What I saw/heard Thursday Frye Hearing

[LaLaw2000]

I have started a post so many times and just stopped. It's very hard for me to put into words what I am feeling at this point without being too harsh. The Anthony family has sailed along since June/July of 2008, and now the trial is looming large.

These were just hearings. The trial will be devastating for them all. (the Anthony's) The family might have been in a better place in their emotions had they attempted to face the truth earlier on. The truth that they have been evading will be driven home to them now.

Cindy crying? It was for all of the reasons stated by everyone and probably some reasons we haven't even thought of yet.

For me this is a really bad train wreck with many casualties (with Caylee being the main one) that I simply cannot look away from. I am here for Caylee and will remain here for her until this trial is over. Then I hope I never hear of any of them again except for Caylee. I will never forget her.

MOO

 

[2goldfish]

As someone who suffers from PTSD what usually presents is the detachment that the inmate shows. Speaking from only my experience I would never want to be the life of the party as the inmate is shown in pictures. Never to dress provocative for male attention, even if you are pretty on the outside. On the inside you feel that you look hideous and that nobody would ever want you and I too was 22 years old when this started. I think they are grasping for straws and as said by previous posters the A's better hope their Teflon coating continues cause someone is going down for the inmate murdering her daughter. All the while lies and no concern for Caylee.:twocents:

I'm sorry for whatever you've been through :grouphug:

as far as ICA and PTSD - after murdering her little girl and carting her decomposing body for days before finally dumping it like trash....well PTSD isnt out of the question I suppose.

 

[Tiki]

As someone who suffers from PTSD what usually presents is the detachment that the inmate shows. Speaking from only my experience I would never want to be the life of the party as the inmate is shown in pictures. Never to dress provocative for male attention, even if you are pretty on the outside. On the inside you feel that you look hideous and that nobody would ever want you and I too was 22 years old when this started. I think they are grasping for straws and as said by previous posters the A's better hope their Teflon coating continues cause someone is going down for the inmate murdering her daughter. All the while lies and no concern for Caylee.:twocents:

BBM

I've been receiving therapy for PTSD for about 5 years - some of it has been group therapy. Not one of the patients in the groups with me have been the partying type. They are sullen or angry or silent or suicidal. I agree that the detachment ICA shows now could be a result of PTSD, but her behavior immediately following Cayee's murder, and up until recently when she stopped giggling in court as much, sure isn't like the disorder I have. It can be a delayed reaction, but not 2.5 years - at least it's not what I've learned - maybe 6 months or so . . .

I think the SA could find a lot of experts to refute a "diagnosis" of PTSD for ICA.

MOO

PTSD symptoms from a government medical website:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001923/

Symptoms of PTSD fall into three main categories:

1. Repeated "reliving" of the event, which disturbs day-to-day activity

Flashback episodes, where the event seems to be happening again and again
Recurrent distressing memories of the event
Repeated dreams of the event
Physical reactions to situations that remind you of the traumatic event

2. Avoidance

Emotional "numbing," or feeling as though you don’t care about anything
Feelings of detachment
Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
Lack of interest in normal activities
Less expression of moods
Staying away from places, people, or objects that remind you of the event
Sense of having no future

3. Arousal

Difficulty concentrating
Exaggerated response to things that startle you
Excess awareness (hypervigilance)
Irritability or outbursts of anger
Sleeping difficulties

You also might feel a sense of guilt about the event (including "survivor guilt"), and the following symptoms, which are typical of anxiety, stress, and tension:

Agitation, or excitability
Dizziness
Fainting
Feeling your heart beat in your chest (palpitations)
Fever
Headache
Paleness

 

[faefrost]

ITA with your whole post. I've been pretty vocal about wanting the judge to kick them out of the courtroom because of their behavior. I'm also including George because he is just as bad as CA when he is there.

BBM-You said it much better than I did. That's exactly what she is trying to do. Courtrooms aren't that big and Cindy's action will distract the jury at minimum and perhaps be persuaded by them. If she has something to say, she must say it on the stand, under oath so the SA's have a chance to cross examine her. It's a sneaky way of testifying without getting on the stand.

I hate to type this but it seems JBP is more bark than bite in other areas too. It is his job to take control of the courtroom and enforce all rules. :truce:

JBP needs to add another rule and that is when he makes a ruling, no talking back.

IMO

Something real important to keep in mind as we watch these preliminary hearings and preliminary courtroom antics. It is different when there is a jury present. Right now HHJP is the only audience that counts. He really does not care about "impartial" presentations, because he is the one watching. he is observing it all, and using it to frame his opinions. In other words since he is really the only one important watching in the preliminary hearings, he is giving all of them a lot more leeway to see what they do.

Cindy's antic's? Well guess what, as soon as JB wandered off well away from anything having anything to do with Frye issues, HHJP was watching the courtroom closely. He was observing every face that everyone made. In 6 weeks he will have to rule once again on sequestration of witnesses. We is watching how those self same witnesses are behaving today. he is taking all of their measure in semi private, in front of him. This will not be the same at trial where he has to protect the integrity of what happens in front of the jury. Anyone want to place money on how he rules about the A's in the courtroom then? From what I have seen so far it would appear that HHJP manages his court with something of a velvet glove, and not a hammer. It will feel soft and light until he starts to squeeze. Given his appellate record I can find no issues with his approach.

 

[gitana1]

Judge is the proper way to address a judge.

Not where I'm from, mate. It's considered very disrespectful on the west coast to address the court in that manner. I use "your honor" "the court" etc., but never "judge". In fact, I saw one attorney get admonished for doing so. It's rude and way too informal, IMO.

 

[amysmom]

It's always entertaining to see the many facial expressions of JP..He's the ONLY one I can say that about tho.

Whoever has that avatar of him I've been meaning to say "I LOVE it".

 

[gitana1]

if she only knew!
i always assumed a mistrial = you get to go home.
my cousin got off because of a mistrial (hung jury)
but now i just read last month of a case locally where a guy beat a little girl to death.. it ended with a mistrial because of juror misconduct.. one of the jurors googled "detached retina"
so anyway, it was a mistrial.. but the guy stayed in prison and had a bench trial a week or 2 later..
i believe he got 30 years? i'll have to look it up


ETA:
here we go http://www.timesleader.com/news/Historic_day_in_Pa__legal_system_ends__with_mistrial_01-14-2011.html



looks like he was found not guilty on the serious charges.. but they re-tried on lesser charges and i know he was convicted.. just gotta find the report!

In some cases where the issue is not worth retrying (not murder, for example), the state weighs the value of retrying the case. Trials cost a lot so if the crime is not too serious, a mistrial often means the defendant goes free and will not be retried.

On the street.

It is also appropriate to address the judge as "sir" or "madam," or simply as "judge" while court is not in session. If you see the judge outside of the courtroom, and you feel "your honor" is too formal, then by all means use one of these alternatives. However, when you are inside the courtroom and the judge is presiding over your case, it is always appropriate to use "your honor" and you should refrain from using one of the alternatives, if for nothing else, but to show the judge you respect their position of power and to win their respect in return.

This makes sense. I have seen judges in the hall or at a seminar or dinner and then I address them as "judge": "Hi Judge Chemelenski! How are you?" But, IMO, that is very improper to do in open court. I would never do that. I see the mistake sometimes in certain attorneys but I can see how it annoys the court.

 

[strach304]

I'm sorry for whatever you've been through :grouphug:

as far as ICA and PTSD - after murdering her little girl and carting her decomposing body for days before finally dumping it like trash....well PTSD isnt out of the question I suppose.

But...but she did not act any different in that time span opposed to her unusual usual behavior. What several of the Anthony's did say is that Casey had started these behaviors (crimes in some cases) after Caylee was born. I personally doubt that version as well. The check she stole from Lee was before Caylee was born I believe, not sure. How about she didn't start getting caught not that she wasn't always this way imo.

 

[strach304]

Baez also stated, acquittal...maybe ICA thinks she will be aquitted on the murder of her precious child...Who she didn't respect enough to just hand her over if she didn't want to parent...her jealousy, anger and rage for her domineering, controlling mother who thought she was the mother to Caylee..

ICA lives in fantasy land on her own fantasy island...I believe she will be found guilty and receive LWOP..for she came up with a devious, depraved plan to be a free young woman and not one who had any parental incubrances...Caylee will get justice...She's in fine hands of JA/LDB/FG...they will win this one for Caylee Marie...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

I don't think so because it was around the time she was first bailed out by LP. Casey seemed to be under the impression that the evidence didn't support a trial in the first place. They were trying to scare her into a confession. The various talking heads have always said in a case like this a mistrial is good for the prosecution because they can see what areas are weak and that's their focus second time around. Phil Spector is a good example I guess. Casey or JB can't possibly think that the state won't retry the case. Even JP said he doesn't want to but will.

 

[Leila]

If my memory is correct, Casey talked about Jose saying she will get a mistrial in the letters to her Cookie (Robyn Adams).

What I find funny is that Casey is simply content with a mistrial... I would not be happy with a mistrial if I were innocent of a crime... I would want to be aquitted. But not our Casey, she's "unique." I wonder if Casey even realizes that just because she gets a mistrial that it does not mean that she gets to go home? She is so transparent though! Could care less about an aquittal, but is happy as can be with a mistrial? Funny girl! :floorlaugh:

I think you're right, it was in the letters to Robyn that she said Jose told her she'll get a mistrial.

Casey goes with what will get her to her goal.......off the hook and freedom. In the past, whenever she was in trouble, it was lies to her parents and others and that always worked - she never had to take responsibility for her wrong doing and suffer any punishment. She's guilty of a crime and she knows it, but she'll accept anything she thinks will get her off the hook. I don't think she realizes that with a mistrial, she will be re-tried.

 

[Malini2001]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times, but I can't seem to find any opinions on the subject.

Why is ICA always pulling on her sleeves? She did this everytime the camera was on her.........pulling, pulling,pulling. She covers her palms for some reason.

Why do you suppose she keeps doing this?

I think it's an unconscious nervous habit. I know other people who pull their sleeves down over their palms. She could also have cold hands. I think someone has mentioned that it is cold in the courtroom.

I know I tend to rub my hands and I'm not aware I'm doing it until someone asks if my hands hurt. Lots of people have unconscious habits that people become more aware of on camera.

 

[Leila]

During a recess when he was headed out of the room, she grabbed his arm and demanded it.

Like daughter, like mother - when Casey told Jose to "make him stop" when JA was describing what Caylee's last moments may have been like.

 

[Leila]

I wish he would do it now. The As openly chomp gum, throw their hands in the air, make faces, and shake their heads when witnesses are testifying. The rules were given out months ago. Now it seems more people are blatantly disregarding the rules too.

At this point I'd like to see every person in that courtroom act like CA/GA so JBP will be forced to enforce the rules. If he puts his foot down in front of a jury they may feel sorry for the As.

I really like JA and I believe Caylee is the one with the dream team but I think JA needs to get his emotions in check. I understand his frustration but he needs to rise above it like LDB. He has the facts, knowledge, and truth on his side and when he spoke about Caylee's suffering and her last moments alive, he spoke from the heart. JB is a thousand times worse than JA but I don't want any juror to remotely feel this is a 'win at all cost' competition between JB/CM, and JA. :truce:

Good point about HHMP laying out the courtroom rules now rather than have to do it in front of the jury. Perhaps now, and then repeated on the opening day of the trial before the jury is brought in.

 

[MissJames]

]But...but she did not act any different in that time span opposed to her unusual usual behavior[/B]. What several of the Anthony's did say is that Casey had started these behaviors (crimes in some cases) after Caylee was born. I personally doubt that version as well. The check she stole from Lee was before Caylee was born I believe, not sure. How about she didn't start getting caught not that she wasn't always this way imo.

BBM and red

State's rebuttal in a nutshell! You nailed it!

 

[LambChop]

http://thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1096&p=45201#p45201

Caylee Anthony case: Magpie reports on 03/23/11 hearing

excerpt:
"I know that Cindy and Casey have been instructed to not have any emotional expressions, etc., but when Baez was asking Sgt. Brewer during cross if Bones alerted in the yard and if they found anything “NO, leg, no bone, no teeth……” most of us reacted, but they didn’t. That would also be hard for a jury to overlook. He just asked if they found your child’s body part? But then thats just me."

Strange.....we didn't hear any "Make him stop" from the defense table.

 

[websurfer]

The camera issue and the laptops screens?
Heck, we can barely read our own laptop/computer screens right in front of us how could a viewer possibly make out what is on those screens anyway?
So the poor cameraperson had to change his angle..
just because they like to keep up with those blogs?
I had heard earlier that they may want to sue everybody for posts/Is this possible?

 

[LambChop]

The camera issue and the laptops screens?
Heck, we can barely read our own laptop/computer screens right in front of us how could a viewer possibly make out what is on those screens anyway?
So the poor cameraperson had to change his angle..
just because they like to keep up with those blogs?
I had heard earlier that they may want to sue everybody for posts/Is this possible?

I think it is just our opinions here. I don't think anyone here has accused them of anything. Otherwise everyone on the jury would get sued. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

The camera issue and the laptops screens?
Heck, we can barely read our own laptop/computer screens right in front of us how could a viewer possibly make out what is on those screens anyway?
So the poor cameraperson had to change his angle..
just because they like to keep up with those blogs?
I had heard earlier that they may want to sue everybody for posts/Is this possible?

Who wants to sue people for their posts and I do not think that it is possible. There has been nothing said that hasn't been reported by the media. Our Freedom of Speech rights reign supreme to their temper tantrums.

 

[my2sense]

But...but she did not act any different in that time span opposed to her unusual usual behavior. What several of the Anthony's did say is that Casey had started these behaviors (crimes in some cases) after Caylee was born. I personally doubt that version as well. The check she stole from Lee was before Caylee was born I believe, not sure. How about she didn't start getting caught not that she wasn't always this way imo.

And according to Lee, in that taped conversation in Tony L's car, Casey has been lying for years prior to Caylee's birth.

 

[LambChop]

Something real important to keep in mind as we watch these preliminary hearings and preliminary courtroom antics. It is different when there is a jury present. Right now HHJP is the only audience that counts. He really does not care about "impartial" presentations, because he is the one watching. he is observing it all, and using it to frame his opinions. In other words since he is really the only one important watching in the preliminary hearings, he is giving all of them a lot more leeway to see what they do.

Cindy's antic's? Well guess what, as soon as JB wandered off well away from anything having anything to do with Frye issues, HHJP was watching the courtroom closely. He was observing every face that everyone made. In 6 weeks he will have to rule once again on sequestration of witnesses. We is watching how those self same witnesses are behaving today. he is taking all of their measure in semi private, in front of him. This will not be the same at trial where he has to protect the integrity of what happens in front of the jury. Anyone want to place money on how he rules about the A's in the courtroom then? From what I have seen so far it would appear that HHJP manages his court with something of a velvet glove, and not a hammer. It will feel soft and light until he starts to squeeze. Given his appellate record I can find no issues with his approach.

I soooooo agree with your post. There is no way CA will keep from being disruptive. According to Magpie on HinkyMeter CA was quite animated during these last hearings, drawing pictures of her backyard when the dog handler was testifying, making faces, making comments to her friend, trying to get JB's attention, etc. She is quite unstable if she cannot control herself in the courtroom when she knows the rules and there is just too much of a chance she will do something to disrupt the trial.

I'm hoping the judge will decide to make them sit in a separate room with a monitor so they can view the proceedings without interuption and complain to their heart's content. Their testimony, I would hope would be short and sweet. Get them in, get them out.

Plus do you think if the judge is aware of what happened to Patricia Young he may take that into consideration also. GA just does not deal well with stress. jmo

jmo