What evidence does the prosecution have?

[vlpate]

The 5th Amendment states that no one may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law..

As far as I know, GZ isn't the law....

This is a correct statement. GZ is not the law, however, he is a citizen of the United States and as such, has the right to act on his own behalf to engage in violence for the sake of defending his own life, including the use of deadly force. That's the law.

I know, TM had that same right, but there's no concrete proof, as it stands, of who violated the other's right to defend themselves that night. Eyewitnesses and local LE say GZ. The prosecution has a body, a shell casing, and GZ's statements which do not conflict with the eyewitness statements. The M2 charge is ludicrous. IMO

 

[vlpate]

I put this Quote in the Timeline but maybe it should be here:
One has to question everything that GZ said and did. Just because he said Trayvon started to run, Trayvon was walking toward him, Trayvon had his hand in his wasteband, he (GZ) lost sight of Trayvon, he (GZ) started back to his truck, and Trayvon ambushed him where the sidewalks meet...doesn't mean that any of that actually happened.

GZ would have us believe that he and Trayvon somehow started fisticuffs at the crossing of the sidewalks and ended up three buildings down and 70 yards from Trayvon's backdoor. Did they log roll the distance or did Trayvon try to get home and GZ chased after him? Or did Trayvon make it all the way to his sliding glass door and find it locked? Did GZ confront him on his patio and Trayvon took off running away from the man with the gun?

Really, what makes more sense?

Knowing where Trayvon's phone was found is going to make all the difference in the world.

It was in his pocket when the altercation took place, I would imagine it was in his pocket when he was found.

ETA: It was in his pocket: http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com...ents-say-he-was-headed-on-the-right-path?lite

 

[who]

It was in his pocket when the altercation took place, I would imagine it was in his pocket when he was found.

ETA: It was in his pocket: http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com...ents-say-he-was-headed-on-the-right-path?lite

I would not take that statement as hard evidence it was found in his pocket.

Not at all.

 

[MaryAnn]

This is a correct statement. GZ is not the law, however, he is a citizen of the United States and as such, has the right to act on his own behalf to engage in violence for the sake of defending his own life, including the use of deadly force. That's the law.

I know, TM had that same right, but there's no concrete proof, as it stands, of who violated the other's right to defend themselves that night. Eyewitnesses and local LE say GZ. The prosecution has a body, a shell casing, and GZ's statements which do not conflict with the eyewitness statements. The M2 charge is ludicrous. IMO

BBM
It is. It should be 1st degree murder.

If you are saying you don't know who violated who's rights why is it a given that GZ is in the right and TM in the wrong?? I would think people would side with the Minor who was unarmed walking home from the store with ice tea and skiddles. Why would anyone side with a bully who is armed patroling for those "***holes who always get away"?

 

[RANCH]

BBM
It is. It should be 1st degree murder.

If you are saying you don't know who violated who's rights why is it a given that GZ is in the right and TM in the wrong?? I would think people would side with the Minor who was unarmed walking home from the store with ice tea and skiddles. Why would anyone side with a bully who is armed patroling for those "***holes who always get away"?

I would think that if the state had evidence of premeditated murder or aggravated stalking they would have charged GZ with those crimes. If this case goes to a plea deal the state would want to start with the highest charges that they could. I believe that's why they charged GZ with murder 2 and not manslaughter like a lot of people expected. JMO.

 

[vlpate]

V, I try to stay out of as much of the fray as much as I can. CLEARLY Trayvon had enough time to run home. The only difference would be whether that would or wouldn't play into a jury's concerns at deliberation.

I'm not intentionally trying to change anyone's words or statements. I'm not trying to come up with any EUREKA moment. I'm just trying to point out and illustrate what these various people have actually told us.

Personally, I can't imagine how a story could be laid out in detailed fashion as to George's path of movement that night that seems to conflict with what we all have heard in the 911 call.

I can't imagine how a murder suspect's father could say the attack, which justified his son's killing of TM, happened "where the sidewalks meet" while his son's own attorney VOLUNTEERS, in the Bond Hearing, the information that the body was found half a football field's distance away from those sidewalk's meeting point.

Maybe there's some kind of explanation for these irregularities, IDK, but it seems to me they should try and find one before being in front of a jury.

It's likely the jury will not be concerned with what GZ's father and pretend attorney said on CNN or FOX, or any of the others. LE has never released this information, so who knows, maybe after the doc dump it will all become clear!

I was actually asking, based on your calculations, if the time it would take to run 210 ft would be approximately 24 seconds. You can ignore this part PP, but to anyone else interested, it would seem, by PP's calculations, TM could have run home and back approx 3 times between the time GZ lost sight of him, and when they met up again. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Just K]

The reason I say that the location where Trayvon's phone was found will be important is because it has been stated time and time again that the only thing in his pockets was a can of tea, a packet of Skittles and $22.00. If I am not mistaken, that is what was written in the Police Report or Press release.

Whether his ear piece was still on his ear or in his ear, depending on the type, will also be very telling. ALL IMO, of course.

 

[vlpate]

If you had someone following you that you didn't know and had no idea why they were following you you might presume they were going to hurt you, rob you or maybe just kill you for no reason at all. Maybe Trayvon didn't run because he didn't want a bullet in his back!!

Trayvon was a young Man and Men are raised to be brave and strong and not be cowards. That's probably why Trayvon was asking why GZ was following him in the first place and when he didn't get an answer I'm sure he knew that GZ was up to no good. Even if Trayvon did throw the first punch (not saying he did) but if so I don't blame him one bit. He was scared for his life and why isn't Trayvon allowed the benefit of the doubt for applying the SYG law? Trayvon has the same rights as GZ to Stand His Ground!!!

BEM: GZ had a right to be there, he had stopped following, even according to the SA investigator, they have nothing to conflict with GZ's statement that he was walking back to his truck, so, on what grounds would TM be standing his ground? Following is not a criminal act.

 

[RANCH]

It's likely the jury will not be concerned with what GZ's father and pretend attorney said on CNN or FOX, or any of the others. LE has never released this information, so who knows, maybe after the doc dump it will all become clear!

I was actually asking, based on your calculations, if the time it would take to run 210 ft would be approximately 24 seconds. You can ignore this part PP, but to anyone else interested, it would seem, by PP's calculations, TM could have run home and back approx 3 times between the time GZ lost sight of him, and when they met up again. Just doesn't make sense.

BBM
I also hope to see some REAL evidence to help us understand what happened. If the state has to resort to using statements made by peripheral people on TV to support their case then their in big trouble. JMO.

 

[LambChop]

If GZ walking down the sidewalk at the cut through and intersection did not see TM it appears he could have been hiding on a porch until GZ came back and was headed back towards the car. Had TM run down that center sidewalk he would have had GZ after him and TM may have guessed that if he heard the car door shut. When he tells his gf that he thinks he lost him may have been when GZ headed back on the cut through. Thinking he was safe he may have stepped off the porch only to be spotted by GZ when he doubled back. That could explain the time difference and the fact that GZ did not see TM running down that center sidewalk area. He was on the phone with LE had he seen TM he would have said so. So I think TM was hiding until he thought GZ had gone back to the car. jmo

 

[highflyer]

This is a correct statement. GZ is not the law, however, he is a citizen of the United States and as such, has the right to act on his own behalf to engage in violence for the sake of defending his own life, including the use of deadly force. That's the law.

I know, TM had that same right, but there's no concrete proof, as it stands, of who violated the other's right to defend themselves that night. Eyewitnesses and local LE say GZ. The prosecution has a body, a shell casing, and GZ's statements which do not conflict with the eyewitness statements. The M2 charge is ludicrous. IMO

I think the M2 charge is ludicrous too.

 

[Reader]

775.087 Possession or use of weapon; aggravated battery; felony reclassification; minimum sentence.—

(1) Unless otherwise provided by law, whenever a person is charged with a felony, except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element, and during the commission of such felony the defendant carries, displays, uses, threatens to use, or attempts to use any weapon or firearm, or during the commission of such felony the defendant commits an aggravated battery, the felony for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:

2. Any person who is convicted of a felony or an attempt to commit a felony listed in sub-subparagraphs (a)1.a.-q., regardless of whether the use of a weapon is an element of the felony, and during the course of the commission of the felony such person discharged a “firearm” or “destructive device” as defined in s. 790.001 shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of 20 years.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/FileStores/Web/Statutes/FS09/CH0775/Section_0775.087.HTM

Thanks for the quote!

I would think that if the state had evidence of premeditated murder or aggravated stalking they would have charged GZ with those crimes. If this case goes to a plea deal the state would want to start with the highest charges that they could. I believe that's why they charged GZ with murder 2 and not manslaughter like a lot of people expected. JMO.

Knowing AC's reputation and that of her prosecutors, they are not playing games. They charged what they believe the evidence proves and will fight the SYG immunity.

Even so, manslaughter is a felony also and since he discharged a weapon, he could get a minimum of 20 years. That's not light time or weak at all.

BBM
I also hope to see some REAL evidence to help us understand what happened. If the state has to resort to using statements made by peripheral people on TV to support their case then their in big trouble. JMO.

Agree with the 1st sentence totally!

For the 2nd, I highly doubt most of those on TV will be witnesses unless they have actual evidence to testify to. Most of those that I have seen discussed here are from GZ's side at that. We'll see if MOM or the prosecutor thinks they have anything worthwhile to testify to. I personally would pay a dollar to see FT testify, lol.

 

[highflyer]

Thanks for the quote!



Knowing AC's reputation and that of her prosecutors, they are not playing games. They charged what they believe the evidence proves and will fight the SYG immunity.

Even so, manslaughter is a felony also and since he discharged a weapon, he could get a minimum of 20 years. That's not light time or weak at all.



Agree with the 1st sentence totally!

For the 2nd, I highly doubt most of those on TV will be witnesses unless they have actual evidence to testify to. Most of those that I have seen discussed here are from GZ's side at that. We'll see if MOM or the prosecutor thinks they have anything worthwhile to testify to. I personally would pay a dollar to see FT testify, lol.

Oh, to be an attorney and get to cross examine FT. ddsmiley: I'd pay about three fitty for that treat.

 

[Sherbie]

OT - Adam Mayes was found dead and the two remaining girls he kidnapped were found UNHARMED. Thank heavens!

ETA: Just read on another news site that he shot himself when SWAT moved in, but is not dead. Who cares - just glad the girls are safe! More on the WS thread for that case: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171728&page=22

 

[Reader]

OT - Adam Mayes was found dead and the two remaining girls he kidnapped were found UNHARMED. Thank heavens!

That's great to hear, thanks!

 

[vlpate]

BBM
It is. It should be 1st degree murder.

If you are saying you don't know who violated who's rights why is it a given that GZ is in the right and TM in the wrong?? I would think people would side with the Minor who was unarmed walking home from the store with ice tea and skiddles. Why would anyone side with a bully who is armed patroling for those "***holes who always get away"?

One would think that if one believed everyone was still stuck on March 8, 2012, when all of the above was being touted as gospel by a group of individuals with an agenda.

After 3 media firings for editing GZ's 911 tape to make him seem racist, after a fuzzy video showing no injuries where there were some, after seeing that the victim was not 14 but actually a 6'2" 17 year old young man who was on a 10 day suspension for having a pipe and a pot baggie (3rd), and the perp wasn't white or horrid looking, but actually multi-racial, (did have a 2 misdemeanor records from 7 years prior), after Mary Cutcher sold her story to the National Enquirer and took photos with Crump & Trayvon's family, after looking at all the evidence and witness statements, after being asked to swallow Crump's story about a 3 wk late witness, after seeing the probable cause document that doesn't match the charges, etc., etc. Teenagers younger than TM jack people up all the time in the City where I live, his age, 17, never made him automatically innocent in my eyes.

I'm just as puzzled as you are, but hopefully that will all change soon :fence: ....... document dump lease:
.JMO!

 

[Phoenixfla]

One would think that if one believed everyone was still stuck on March 8, 2012, when all of the above was being touted as gospel by a group of individuals with an agenda.

After 3 media firings for editing GZ's 911 tape to make him seem racist, after a fuzzy video showing no injuries where there were some, after seeing that the victim was not 14 but actually a 6'2" 17 year old young man who was on a 10 day suspension for having a pipe and a pot baggie (3rd), and the perp wasn't white or horrid looking, but actually multi-racial, (did have a 2 misdemeanor records from 7 years prior), after Mary Cutcher sold her story to the National Enquirer and took photos with Crump & Trayvon's family, after looking at all the evidence and witness statements, after being asked to swallow Crump's story about a 3 wk late witness, after seeing the probable cause document that doesn't match the charges, etc., etc. Teenagers younger than TM jack people up all the time in the City where I live, his age, 17, never made him automatically innocent in my eyes.

I'm just as puzzled as you are, but hopefully that will all change soon :fence: ....... document dump lease:
.JMO!

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

 

[beach]

Removing Off Topic posts.

Please do your part to post ON TOPIC.

 

[suspicious1]

BBM
It is. It should be 1st degree murder.

If you are saying you don't know who violated who's rights why is it a given that GZ is in the right and TM in the wrong?? I would think people would side with the Minor who was unarmed walking home from the store with ice tea and skiddles. Why would anyone side with a bully who is armed patroling for those "***holes who always get away"?

I totally agree with you.

I can think of several reasons why others would give GZ the benefit of the doubt..It's really a no brainer, IMO.

GZ is a loser who took the life of a young man......and he will be dealt with one way or another. JMO

 

[AngelWings444]

I still think the State has a whole lot more than they are telling us. I firmly believe AC did not overcharge this case, and the State can prove it was murder.

IMO - GZ's own statements will sink his ship. :jail: