What evidence does the prosecution have?

[AJ Noiter]

This doesn't make sense. If someone is following you in a car, people especially women call 911 because it is creepy and potentially dangerous. If someone is following you in a mall or out walking and you KNOW they are following you there is a problem. Kids are taught from an early age to be aware of someone following them. Trying to make it out like this is normal is silly. It is not normal behavior. It's sick and scary and unnerving behavior. Stranger danger.

I think the reason for being followed is important. For example, is it creepy/stalkerish/etc if my brother follows me from my house to a nearby restaurant? I'd think not. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a soldier to follow someone they think is suspicious? I don't think so. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a concerned citizen to do the same as the the soldier? No, not while reporting every move to a 911 dispatcher.

 

[highflyer]

I think the reason for being followed is important. For example, is it creepy/stalkerish/etc if my brother follows me from my house to a nearby restaurant? I'd think not. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a soldier to follow someone they think is suspicious? I don't think so. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a concerned citizen to do the same as the the soldier? No, not while reporting every move to a 911 dispatcher.

Brother? Soldier? That has nothing whatsoever to do with stranger danger.

An armed man who boasted online for the world to see that his friends did a year and didn't rat him out so he didn't get pinched followed an unarmed teen and killed him. The fact that he went down the NW manual list while on the phone with the police makes it all the more disturbing.

 

[grammieto5]

If someone walking in front of me were to turn around and ask why are you following me?, I'd think they were crazy. YMMV.

But back to the GF's alleged statement, according to her TM initiated first (verbal) contact. I'm not saying I believe her recall of the conversation is flawless, but that's her story (as per Crump). TM made the first actual move of engagement by confronting GZ with the question: Why are you following me?

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

OK, so if Trayvon had not asked GZ why he was following him, Trayvon would be walking with his graduating class this year, he would have gone to his prom, we would not be having this comversation. Right, it's Trayvon's fault GZ murdered him. To me this makes no sense.

 

[gxm]

This doesn't make sense. If someone is following you in a car, people especially women call 911 because it is creepy and potentially dangerous. If someone is following you in a mall or out walking and you KNOW they are following you there is a problem. Kids are taught from an early age to be aware of someone following them. Trying to make it out like this is normal is silly. It is not normal behavior. It's sick and scary and unnerving behavior. Stranger danger.

I don't know why we aren't understanding each other but if I were walking behind someone, like on a city sidewalk, and they turned around and accused me of following them, I'd think they were crazy because I don't go around following people.

As someone who has been followed, I have never confronted the person following me. IMO, it's just not safe. Even when I was a child and was followed home by a strange man I had the instinct to run, not stop and ask the guy why he was following me. Another time (before cell phones), I was driving home at night and the car behind me "tapped" me at a stoplight. (We were the only two cars around.) I looked in my rearview mirror and there were two men in the front seat. Did I get out of my car to ask what they were up to? Nope. I moved forward a little bit. They tapped me again. This time I sat up off my seat, turned around so they could see me and slowly shook my head no. As in "No. I'm not falling for it and if you get out of your car, I'm running the light."

Everyone's reaction to danger is different. My reaction is to go into rabbit mode and run. It is not to confront the person who is setting off my hinky alarm. Again, YMMV.

FTR, I am not "blaming" TM for confronting GZ. I am simply pointing out that by his gf's account (if Crump is being accurate), TM made the first (verbal) contact. Not GZ.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[gxm]

OK, so if Trayvon had not asked GZ why he was following him, Trayvon would be walking with his graduating class this year, he would have gone to his prom, we would not be having this comversation. Right, it's Trayvon's fault GZ murdered him. To me this makes no sense.

Nope. I'm not saying it's TM's "fault." I'm just pointing out that both sides of the story (GZ's alleged account and the gf's alleged account) have TM making first (either physical or verbal) contact. That is one thing that they are consistent in.

IMO, the fault lies in the law. If GZ hadn't been carrying a gun, everything could have played out exactly the same way except that TM wouldn't be dead.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[highflyer]

I don't know why we aren't understanding each other but if I were walking behind someone, like on a city sidewalk, and they turned around and accused me of following them, I'd think they were crazy because I don't go around following people.

As someone who has been followed, I have never confronted the person following me. IMO, it's just not safe. Even when I was a child and was followed home by a strange man I had the instinct to run, not stop and ask the guy why he was following me. Another time (before cell phones), I was driving home at night and the car behind me "tapped" me at a stoplight. (We were the only two cars around.) I looked in my rearview mirror and there were two men in the front seat. Did I get out of my car to ask what they were up to? Nope. I moved forward a little bit. They tapped me again. This time I sat up off my seat, turned around so they could see me and slowly shook my head no. As in "No. I'm not falling for it and if you get out of your car, I'm running the light."

Everyone's reaction to danger is different. My reaction is to go into rabbit mode and run. It is not to confront the person who is setting off my hinky alarm. Again, YMMV.

FTR, I am not "blaming" TM for confronting GZ. I am simply pointing out that by his gf's account (if Crump is being accurate), TM made the first (verbal) contact. Not GZ.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Don't think that TM asking why are you following me, if he indeed did do that, is strange because I've done that, but it always depends on the situation. I've ducked into a business and also turned and laid a stare on someone so hard they felt it into next week and another time called mall security and had a policeman walk me to my car. It isn't a bad idea to let someone know you are aware of them.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Brother? Soldier? That has nothing whatsoever to do with stranger danger.

An armed man who boasted online for the world to see that his friends did a year and didn't rat him out so he didn't get pinched followed an unarmed teen and killed him. The fact that he went down the NW manual list while on the phone with the police makes it all the more disturbing.

In the quoted text, I believe you skipped over two very important words. For example. Also, the soldier would very well be following a stranger. I know in my days of service I wouldn't follow "Major Dummy" thinking he was doing something suspicious, I would've called out "Hey, Dummy.. what are you doing over there?" if I thought his actions were suspicious.

 

[LambChop]

I think the reason for being followed is important. For example, is it creepy/stalkerish/etc if my brother follows me from my house to a nearby restaurant? I'd think not. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a soldier to follow someone they think is suspicious? I don't think so. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a concerned citizen to do the same as the the soldier? No, not while reporting every move to a 911 dispatcher.

Retreat View was not a third world country where a soldier is on duty. Anyone, soldier or otherwise had no right to follow TM that night. There was no reason. GZ called the police and reported it. His job was done. He knew his job was done. Why would a police department bother to set a program like this up if it was not for the safety of all concerned. That is why there is that rule....do not follow.....for everyone's safety. Let LE do their job.

I don't think even a soldier has any more right to follow a civilian on a public street than anyone else. Another soldier, yes, but civilian, no. Obviously this is a big problem if men think it's okay to follow women or young men down a dark alley or sidewalk. I still do not get it. Deliberately making someone fearful seems okay because it's a right? There is definitely something wrong and we can see the results. TM is dead because he feared the worst would happen and it did. jmo

 

[LynnM]

I think the reason for being followed is important. For example, is it creepy/stalkerish/etc if my brother follows me from my house to a nearby restaurant? I'd think not. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a soldier to follow someone they think is suspicious? I don't think so. Is it creepy/stalkerish for a concerned citizen to do the same as the the soldier? No, not while reporting every move to a 911 dispatcher.

GZ may not have come across to as a creepy stalker to the dispatcher but if I were Trayvon he would have seemed like one to me. Trayvon isn't a mind reader. GZ could have been a pedophile like John Wayne Gacy wanting to abduct him. He could have been someone who didn't want black kids in the neighborhood and who wanted to beat him up. How would Trayvon know?

It didn't occur to me that the man who followed me first in his car and then on foot when I was seventeen and walking back from the store could have had any legitimate purpose and I still, 40 years later, think I had a close call.

 

[vlpate]

<snipped>
An armed man who boasted online for the world to see that his friends did a year and didn't rat him out so he didn't get pinched followed an unarmed teen and killed him.

If you were to read that "about me" paragraph on GZ's MS page again, you might see that the bold, above, is not quite accurate, IMO. This was something he was boasting, at 21 years old, could happen, not something that did happen. I mean think about it, would one actually brag about not being ratted out while, at the same time, ratting themselves out.

Did TM take a swing at a bus driver, as his tweets suggest? Did TM own a glock, and was he planning on shooting someone with it? It's right there on his Twitter page.

(From a cousin): Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver
PLZZ EXERCISE YO RIGHT 2 REMAIN SILENT.. DAM
2 glock 40's... b**** you got 80 problems
Finna (I'm fixing to) smoke 1 wit my dawg wayne

This is exactly what MO'M was talking about when he said social media could be fair game for both sides. Reading the above, TM could be seen as someone who could be violent, armed, and possibly on drugs - possibly suspicious.

In my opinion, the bold is not evidence for the prosecution.

The fact that he went down the NW manual list while on the phone with the police makes it all the more disturbing.

He was doing what was expected of a NW volunteer when calling in a suspicious person - I don't see a problem with it. JMO

 

[sleonardelli]

He wasn't running, unless you consider running in circles over and over. If he was 380 feet from his doorstep and was running at the point when GZ said to the dispatcher 'he's running', he would of been long gone by the time GZ got off the phone. Or in his house.

According to the timeline in the [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170564"]Timeline[/ame] thread:

19:11:41 (02:06:65) **** he's running.

19:12:00 (19:11:30-19:12:30) Trayvon receives call from girlfriend

Trayvon likely STOPPED to talk to his GF because he thought he "lost" GZ.

 

[Phoenixfla]

This doesn't make sense. If someone is following you in a car, people especially women call 911 because it is creepy and potentially dangerous. If someone is following you in a mall or out walking and you KNOW they are following you there is a problem. Kids are taught from an early age to be aware of someone following them. Trying to make it out like this is normal is silly. It is not normal behavior. It's sick and scary and unnerving behavior. Stranger danger.

EXACTLY. Why didn't that happen??? If TM had called 911 instead of taking matters in his own hands and confronting GZ, things may have turned out a lot different.

 

[sleonardelli]

EXACTLY. Why didn't that happen??? If TM had called 911 instead of taking matters in his own hands and confronting GZ, things may have turned out a lot different.

We still don't know that Trayvon confronted GZ; GZ could've just as easily approached Trayvon. We also can't say for certain HOW the injuries occured other than the two were in a struggle.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Retreat View was not a third world country where a soldier is on duty. Anyone, soldier or otherwise had no right to follow TM that night. There was no reason. GZ called the police and reported it. His job was done. He knew his job was done. Why would a police department bother to set a program like this up if it was not for the safety of all concerned. That is why there is that rule....do not follow.....for everyone's safety. Let LE do their job.

Got a statute available for that?

I don't think even a soldier has any more right to follow a civilian on a public street than anyone else. Another soldier, yes, but civilian, no. Obviously this is a big problem if men think it's okay to follow women or young men down a dark alley or sidewalk. I still do not get it. Deliberately making someone fearful seems okay because it's a right? There is definitely something wrong and we can see the results. TM is dead because he feared the worst would happen and it did. jmo

Your first sentence is 100% correct. They have every right to follow someone, just like everyone else.. unless of course you have a statute as mentioned above.

 

[highflyer]

EXACTLY. Why didn't that happen??? If TM had called 911 instead of taking matters in his own hands and confronting GZ, things may have turned out a lot different.

Blaming the victim.

 

[Phoenixfla]

We still don't know that Trayvon confronted GZ; GZ could've just as easily approached Trayvon. We also can't say for certain HOW the injuries occured other than the two were in a struggle.

Sure we do, the GF claims that TM said "Why are you following me?" Before that there was no confrontation, just a lot of watching (or following depending on your take)

 

[Phoenixfla]

Blaming the victim.

Or the assailant depending on what the evidence shows.

 

[tehcloser]

Tough friends that would beat up his sister?

 

[highflyer]

Got a statute available for that?



Your first sentence is 100% correct. They have every right to follow someone, just like everyone else.. unless of course you have a statute as mentioned above.

You can state statutes all you want but it comes down to people and their feelings. They will go into a jury room with their head full of lawyer speak and it will be common sense that comes out. Common sense is that children are taught from two, three, four years old to watch out for strangers, to watch out for people following you. Common sense says that George Zimmerman was up to no good.

 

[AJ Noiter]

You can state statutes all you want but it comes down to people and their feelings. They will go into a jury room with their head full of lawyer speak and it will be common sense that comes out. Common sense is that children are taught from two, three, four years old to watch out for strangers, to watch out for people following you. Common sense says that George Zimmerman was up to no good.

Ok, so no laws saying it's illegal to follow someone. I'll let you get by with an example case.. got a case where someone was sent to jail for simply following someone?