is just no way this young man was planning on attacking GZ. In those 45 seconds it was way more beneficial to GZ to have TM stay right where he was than to let TM take off running. It's possible what the gf heard was TM starting to run away from GZ and the call disconnected. jmo

If GZ was running after TM, and fell (presumable TM was in front of GZ trying to get away) then how did TM fall on top of GZ? If TM "was able to get on top of him", why would he NEED to get on top of GZ? I mean, if GZ fell, why wouldn't TM just continue running?

 

[vlpate]

IMO it is not reasonable to believe that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Afterall, Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon. Therefore, I do not believe SYG will come into play through the judge’s ruling nor will a jury have reasonable doubt. Zimmerman: Guilty.

jmo

Pursuing does not void the defense, as has been proved in many Florida cases.

 

[RANCH]

IMO it is not reasonable to believe that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Afterall, Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon. Therefore, I do not believe SYG will come into play through the judge’s ruling nor will a jury have reasonable doubt. Zimmerman: Guilty.

jmo

BBM
How strong of evidence does the prosecution have that GZ was pursuing Trayvon at the time they made physical contact?

 

[Phoenixfla]

bbm

If he tries to say they were struggling for the gun and it went off, he would be doing exactly that.

Well thats kinda out of left field. He has never stated that the gun went off by accident.

 

[lauriej]

He didn't say, "this @$$*** is not going to get away", as if he was going to make sure of it. He said, "these @$$*** always get away", as if resigned to another one getting away.

JMO

--we do know, based on his actions, that approx. 30 seconds after saying "these azzholes always get away"----he was in pursuit ,w/ his flashlight, as trayvon was running 'down towards the other entrance of the neighbourhood'.

--IMO, he wasn't 'resigned to another one getting away' at that point.

 

[Phoenixfla]

No of course it's not. My point to the other poster is that I do not have to 'accept' that Trayvon attacked first because GZ has injuries any more than he or she has to accept that GZ is guilty of murder because he shot Trayvon.

I can respect that, but the jury won't be considering IF GZ killed TM, IMO what they will be considering is:

1) Is there evidence that GZ started the physical confrontation
(please note I did not state evidence of who started the physical confrontation, because IMO there are three conclusions the Jury can come to:
a)GZ started it
b)TM started it
c)They dont have enough evidence to determine started it.
My guess is c.

2) Was GZ in fear for his life when he used his gun.
My guess is that he was.

 

[vlpate]

BBM: Police department crime prevention units will he happy to hear that all over the US. I can see the signs coming down now. jmo

The rule is to protect the NW from liability. When you see a pool sign that says "no running or diving", it does not mean the owner of the pool is worried you will hurt yourself, they want to lessen their liability in the event that you do. JMO

 

[vlpate]

--we do know, based on his actions, that approx. 30 seconds after saying "these azzholes always get away"----he was in pursuit ,w/ his flashlight, as trayvon was running 'down towards the other entrance of the neighbourhood'.

--IMO, he wasn't 'resigned to another one getting away' at that point.

Possibly to watch him with no intent to confront and kill him. In all of his 46 calls to law enforcement in 7 years, he never once confronted anyone (going by police reports), but he did try to keep an eye on a few while reporting to LE.

 

[wishuwerehere]

Pursuing does not void the defense, as has been proved in many Florida cases.

However, pursuing with a loaded gun..., pursuing someone who was doing harm to no one..., pursuing someone who was not engaged in criminal activity... I do not believe Zimmerman's defense will raise reasonable doubt for a judge or a jury.

jmo

 

[wishuwerehere]

BBM
How strong of evidence does the prosecution have that GZ was pursuing Trayvon at the time they made physical contact?

AFAIK, the girlfriend's testimony.

jmo

 

[tehcloser]

Well thats kinda out of left field. He has never stated that the gun went off by accident.

Actually GZ nor his lawyer have said much........it wouldn't surprise me if this comes out.

 

[vlpate]

Well, it was dark and the gun was black. So the encounter witnessed hearing the scuffle before the line went dead. A witness who claims she saw two people run past her door towards the place where TM was found."

The investigator was very ambiguous about this witness during the bond hearing, is her statement online somewhere? Is this the witness that was on CNN in shadows?

I think GZ fell trying to stop TM from running home and injured himself in the fall. I think either TM fell on top or was able to get on top of him and then saw the gun and started the screaming.

He fell backward, hitting his head, while running forward?

Somewhere in the DA's office is a board with times on it, all the 911 information, the witness statements, GZ's statements and I can just visualize them as they pieced second by second together as they were able to gather their information.

Up to the point TM was on the phone there is just no way this young man was planning on attacking GZ. In those 45 seconds it was way more beneficial to GZ to have TM stay right where he was than to let TM take off running. It's possible what the gf heard was TM starting to run away from GZ and the call disconnected. jmo

BEM: I'm assuming you mean by holding a gun on him?

 

[RANCH]

AFAIK, the girlfriend's testimony.

jmo

Her testimony isn't very strong to me. She didn't see GZ pursuing Trayvon or who made physical contact first. JMO.

 

[vlpate]

BBM
How strong of evidence does the prosecution have that GZ was pursuing Trayvon at the time they made physical contact?

They have no evidence that he was pursuing TM when they made physical contact. The investigator for the prosecution testified to this. According to him, they have no evidence or eyewitnesses to conflict with GZ's statement that he was headed back toward his car when the dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow TM.