What if George really was involved?

[Etilema]

I don't personally believe that george took his granddaughters body stuffed her in some garbage bags and threw her down the street, to me that just doesn't ring true. I have zero respect and even less sympathy for both george and cindy and certainly could be convinced that they would have covered up her death by any means possible but I believe that if they did actually participate in disposig of her body it wouldn't have been done so sloppily. They are perfectionists, the lawn is just so the house is immaculate, I just don't see how with what we know, that Caylee was just thrown away down the street in garbage bags and that george and cindy were the orchestrators of that disposal. No they would have done it differently, it would have been more neat.

Excellent point about their neatness. You are right that George is very neat and methodical about things, whereas Casey was not as much. I seem to recall Cindy commenting on the fact that Casey habitually left things in her car, suggesting that the car was messy, but photos of the car with the items left there seemed much neater than many I've seen.

(I do not think Cindy was involved at all, btw, for a variety of reasons, including all the various calls and texts asking to see Caylee while she was "missing".)

On the other hand, perhaps someone would consider taping up and triple-bagging to be kind of neat and orderly?

 

[Dragonlady]

I do not believe for a second that GA had anything to do with Caylee's death or disposal, it defies logic and the evidence presented, the suicide note and the jailhouse visits and calls proved that they did not know.

I will admit that GA's biggest mistake here was not calling LE when he smelled the trunk of the car, he knew what the smell was but I think that as a father and former LE he panicked knowing what the ramifications of calling LE would be, I believe he wanted to talk to Casey first and he just could not accept what his nose was telling him, total denial and fear on his part.

 

[Granna6]

I so completely agree with what you say here, about how GA has been beaten down, was afraid to be honest, the realist being called negative--the whole thing. unfortunately, his fear and lying only muddied the waters.

I wish he had grown a spine at any point before the trial ended.

Glad you brought that up, Etilema. I think GA manned up toward the end of all this. Up until the end of the trial, he was pretty much dragged along by everyone else. If he neither molested Casey nor stood with the dripping, dead Caylee in his arms, then he has sufferered more than anyone (except Caylee) by having his reputation totally shredded. (I lean towards his having had an affair with Looney Tunes River, which is the only besmirchment I see.)

I think that by the end of the trial, he felt "free" and finally able to shake off the shackles that Casey and Cindy had around him for years. He was finally able to stand up to the slimy JB. He is an imperfect man, but not much unlike thousands of other men who DO love their families, cherish their grandchildren, and want to be loyal to their wives; however, they have vulnerabilities and trip up on things like gambling debts and wandering.

I think Cindy "wore the pants" and was the primary breadwinner, thus acquiring a lot of leverage to hold over GA. He felt demeaned and may have sought gambling as a quick way out of money issues. It was wrong, but he may have fallen into River's arms because in his mind, Cindy was rejecting him. Perhaps he was a foreigner in his own home. Perhaps no one wanted him there, except as a babysitter. His opinion certainly wasn't welcome, IMO.

HIs comment, "There's something within me that has to get through this," spoke volumes. He had found his courage and freedom by the end of the trial, when he literally had nothing left.

 

[Etilema]

Gonna chime in here.

The only involvement I believe George had was AFTER this crime was committed and his agreement with Jose Baez's master plan to free KC.

I believe that while planning her defense, way back when the pretrials were going on- this clan all got together, including Lee- and devised a plan to confuse, muddy and dirty this thing so bad that there would be no way any one who was not a critical thinker *and let's face it, most of society does not follow crime, techniques, evidence, etc* would be able to follow the confusion. They live their normals lives until thrust into jury duty.

George sat up on the stand in pre-trials and declared he'd do ANYTHING to save his daughter. ANYTHING- tears and all and he meant it. It was at that time he made the decision to be the fall guy. They were all part of it. George would pretend to switch sides with to the SA after 'sparring' with them in all pretrials....... CA would razzle and dazzle with conflicting statements, non-answers, fabricated searches and beyond- Lee, well, Lee would just be a non-player. Supportive but on the sidelines. He really didn't have much involvement before this crime nor after. His dutiful girlfriend's role was to get up there and say 'what an AMAZING mother KC was- then fall apart- take a bow. KC's entire job was to show disgust and disdain for her father and mother- but mostly her father. Her anger was over the top in comparison to any communication she had with him during the visits. Terms of endearment, love and support turn to RAGE........for some unknowing reason. EXCEPT for the fact that JB had the genius idea that if he made daddy the bad guy, just ONE, if not all as in this case, would buy into it thereby creating reasonable doubt that this 'wittle girl' could pull this off.

KC, GA, CA, LE, Mallory, JB, MC, and DS were all in this. The job of the DT is to poke holes- they did that and the SA's evidence (according to the jury) did not withstand the blow. Doesn't mean she's innocent, means the SA didn't plug up all possible leaks until it was too late.

GA took a hit for the team...........he said he would and he did. Most didn't follow the pre-trials.........They don't know that was the plan. The promise was that IF this worked, everyone would be set........CA, GA, LEE, KC and the like could get out of Orlando, relocate to a less saturated place and start anew. Money in their pockets, new everything and people would soon forget about GA the accused child molester. It was all part of the plan and GA was willing to be 'accused' of raping his daughter as long as they could guarantee no prosecution. No evidence, no proof. KC set free- all go on their merry way.

My take on it only. They know she did this but know that they played a role in their screwed up daughter so were willing to 'do whatever it takes'.

No other explanation for WHY CA would stand by GA..........Hand in hand- supporting each other. She would have turned on him in a minute yet that didn't, nor will it happen.

The promise was freedom and $. They lost Caylee but were willing to recognize all their own roles in it.

Am I wrong?

Sounds believable to me. Especially the part about *why* CA has stuck by GA.

 

[SMK]

One scenario that I thought of requires a lot of "what if" qualifiers:
If George really were molesting Casey, many child molesters are not interested in adult women. Maybe George moved on to molest Caylee.
If George had been molesting Caylee and she died during an act of molestation or died as a result of an unrelated accident, George would, as a former police officer, know that her body would show evidence of the molestation.
If that is true, George would know how to deal with the body of Caylee so that it would decompose rapidly and evidence could not be found.
If George wanted to keep Casey from coming forward too soon, George could have known that blaming her for Caylee's death would drive Casey into a psychological state in which she would deny reality.
If George also wanted to implicate Casey, he could have put Caylee's body into Casey's car trunk.

This creates the situation: George HAD molested Casey and she was psychologically screwed up because of it. He molested Caylee, with or without Casey's knowledge. Something happened that resulted in the death of Caylee. George blamed Casey - classic "blame and shame the victim" and forced her to participate in the coverup. George puts Caylee's body in the trunk of Casey's car at some point, maybe wrapped it the same way he had wrapped dead pets over the years.

Maybe George intended to relocate the body sooner, but Casey goes into a frenzy of partying and does not return home for days when George is there. She did go back to the house on the two days after the death of Caylee, but that is too soon for the body to have been removed from the trunk and the death smell to be left in it. Or maybe one of those days is when the body was actually put IN the trunk? Whatever happened, the decomposition of the body is sped up by being left in the trunk in the Florida, but it leaves the odor as evidence.

George and Casey move the body into the woods. George washes his hands of the whole thing. Casey then is left to make excuses to Cindy about where Caylee is. She'd already created Zanny the Nanny and continues to use that story as long as possible. When Cindy is fed up with that story, Casey dredges up the name of an old classmate (can't remember his name right now) and makes up the Daytona Beach/Jacksonville tale.

George does not count on Casey abandoning the car and allowing it to be towed, or Casey could no longer stand driving the car with the stench. Casey or George or both leave the car at the Amscot parking lot, but leave fresh bags of garbage so there is some apparent source for the smell. The car is left by the dumpster so anyone walking by would blame the odor on the dumpster.

When the tow yard notice arrives, he has little choice but to go with Cindy to retrieve the car. With the tow yard operator there who recognized the decomp odor, George cannot deny it, though he probably tried to convince the guy that the garbage bags were to blame. George takes the car home and allows Cindy to clean it up, but cannot keep Cindy from tracking down Casey - Cindy with her experience knew what that smell was and was increasingly agitated. And we know what happened from that point.

This explains why an experienced former police officer would not report the smell of decomposition in the car; why he allowed Cindy to clean the car, removing evidence; why the body was removed; why Casey was so completely off kilter; why the whole family has been covering up everything. It could also factor into why Cindy and George were separated before Caylee's disappearance - Cindy could have been trying to protect her granddaughter from the things that she had not been able to protect her daughter from.

It still does not excuse Casey but it does give an explanation for some of the things that are not consistent with it just being Casey involved. It explains George's defensiveness and why he may not have told the entire truth to LE.

I thought of this plot before the verdict but discounted. Now I am wondering more and more if this may be what happened?

It also explains why when Cindy told George during the 911 call that "Caylee is missing!", as Baez said in the opening remarks, he did not shout, "What?? Oh my God!!" but gave a DEAD SILENCE, as he already knew.

 

[Etilema]

Glad you brought that up, Etilema. I think GA manned up toward the end of all this. Up until the end of the trial, he was pretty much dragged along by everyone else. If he neither molested Casey nor stood with the dripping, dead Caylee in his arms, then he has sufferered more than anyone (except Caylee) by having his reputation totally shredded. (I lean towards his having had an affair with Looney Tunes River, which is the only besmirchment I see.)

I think that by the end of the trial, he felt "free" and finally able to shake off the shackles that Casey and Cindy had around him for years. He was finally able to stand up to the slimy JB. He is an imperfect man, but not much unlike thousands of other men who DO love their families, cherish their grandchildren, and want to be loyal to their wives; however, they have vulnerabilities and trip up on things like gambling debts and wandering.

I think Cindy "wore the pants" and was the primary breadwinner, thus acquiring a lot of leverage to hold over GA. He felt demeaned and may have sought gambling as a quick way out of money issues. It was wrong, but he may have fallen into River's arms because in his mind, Cindy was rejecting him. Perhaps he was a foreigner in his own home. Perhaps no one wanted him there, except as a babysitter. His opinion certainly wasn't welcome, IMO.

HIs comment, "There's something within me that has to get through this," spoke volumes. He had found his courage and freedom by the end of the trial, when he literally had nothing left.

I hope he really has and does not fall back into old patterns. There have been several times when it seemed like he was about to make a bold step, then returned to the nightmare that this whole family miasma is.

I agree with you that, other than Caylee, he has been the biggest victim. Especially after that closing argument of JB's in which he so aggressively pointed the finger at him and said such awful things.

I don't know how GA will ever regain his mental health after not only this crisis of the past 3 years, but the years and years of dysfunction preceding it.

 

[Etilema]

It also explains why when Cindy told George during the 911 call that "Caylee is missing!", as Baez said in the opening remarks, he did not shout, "What?? Oh my God!!" but gave a DEAD SILENCE, as he already knew.

I would expect someone trying to cover up to go out of their way to act shocked. I would expect them to be even more likely to exclaim. I honestly think that whatever George's reaction was at that moment, it wasn't near or loud enough to be caught by the recording. But even if he stood in stunned silence, I would not consider that indicative that he already knew.

 

[Mendara]

I know this is not true because when the jury was sent out and the judge confronted Cheney Mason about the drowning theory and how they have not shown that this is a true claim, Cheney Mason told the judge that is was just that A THEORY and that the defense has not claimed it to be absolute truth and that it was a theory the prosecution had the burden to prove false.

That was Cheney Mason saying they made it up a plausible story and that it was up to the state to convince the jury it was not possible after Jose planted the seed.

All of them including Casey know and knew Caylee never drowned in that pool. Also, when Casey was first charge for murder - Jose paraded around claiming the real killer will be caught that they were goign to find him. If this was an accident from day one then why would there be a killer?

The defense sat down and they came up with their drowning molesting story right before going to trial, knowing FULL WELL it was NOT true.

I bunch of lowly people wanting more to win and elevate themselves than seek the truth and justice for Caylee.

It paid off as evil often does at the very start, but come heaven and hell, they will all pay in some fashion or another. MO

 

[Granna6]

I so completely agree with what you say here, about how GA has been beaten down, was afraid to be honest, the realist being called negative--the whole thing. unfortunately, his fear and lying only muddied the waters.

I wish he had grown a spine at any point before the trial ended.

Glad you brought that up, Etilema. I think GA manned up toward the end of all this. Up until the end of the trial, he was pretty much dragged along by everyone else. If he neither molested Casey nor stood with the dripping, dead Caylee in his arms, then he has sufferered more than anyone (except Caylee) by having his reputation totally shredded. (I lean towards his having had an affair with Looney Tunes River, which is the only besmirchment I see.)

I think that by the end of the trial, he felt "free" and finally able to shake off the shackles that Casey and Cindy had around him for years. He was finally able to stand up to the slimy JB. He is an imperfect man, but not much unlike thousands of other men who DO love their families, cherish their grandchildren, and want to be loyal to their wives; however, they have vulnerabilities and trip up on things like gambling debts and wandering.

I think Cindy "wore the pants" and was the primary breadwinner, thus acquiring a lot of leverage to hold over GA. He felt demeaned and may have sought gambling as a quick way out of money issues. It was wrong, but he may have fallen into River's arms because in his mind, Cindy was rejecting him. Perhaps he was a foreigner in his own home. Perhaps no one wanted him there, except as a babysitter. His opinion certainly wasn't welcome, IMO.

HIs comment, "There's something within me that has to get through this," spoke volumes. He had found his courage and freedom by the end of the trial, when he literally had nothing left.

 

[SMK]

Gonna chime in here.

The only involvement I believe George had was AFTER this crime was committed and his agreement with Jose Baez's master plan to free KC.

I believe that while planning her defense, way back when the pretrials were going on- this clan all got together, including Lee- and devised a plan to confuse, muddy and dirty this thing so bad that there would be no way any one who was not a critical thinker *and let's face it, most of society does not follow crime, techniques, evidence, etc* would be able to follow the confusion. They live their normals lives until thrust into jury duty.

George sat up on the stand in pre-trials and declared he'd do ANYTHING to save his daughter. ANYTHING- tears and all and he meant it. It was at that time he made the decision to be the fall guy. They were all part of it. George would pretend to switch sides with to the SA after 'sparring' with them in all pretrials....... CA would razzle and dazzle with conflicting statements, non-answers, fabricated searches and beyond- Lee, well, Lee would just be a non-player. Supportive but on the sidelines. He really didn't have much involvement before this crime nor after. His dutiful girlfriend's role was to get up there and say 'what an AMAZING mother KC was- then fall apart- take a bow. KC's entire job was to show disgust and disdain for her father and mother- but mostly her father. Her anger was over the top in comparison to any communication she had with him during the visits. Terms of endearment, love and support turn to RAGE........for some unknowing reason. EXCEPT for the fact that JB had the genius idea that if he made daddy the bad guy, just ONE, if not all as in this case, would buy into it thereby creating reasonable doubt that this 'wittle girl' could pull this off.

KC, GA, CA, LE, Mallory, JB, MC, and DS were all in this. The job of the DT is to poke holes- they did that and the SA's evidence (according to the jury) did not withstand the blow. Doesn't mean she's innocent, means the SA didn't plug up all possible leaks until it was too late.

GA took a hit for the team...........he said he would and he did. Most didn't follow the pre-trials.........They don't know that was the plan. The promise was that IF this worked, everyone would be set........CA, GA, LEE, KC and the like could get out of Orlando, relocate to a less saturated place and start anew. Money in their pockets, new everything and people would soon forget about GA the accused child molester. It was all part of the plan and GA was willing to be 'accused' of raping his daughter as long as they could guarantee no prosecution. No evidence, no proof. KC set free- all go on their merry way.

My take on it only. They know she did this but know that they played a role in their screwed up daughter so were willing to 'do whatever it takes'.

No other explanation for WHY CA would stand by GA..........Hand in hand- supporting each other. She would have turned on him in a minute yet that didn't, nor will it happen.

The promise was freedom and $. They lost Caylee but were willing to recognize all their own roles in it.

Am I wrong?

Sure does get one to thinking........ :waitasec:

 

[burbqueen]

Why GA and not Cindy? I dont get it? Cindy lied on the stand just as much as GA. Cindy protected her daughter. LA even said that Cindy was the alpha in that family. So i dunno why GA was harped on. What about LA couldnt he be involved too??

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:cow::cow::cow:

1. GA does NOT come across as believable and at times, he was very "snarky" on the stand !

2. GA did NOT come across as believable when the Krystal Holloway/River Cruz "affair" was brought up ... he came across as a LIAR !

3. GA has LIED and COVERED UP for ICA since Day 31 !

However, I do NOT believe that GA was involved in the murder of Caylee and I do NOT believe that GA was involved in the disposal of Caylee in the woods!

George is a very beligerent person ... but he loved Caylee and there is no way he would have thrown Caylee in the woods !


MOO MOO MOO

 

[Etilema]

Why GA and not Cindy? I dont get it? Cindy lied on the stand just as much as GA. Cindy protected her daughter. LA even said that Cindy was the alpha in that family. So i dunno why GA was harped on. What about LA couldnt he be involved too??

I think CA's behavior during the 31 days and when she called the police make it clear she had no idea what happened to Caylee.

 

[darcedarce]

It also explains why when Cindy told George during the 911 call that "Caylee is missing!", as Baez said in the opening remarks, he did not shout, "What?? Oh my God!!" but gave a DEAD SILENCE, as he already knew.

If he's so sneaky and brilliant enough to pull this off without one shred of evidence against him why would he not know to shout "WHAT?! OMG SAY IT ISN'T SO?!" I'm sure he was trying to absorb what he was hearing.

 

[SATA]

I don´t think that GA knows a thing about what happened to little Caylee. Not more than any of us. Only Casey knows - and she will NEVER tell ANYONE. I can´t believe she got away with this! I don´t know if she killed her daughter with premeditation, it wasn´t proven. But I think it was proven that she had the body of her daughter in the trunk of her car for several days and that she dumped her like GARBAGE. If that alone isn´t aggravated child abuse, I don´t know what is!! I don´t get this jury´s verdict, and I am FAR, FAR from being a vindictive person - I just happen to think that Casey is a very dangerous individual. Time will tell what will become of her - or the people around her.
Sorry for drifting off topic slightly - I just came home from vacation and needed to vent. Back on track: George Anthony bought a gun to force Casey´s friends to reveal what they knew, then he planned on shooting himself. He knew/knows not a thing in my honest opinion.
And here exactly is the "punishment" for Casey. Her family will want to know what happened to little Caylee, she will not tell, and there will be this huge, HUGE problem for ever and ever between Casey and her family and between Casey and anyone else she might try to bond with. She will be profoundly lonely for the rest of her life!

Tell the truth, Casey, if you even know what that is. Do it for your own sake and for your beautiful little daughter Caylee. <3

 

[February]

George is a PAWN to create more benefits of a doubt.
Defense planted him as the possible "bad" man - George Agreed and acted and even involving himself to a relationship ( why Cindy A still accepted him? )
Defense succeeded... Look at alternate juror's words - they think GA is involved..

 

[February]

Why GA and not Cindy? I dont get it? Cindy lied on the stand just as much as GA. Cindy protected her daughter. LA even said that Cindy was the alpha in that family. So i dunno why GA was harped on. What about LA couldnt he be involved too??

Because they needed to say "Casey was abused when she's younger"... who will believe that Cindy will do that?..

 

[Pinksy]

It really makes one wonder. The police dropped the ball on this case. All these possibilities should have been investigated from the start.

In my opinion the scenario you laid out would have been a much stronger case then the one presented against KC.

The PT would have had motive, as well as other circumstantial evidence. (DUCt TAPE). GA could have searched "how to make" and "neck breaking" as well as he didn't start work until 3 in the afternoon. KC may not have been able to mix the chemicals, but George certainly could as he was former LE.

It would explain why he called the cops of the gas can break in. It would explain his early depositions, and would also explain the gas can scenario as well.

Where any of his phone records pulled? Did they verify his alibi from the 16th on? Wasn't he just starting a new job at the time of the 911 call?? Was he out of work and hiding his employment status from Cindy, and only KC could know.

All of this should have been investigated. This case needs to be reopened.

 

[Just Jayla]

The idea that George and/or Cindy and/or Lee were involved has long been discussed and sleuthed on this forum. The idea is definitely not a foriegn one and I think we mostly concluded that it did not mean KC did not murder her, but that CA/GA/LA would have been accessories after-the-fact.

 

[crucibelle]

If Caylee truly drowned in the pool... a big IF... The duct tape still doesn't make sense...

We have to trust now that a higher power will hold the true judgement.

The duct tape is what makes no sense to me in regards to an 'accident', as well. Here's one thing that bothers me, though -- I've never been able to actually SEE the duct tape and the placement on the skull. It has been described, but I would have a much clearer idea if I could view it, myself. I don't think those photos will ever be released, though.